CCW in the park

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I was hoping for an OC picnic in Babler State Park. This is from DNR:

I received your e-mail concerning concealed and open carry of firearms in Missouri State Parks. Thank you for your interest in Missouri State Parks and your desire to comply with park rules, regulations and state statutes.

Concealed carry is permitted in Missouri State Parks with the possession of a valid concealed carry permit. Open carry is also legal in Missouri State Parks; however, it is a violation of state law to carry a weapon, either concealed or open carry, into any building owned or occupied by any agency of the federal or state government (i.e., park office, visitor center, etc.).

Again, thank you for your interest in Missouri State Parks. Please let me know if you have additional questions, or if I can be of further service.

Sincerely,

John P. Hoover, Major
Division of State Parks
Park Ranger Program
573-751-5358
john.hoover@dnr.mo.gov

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The City of Wildwood does not allow for OC even in a "Missouri State Park".
From the Wildwood Police:

Mr. Perez,



I have found even though, through the email you provided from Major Hoover, the state does not regulate open carry within their parks. However, since the park falls within the city limits of Wildwood; Wildwood Ordinances do apply. Under Wildwood Ordinance, more specifically section 210.220, you may carry openly however; each individual wishing to do so, must first obtain written permission from the owner, lessee or person in charge of the premise. This document must be carried on their person at all times when on the property. It is also the discretion of the landowner to limit what type of firearm can be carried and must be identified in the letter. Ones failure to comply with this does constitute a violation and are subject to prosecution and seizure of their weapon.



Obviously, this doesn’t not affect those of your group, who possesses the “concealed carry” endorsement, and keep the weapon concealed and follow the terms of the endorsement.



Therefore, I would recommend you contact the parks superintendent and make arrangements with them to hold your gathering and obtain the written documentation.



I hope this answers your question as to the legality of the open carry within the park. As far as openly carrying within the city limits, I believe PO Brad Wood has covered that portion through corresponding emails earlier this month.



Please let me know if you should have any other questions or concerns.

Sgt. Jim Molden

Watch Supervisor \ Wildwood Precinct \ 17014 New College Ave. \ Wildwood MO 63040 \ Station 636-458-9194 \ Fax 636-458-4839

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I am inviting anyone with a desire to meet other pro-2nd amendment people to just bring their own what ever and have a get together, meet and chat.


To get to Babler State Park in Wildwood/St. Louis Co.

From I-44 you take highway 109 north to hwy BA and make a left. The Park is well marked.

From I-64 aka 40 you get off at Long Rd. and go to the "T". Make a right turn onto Wild Horse Creek Rd. At the stop sign, hwy 109 you make a left and go south. Hwy BA is on the right. The park entrance is on the right and well marked.



Turn into the park and go straight for 2.4 miles. The road to the right is the picnic area. There is a large swimming pool, no longer in use and two large ball fields. There are dozens of picnic tables and elevated bar-b-q pits with paved parking.



Dogs must be on a leash, no shooting in the park. There are bathroon facilities on site and drinking fountains if operable. Bring everything you need for a picnic! There are no stores or sales within the park, nearest retail is quite a bit away.



Date: Sat. April 17th with an alternate for April 18th in the event of rain.



Start time 10:00 - end by dark.


I hope many of you will enjoy a day in the park with a group of people that hold their 2nd amendment rights near to their hearts.

Please feel free to post if you will be going. I have invited a lot of folks. There are other firearms related activities else where the same day.... unfortunately.


[align=center][font="Times New Roman" FAMILY="SERIF" PT]Marc S. Perez[/font][font=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PT]
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correct me if i am wrong, but doesn't Major Hoovers' email essentially constitute "permission" to OC in Babler State Park? if it makes you feel better ask the Major to send that out on DNR letterhead. that, IMO, should suffice for the Wildwood guys.

just stay out of the outhouse with your sidearm and all should be ok.

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That sounds like permission to me. As long as you don't carry into a building it sounds all good. Count me in. With the park bing public property, I thought it would be legal any way. That was my interpretation of Weldwood's wacky laws. What was the previous email the the Sargent was referring to OC in Wildwood?

Doc

Wildwood's law

9. It shall be unlawful for any person carrying a firearm, air gun, archery device or crossbow to knowingly enter or go upon the premises or property of another, or to fire or discharge any firearm, air gun or archery device while on the premises or property of another without first having obtained the written permission from the owner, lessee or person in charge of such premises or property. The duly obtained written permission shall be carried in the personal possession of the person requesting and receiving such permission. This Subsection shall not apply to a person carrying, firing or discharging any firearm, air gun, archery device or crossbow while in the immediate presence of the owner, lessee or person in charge of the property or premises, or to the entry upon the premises for the sole purpose of obtaining written permission of the owner, lessee or person in charge of the property. This Subsection shall also not apply to a person with the sole purpose of carrying a concealed firearm and who is otherwise in compliance with Chapter 571, RSMo., regarding concealed carry endorsements.

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I could be wrong...but...a "State Park" regardless of where it is at is still owned by the State....

State law should prevail....

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These are the emails from the Wildwood Police:

Marc,

The ordinance/law comes from the City of Wildwood and we are tasked with enforcing it. My response was not taken from a particular opinion, but from the text of the law. I hope this helps.

As I mentioned, it doesn’t prohibit but identifies the requirement to do so.

Sgt. Jim Molden

Watch Supervisor \ Wildwood Precinct \ 17014 New College Ave. \ Wildwood MO 63040 \ Station 636-458-9194 \ Fax 636-458-4839



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Mr. Perez,



I have found even though, through the email you provided from Major Hoover, the state does not regulate open carry within their parks. However, since the park falls within the city limits of Wildwood; Wildwood Ordinances do apply. Under Wildwood Ordinance, more specifically section 210.220, you may carry openly however; each individual wishing to do so, must first obtain written permission from the owner, lessee or person in charge of the premise. This document must be carried on their person at all times when on the property. It is also the discretion of the landowner to limit what type of firearm can be carried and must be identified in the letter. Ones failure to comply with this does constitute a violation and are subject to prosecution and seizure of their weapon.



Obviously, this doesn’t not affect those of your group, who possesses the “concealed carry” endorsement, and keep the weapon concealed and follow the terms of the endorsement.



Therefore, I would recommend you contact the parks superintendant and make arrangements with them to hold your gathering and obtain the written documentation.



I hope this answers your question as to the legality of the open carry within the park. As far as openly carrying within the city limits, I believe PO Brad Wood has covered that portion through corresponding emails earlier this month.



Please let me know if you should have any other questions or concerns.

Sgt. Jim Molden

Watch Supervisor \ Wildwood Precinct \ 17014 New College Ave. \ Wildwood MO 63040 \ Station 636-458-9194 \ Fax 636-458-4839

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While I agree this is BS, they are LEOs of record for Babler State Park. The City of Wildwood has NO OC on public property, trust me. I do not think local rules should apply of public land, BWTF do I know. I've sent emails to legislators and asked for their help, we'll see. The legislation to remove the Statute that allows locals to prohibit OC is dead for this legilative session. I'm already working on next year and gaining support. The House Speaker is termed out this year and won't move the bill along to committe, so it just dies.

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Actually you can go to the bathrooms located throughout the park, where they stand alone. That is not where employees carry ouit their usual job duties on a day to day basis.



Oh by the way, I'm the guy who did the 2nd amendment rally at the gateway arch in STL of Feb. 27th 2010. 150 armed civilians 5 legislators and a flock of Park Police.

All went well, no one got shot and we got soem media, cool!

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mspgunner,

Well with the letters you've received I do do believe there is a good chance for a citation if you OC in Wildwood. Would it be legal, NO WAY. Would they do it any way, passably.The only law they have to try to harass OC is the law stating

"It shall be unlawful for any person carrying a firearm, air gun, archery device or crossbow to knowingly enter or go upon the premises or property of another........"

The state park is public property just like the streets and sidewalks. I think a 1st year lawyer would win that case easy. OH I wish I had the money to have a lawyer back me on this. They are abusing the law to push a personal agenda and that very much irritates me.

Doc

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sohighlyunlikely wrote:

mspgunner,

Well with the letters you've received I do do believe there is a good chance for a citation if you OC in Wildwood. Would it be legal, NO WAY. Would they do it any way, passably.The only law they have to try to harass OC is the law stating

"It shall be unlawful for any person carrying a firearm, air gun, archery device or crossbow to knowingly enter or go upon the premises or property of another........"

The state park is public property just like the streets and sidewalks. I think a 1st year lawyer would win that case easy. OH I wish I had the money to have a lawyer back me on this. They are abusing the law to push a personal agenda and that very much irritates me.

Doc

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Some one already asked me if I'd like to challenge in Court. NO WAY I want to go through that or the expense. If you want to OC and challange the LEOs, feel free. I'll go about it from the legislative point of view. If you want to go about it through the courts.... I'll cheer you on.

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One thing that really stinks is when you are in an area that allows CC but bans OC.

That works out fine in the winter time but with summer approaching, its pretty difficult to conceal a firearm when you are in shorts anda T-shirt.

Missouri really needs to streamline and simplify the laws to apply statewide.

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MK wrote:

One thing that really stinks is when you are in an area that allows CC but bans OC.

That works out fine in the winter time but with summer approaching, its pretty difficult to conceal a firearm when you are in shorts anda T-shirt.

Missouri really needs to streamline and simplify the laws to apply statewide.

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Wearing the "cover shirt" is hot, no sympathy from the anti-OC crowd. I think of my self walking where ever with a cover shirt, any one in the know is gonna know!