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Thread: Open Carry saved me last night.

  1. #1
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    Will try not to make this long but get all the facts in.
    Went on first of season motorcycle ride with pals yesterday. We rode all day
    fine San Juan Capistrano, Dana Point, Newport beach and back home to the
    IE. We enjoy taking all back roads and not hitting the freeway.
    I had just split up with my friends to head home it was night time
    around 8pm. I decided to pull off the road and put on my holster. Up until
    then I hadn't carried all day. I took off again about ten min later was on a back road in Chino going towards the 60 I was at a stop light and a car pulls up left of me.
    I always try to be really away of my surroundings and give myself an out if need be.
    My motorcycle is loud and I can't really hear anything while on it.
    The car has four guys in it. The front passenger says something and I don't understand what he is saying.... I ignore it... Then I hear louder from the back seat
    Hey hey "A" he said I like your motorcycle. I just did a little wave and said thanks and looked forward and then the one in front says.... No I SAID... I LIKE YOUR MOTORCYCLE and **** A You should let me ride it....Light changed I sped off. They caught up with me at the next light and this time stopped closer to my lane so they were really close.
    Hey Homie I like your bike.....**** I could ride it........... by now I am realizing they aren't going away....

    Next light I pull over more to the right side of the lane and really pay attention
    I can't wait for the light to turn green so I rev my engine like I am going to go
    when it turns green but stay there seeing what they do. They don't take the green they wait at it with me... So I take off fast and hit some side streets trying to lose them it is pitch black and they are following me. By now I am sure it is going to go bad and I didn't want it to be where I have no witnesses.
    I zig and zag in and out of streets trying to lose them and they are on my tail fast.
    I know the closer I get the freeway there will be a gas station because my GPS shows me all the gas stations so I head there....
    I speed to a gas station I am just seconds away I pull off park my bike
    and get off they pull up next to me and I turn to make sure they can see my holster.
    They say something and I don't remember the adrenaline was running high and I said...
    How is this going to end? I walk around my bike to put it in between them and me
    I had already released my thumb break. I hear something said like.... Go Beto he isn't worth it or something like that........

    In hindsight I know there are things I should have done different.... I have been running it in my mind over and over and over again..... It shook me up. It should have. This was my first instance where I may have had to defend my life........ I would have. I am glad I was carrying. I came home safe to my family.........

  2. #2
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    definitely a 'close encounter', glad it went well for you. definitely a valid reason to recite when people ask you about why you carry. it can happen any time, anywhere. you were ready. i wonder if the scum bunch went off, after leaving you, and found another victim?

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    After reading through your story, you handled your self very well and kept a level head, which in cases like this some people cannot. IMO you did the right thing by finding a place with witnesses and possibly cameras just in case something had gone either good or bad. If i was in your shoes i would hope i keep mine as well. This is exactly the point of open carry is that if necessary we can and will defend ourselves, personal defense is not just in your home as you just shown here it was you just riding your bike down the street and it escalated beyond that. And were all thankful that you can go home to your family after such an ordeal unscathed. This is something we prey we will never have to be part of but glad that we can and will protect ourselves if and when necessary.

    Carry on!
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
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    Glad you made it home ok.

    So this brings up a question in my mind. Would he have been justified in loading?

    12031 (j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
    carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
    otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
    person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
    immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
    necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in
    this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
    after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
    been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
    assistance.

    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...
    Stolen from ConditionThree because it can't be stressed enough.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    chewy352 wrote:
    Glad you made it home ok.

    So this brings up a question in my mind. Would he have been justified in loading?

    12031 (j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
    carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
    otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
    person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
    immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
    necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in
    this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
    after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
    been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
    assistance.
    For me, I would have been racked with the safety off ready to party.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

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    I thought of 12031 (j) right away but I also didn't want to be the agressor.

    They hadn't gotten out of the car yet. I wanted to make sure that I was covered

    had I needed to protect myself.

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    I too, would have been locked and loaded and ready to rock.

    Sir, you went above and beyond what you needed to do to protect yourself.1st, you ignored them. then you tried to evade them by leaving the sense. they then followed and gave chase. You then wereableto make itto a well lit and populated station.

    No more could have been asked by anyone.

    As soon as you got off the bike, you were able to lock and load.

    However, with all that said, you were able to defuse them, and still makle it home.

    YOU sir, did just fine.

  8. #8
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    Lock and load it. Presenting an unloaded firearm in such a situation gives the BGs in the car the opportunity to employ their loaded firearm and take you down before you will have time to draw, load, and defend yourself.

    The bike being between you and them was a good move and, had they drawn weapons,could have provided cover while you did lock, load, and engage.

    Always remember, it is far preferable to be tried by 12 than to be carried by 6.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    Remove the empty mag from the gun and hold a full mag in your hand behind you.

  10. #10
    Regular Member We-the-People's Avatar
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    The situation was definitely beyond the requirements of the law to lock and load. There is no reason not to take every lawful action which includes locking and loading.

    I'd have been locked, loaded, safety off, weapon at low ready,my audio recorder would have been running at a minimum from the second light. Depending on location (i.e. LE attitude and response expected) I may have placed a 911 call prior to coming to a complete stop but ONLY if that action didn't interfere with my ability to lock and load.
    "The Second Amendment speaks nothing to an unfettered Right". (Post # 100)
    "Restrictions are not infringements. Bans are infringements.--if it reaches beyond Reasonable bans". (Post # 103)
    Beretta92FSLady
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ons-Bill/page5

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nothing in any of my posts should be considered legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult a reputable attorney, not an internet forum.

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    [/quote]
    For me, I would have been racked with the safety off ready to party.[/quote]

    Hahaahha that's funny...

    But would you be considered brandishing if you had loaded up right in the parking lot?

    Yea the car took off, but what if some other person was scared and saw you lock and load and didn't know the car that drove off was following you..

    Sticky situation, but you handled it perfect IMO

  12. #12
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    That WAS a sticky situation, and I am in agreement with the majority...12031(j). I'd have been condition one because the element of surprise is already on my side (no pun intended). Good thing Beto was informed of his shortcomings and you got home safe.

    ETA: Good move placing the bike between you and what you don't like. Another barrier for the a**holes.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

  13. #13
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    I would have broken leather too. Probably racked and loaded too.

    What is one to do in such a situation. The antagonists continued to pursue, despite where you went. Demanded to (ride) take his motorcycle. Berto's friends were right, it wouldn't have been worth it. Outnumbered 4 to 1 by people of questionable intent. You fulfilled whatever duty there was to retreat.

    Everyone is just glad no event transpired and one of Berto's friends realized there was nothing to be gained by the confrontation on their part.

    Most people forget how vulnerable you are on a motorcycle. Take every defense you can!
    Gun control isn't about guns -- it is about control.

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    You should have reported an attempted theft in case someone else called 911.

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    What would of happend if the police had been called...

    And you were in a school zone!?

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    Hey Guit, you did good, you made it home, and that's all that matters in the end. Glad they wised up and left you alone. In hindsight, and not being there here's what I would have done, not necessarily all of them or in any particular order.

    • "Safely" run one or more red lights to evade.
    • Made a last-second turn, or even u-turn (though in this instance probably wouldn't have mattered)
    • Keep on going without stopping. Stopping and getting off to confront them should be an absolute last resort option. But obviously don't go home.
    • By the time you pulled over and dismounted, I would have concluded there was nothing else to do but draw my magazine at an absolute minimum, and more likelywould have loaded and racked the slide. See the Tueller drill messages in another thread and the youtube videos. IMO UOC'ers don't stand a chance against a full speed attackinside of21 feet. Though with them still in the car, you would have had an additional second or two. But by that time, your life and propertyis what matters most, not a potential brandishing charge.


    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    You did good sir !

    I was in a situation almost like that at one time.

    Back about the middle 1970's, the bar was closing, and a guy I met in the bar we decided to get a 6-pack and finnish it in the car. So we were drinkijng and talking at about 2:15 am in the empty parking lot. Then another car pulled 2 places over next to us, I thought "Oh shot", and 4 guys got out with a tire iron and one with a empty bottle, whay I didn't know is the guy I was drinking with had a 357 loaded and ready to go.

    He reached down under the seat pulled it out and steped out of the car and by his side just cycled the cylinder once, the other guys heard it and the tire iron went back in the car, and so did the empty bottle.

    A change in Attitude real quick ! One guy then ask if we had a beer to sell them we said no, so they got back in the car, but my friend said We will give you a couple of beers thought. and he did and they left.

    It could have been a bad situation, no cops around and they must have been eating dounuts at the 7-11 store ! :what:

    Robin47





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    Hey Guitrman1001,

    I am amazed with the armchair quarterbacking that I am reading while following this thread.

    Questions:

    1. Could you have drawn and loaded your weapon while operating your bike and trying to evade the Perps?

    2. Could the Perps have taken your action to load-up your weaponin the gas station parking lot as an ESCALATORY move and then drawn their weapons to defend themselves from you?

    3. While you were still operating your bike, didyou have time to create a "comprehensive" tactical plan, or were you too busy trying to maintain visual contact with the perps, too busy watching traffic, too busy tryingto evade the perps, and too busy trying to find a place with witnesses?

    My point is that the outcome was perfect. In that situation, you acted perfectly because the perps fled the scene without your bike.

    Multi-taskingwhile riding a bike can be difficult. Task-overload may have resulted in you wrecking your bike or losing your weapon. Darkness adds more variables to the situation.

    Your incident is further proof that"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" was divinely inspired.

    I hope I act as well as you did if I am ever put in your situation someday. I won't know until it happens. Sure, I have handled myself well in altercations before, but one mistake in your situation could have become your lastmistake.

    markm

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    yea good job man!

    i would have hit them with bear spray in the windows

  20. #20
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    I think you did fine.

    What part of Chino was this? I drive through there quite often.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

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    I think what you did was right. If you were able to slip the loaded mag in at some point while still evading.. on foot or on the bike.. I woulda done that. In my opinion, and to be on the safe side, using a firearm is THE last resort, and when that time comes... you'll know. Under the law you could have prolly have drawn, but most likely would have had to fight it in court. There have been times where I could have legally pulled my weapon, but I didn't becuase it wasn't the last resort.

  22. #22
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    i gotta agree!! they stayed in the car, they didnt show weapons, they had not really threatened you directly.
    i think you did exactly the rights things, at the right time, and in the right order.

    where is HANKT when we need her to accuse you of being a gun first guy?:what:
    even thou you really were really a gun last guy!:celebrate
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  23. #23
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    Glad it turned out well, but I think you took an necessary risk by hesitating to lock & load. If they were determined to do you harm, you can bet their guns would have been loaded when they pulled up.

    I don't think any reasonable person would have not been in fear for the life/safety in your situation. That is, I don't see a prosecutor having an easy job of convincing 12 of your "peers" that you acted in anything but self defense.

    The only other advice I would offer is: have the loaded firearm in one hand, and the 9-1-1 operator on the phone in the other hand.

    Relay location, license plate & other identifying info about the BGs, then identifying info about you (so the cops know you're the good guy when they show up), then clip the phone on your belt if needed so you have both hands free in case the need to defend yourself arises (with four assailants and a 10-round mag, reloading is almost certainly going to be needed).

    I've been there and know it's much easier to say it now than to do it in the heat of the moment... but you gotta train your brain to preserve your body.

    Again, I'm glad it turned out well. Another frightening example of how the "gun control" emboldens criminals... and at the same time a great example of how the mere presence of a firearm can be a deterrent.
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    It made really realize that
    1. Having a touch phone sucks in emergency's. There was no way I could
    have pushed the half a million buttons to unlock the phone and dial if need be with gloves on.... Going to change that get a new phone that has buttons.

    2. I need to have 911 programed in as a one touch dial number... This would have allowed me to press just one button and have 911 called.

    3. NEED TO PRACTICE CARRYING ON MOTORCYCLE MORE!

    Guit

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    Imagine what a Brady member would have done in that situation... "ok, what was I taught? Give them my keys, give them my wallet, when they drive away, call 911 from a safe place!"

    Gj, and they make gloves with metal dots on them to let you use your touch phone.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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