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Thread: The other side of the Carry At Gunshows question

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I went to the Southern Longrifle Show today.
    Since some members here have complained that they can't carry loaded at shows, I thought I;d give the other side.

    This is a small annual show, about 45 tables. Since the promoters are friends and fellow builders, I know a little about what it took to put these on.

    Insurance is the number one problem. Very few companies wanted to insure it at all and the ones that did had extremely strict requirements.

    Even though this is a black powder event, most of us shoot and carry modern guns also. No one liked the rules that would have to be implemented to meet insurance guidelines so they incorporated and had faith in the people there behaving.

    There are no Police at the door and I expect if a police officer came by, he'd either buy a ticket or take a hike.
    There are no wire ties.

    What there are, are a building full of people who unload their guns voluntarily and are on the honor system.
    There's never been a problem at one of these shows and if someone did come in with a loaded weapon, the people attending the show would remove them.

    It is all insurance and if we as gun owners won't cooperate with the promoters, there won't be any more shows.

    After the show, I loaded up, went to Jamestown, then to the Jamestown Dig which is on National Park Property, with no issues at all.


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    I went to the Southern Longrifle Show today.
    Since some members here have complained that they can't carry loaded at shows, I thought I;d give the other side.

    This is a small annual show, about 45 tables. Since the promoters are friends and fellow builders, I know a little about what it took to put these on.

    Insurance is the number one problem. Very few companies wanted to insure it at all and the ones that did had extremely strict requirements.

    Even though this is a black powder event, most of us shoot and carry modern guns also. No one liked the rules that would have to be implemented to meet insurance guidelines so they incorporated and had faith in the people there behaving.

    There are no Police at the door and I expect if a police officer came by, he'd either buy a ticket or take a hike.
    There are no wire ties.

    What there are, are a building full of people who unload their guns voluntarily and are on the honor system.
    There's never been a problem at one of these shows and if someone did come in with a loaded weapon, the people attending the show would remove them.

    It is all insurance and if we as gun owners won't cooperate with the promoters, there won't be any more shows.

    After the show, I loaded up, went to Jamestown, then to the Jamestown Dig which is on National Park Property, with no issues at all.
    Well said Don
    James Reynolds

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Some people just don't think about gun safety, a customer pulled out his carry gun the other day to try out a holster. I told him to reholster it and his response was he didn't know it was the store policy not to handle loaded guns. My response was to ask him where was it a policy to allow handling of loaded firearms? OH never thought about it that way.

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    I'm curious, do you also voluntarily unload before going into a gun store or the shooting range?

    Seriously, I'm asking.



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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Mr. Y wrote:
    I'm curious, do you also voluntarily unload before going into a gun store or the shooting range?

    Seriously, I'm asking.


    The point being.........
    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Some people just don't think about gun safety, a customer pulled out his carry gun the other day to try out a holster. I told him to reholster it and his response was he didn't know it was the store policy not to handle loaded guns. My response was to ask him where was it a policy to allow handling of loaded firearms? OH never thought about it that way.
    If I know I'm going to have to unholster in a store for any reason, I'll unload it in my vehicle before entering, and just keep a loaded mag. I pop out the mag BEFORE unholstering, and after unholstering I check again to make sure the chamber is clear.

    I should probably just keep the mag in my pocket so there is no question, I think I'll do that from now on.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Mr. Y wrote:
    I'm curious, do you also voluntarily unload before going into a gun store or the shooting range?

    Seriously, I'm asking.



    The point being.........
    Yata hey
    The point?
    With due respect to Peter Nap, whom i have PM'd previously about this,I've only been able to uncover insurance requirements that require securing guns that are for sale. I got a copy of one from aTHR board member a few years back and I scoured it and there was no requirement at all to unload carry guns, nor was there a blanket requirement to unload.

    IOW, I am calling into question the veracityof this line about insurance requiring unloading carry guns. The attitude of some folks seems to be that if you dare walk into a gun show with a loaded gun GOD WILL SMITE THEE!

    It's kind of odd that probably 95% ofthe gun shops here have no such restriction and they manage to carry insurance. Putting that issue aside however, why do you (generally, not really asking this to a single person) voluntarily unload a gun absent some legal requirement, the extra gun handling itself is just as risky and secondly why do it at gun shows but not at gun shops & ranges where the same environmental factors exist?

    I do understand, some folks don't get it, I've had a student or two I had reservations about, and I've seen the result of an ND in a shop, done by an experienced competition shooter.

    You've got to seriously question a policy that comes right out of the Brady Campaign policyguide.

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    Insurance requirements are a product and/or policy of a given insurance company. they may come from local laws, safe operating practices from a given industry or trade and most of all comes from experiences within that particular company in regards to claims and/or lawsuits.

    Believe me it is much easier to say we just don;t write gun shows or whatever the product is that is being sold. remember when you may have gotten 2-3 tickets as a young driver? Perhaps you had to buy assigned risk insurance and it was expensive.

    There are no rights, privileges or guarantees when it comes to insurance. What you see(pay for) is what you get.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    All conditions and restrictions are not necessarily found within the insurance policy itself. The insuring company may ask what are your policies regarding_____ and how do you intend to control/enforce this? Based on their experience, investigation and/or promoters answers, they will establish a rate.

    It is not unlike when you apply for vehicle insurance, you give answers, they investigate (check w/DMV) and then quote you a rate.

    Now in either case, have an accident that changes the companies experience rating of you and see what happens to your rate. Have a number of such incidents and see if that company maybe even drops you - then see what kind of premium you'll have to pay with another insurer.

    So it may not be written in the policy - I don't know - but how a person/organization does business is part and parcel of the rates the are quoted.

    I know of a shooting range that was having trouble getting liability insurance - the NRA stepped in and said if you require all members of the range to have active NRA memberships, we will get you insurance. I don't think that is actually in the policy, but the range does now have liability coverage and the owner does require proof of NRA membership.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    A few years ago at a gun show in Pennsylvania, a man looking over a gun for sale accidentally shot someone. They speculate that someone placed a live cartridge into the gun prior to the man picking it up. After that occurred, the shows were strict in not allowing any guns inside with police at the door and undercover police inside. Soon after, the venue discontinued allowing gun shows altogether.

    I can see their point about allowing loaded ammunition inside.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_350823.html

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    A few years ago at a gun show in Pennsylvania, a man looking over a gun for sale accidentally shot someone. They speculate that someone placed a live cartridge into the gun prior to the man picking it up. After that occurred, the shows were strict in not allowing any guns inside with police at the door and undercover police inside. Soon after, the venue discontinued allowing gun shows altogether.

    I can see their point about allowing loaded ammunition inside.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_350823.html
    Aaah, excuse me - they SELL guns AND ammo inside.

    By the same thinking if gasoline was banned, there would be no more speeding, traffic deaths or get away cars.

    Course all LEOs might have to walk their beats.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    A few years ago at a gun show in Pennsylvania, a man looking over a gun for sale accidentally shot someone. They speculate that someone placed a live cartridge into the gun prior to the man picking it up. After that occurred, the shows were strict in not allowing any guns inside with police at the door and undercover police inside. Soon after, the venue discontinued allowing gun shows altogether.

    I can see their point about allowing loaded ammunition inside.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_350823.html
    Aaah, excuse me - they SELL guns AND ammo inside.

    By the same thinking if gasoline was banned, there would be no more speeding, traffic deaths or get away cars.

    Course all LEOs might have to walk their beats.

    Yata hey
    Nah, there are other options.




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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Will this be next?



    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Next thing you know, they'll be using horses. :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Next thing you know, they'll be using horses. :P

    Yata hey
    Never without AC



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    Virginia Tech Police have these things



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    the ODU security guards have a few of those "chariots". the ODU police themselves have one segway as well, not that they don't already drive their cars down the sidewalks in the middle of campus.

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    Regular Member bmartinxd45's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    Virginia Tech Police have these things

    That thing looks cool as . I want one to drive around my place, it doesn't even have to lights on it, just some cool flames.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    A few years ago at a gun show in Pennsylvania, a man looking over a gun for sale accidentally shot someone. They speculate that someone placed a live cartridge into the gun prior to the man picking it up. After that occurred, the shows were strict in not allowing any guns inside with police at the door and undercover police inside. Soon after, the venue discontinued allowing gun shows altogether.

    I can see their point about allowing loaded ammunition inside.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt.../s_350823.html
    Aaah, excuse me - they SELL guns AND ammo inside.

    By the same thinking if gasoline was banned, there would be no more speeding, traffic deaths or get away cars.

    Course all LEOs might have to walk their beats.

    Yata hey
    Well I believe all the new guns on display/sold must be locked with a cable lock and secured in a box until you leave the show. All ammo must also remain in a box as well. Of course it wouldn't be a fool-proof plan to stop someone who truly wants to add ammo, but it would cut down on accidental discharges.

    Hey! I walk my beat (weather permitting).

    I have yet to attend a gun show at Dulles Expomart... anyone ever attend? Worth going? Looking for a glock 27 (for work).


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    caveat emptor and all that.

    If you know what you're looking for and what the market will bear for any particular item, you can score a bargain. Particularly at the Dulles show because there are a plethora of vendors to choose from. From time to time you will run across a bargain you simply cannot beat by gunbroker / transfer, or local shop. Other times you cango and not find a single item you can't get cheaper on the 'net or at a local shop. I'd say it's cyclical, but I haven't been able to determine what the pattern is.

    So, do a little pre-show homework and figure out what you should be paying first.

    Same goes for ammo, reloading supplies,etc. Back before the run on ammo came into full "horde" mode, I scored some huges deals on mil-surp ammo, and some other stuff too. I actually half filled the bed of my truck with ammo cases. Alas... Not any more.

    Good luck, maybe you'll find something there.

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