Open Carry saved me last night.

crash5150 · Mar 28, 2010

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I think what you did was right. If you were able to slip the loaded mag in at some point while still evading.. on foot or on the bike.. I woulda done that. In my opinion, and to be on the safe side, using a firearm is THE last resort, and when that time comes... you'll know. Under the law you could have prolly have drawn, but most likely would have had to fight it in court. There have been times where I could have legally pulled my weapon, but I didn't becuase it wasn't the last resort.

1245A Defender · Mar 28, 2010

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i gotta agree!! they stayed in the car, they didnt show weapons, they had not really threatened you directly.
i think you did exactly the rights things, at the right time, and in the right order.

where is HANKT when we need her to accuse you of being a gun first guy?:what:
even thou you really were really a gun last guy!:celebrate

CA_Libertarian · Mar 29, 2010

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Glad it turned out well, but I think you took an necessary risk by hesitating to lock & load. If they were determined to do you harm, you can bet their guns would have been loaded when they pulled up.

I don't think any reasonable person would have not been in fear for the life/safety in your situation. That is, I don't see a prosecutor having an easy job of convincing 12 of your "peers" that you acted in anything but self defense.

The only other advice I would offer is: have the loaded firearm in one hand, and the 9-1-1 operator on the phone in the other hand.

Relay location, license plate & other identifying info about the BGs, then identifying info about you (so the cops know you're the good guy when they show up), then clip the phone on your belt if needed so you have both hands free in case the need to defend yourself arises (with four assailants and a 10-round mag, reloading is almost certainly going to be needed).

I've been there and know it's much easier to say it now than to do it in the heat of the moment... but you gotta train your brain to preserve your body.

Again, I'm glad it turned out well. Another frightening example of how the "gun control" emboldens criminals... and at the same time a great example of how the mere presence of a firearm can be a deterrent.

guitrman1001 · Mar 29, 2010

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It made really realize that
1. Having a touch phone sucks in emergency's. There was no way I could
have pushed the half a million buttons to unlock the phone and dial if need be with gloves on.... Going to change that get a new phone that has buttons.

2. I need to have 911 programed in as a one touch dial number... This would have allowed me to press just one button and have 911 called.

3. NEED TO PRACTICE CARRYING ON MOTORCYCLE MORE!

Guit

dirtykoala · Mar 29, 2010

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Imagine what a Brady member would have done in that situation... "ok, what was I taught? Give them my keys, give them my wallet, when they drive away, call 911 from a safe place!"

Gj, and they make gloves with metal dots on them to let you use your touch phone.

Wc · Mar 29, 2010

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CA_Libertarian wrote:

Glad it turned out well, but I think you took an necessary risk by hesitating to lock & load. If they were determined to do you harm, you can bet their guns would have been loaded when they pulled up.

I don't think any reasonable person would have not been in fear for the life/safety in your situation. That is, I don't see a prosecutor having an easy job of convincing 12 of your "peers" that you acted in anything but self defense.

The only other advice I would offer is: have the loaded firearm in one hand, and the 9-1-1 operator on the phone in the other hand.

Relay location, license plate & other identifying info about the BGs, then identifying info about you (so the cops know you're the good guy when they show up), then clip the phone on your belt if needed so you have both hands free in case the need to defend yourself arises (with four assailants and a 10-round mag, reloading is almost certainly going to be needed).

I've been there and know it's much easier to say it now than to do it in the heat of the moment... but you gotta train your brain to preserve your body.

Again, I'm glad it turned out well. Another frightening example of how the "gun control" emboldens criminals... and at the same time a great example of how the mere presence of a firearm can be a deterrent.

Nice, now, how would the deaf person is doing your ways:question:

CA_Libertarian · Mar 29, 2010

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dirtykoala wrote:

Imagine what a Brady member would have done in that situation... "ok, what was I taught? Give them my keys, give them my wallet, when they drive away, call 911 from a safe place!"

Gj, and they make gloves with metal dots on them to let you use your touch phone.

They also make scissors. My dad has a pair of mechanic's work gloves with one finger tip cut off so he can push the "answer" button on his phone in a reasonable amount of time.

(Actually, the gloves are designed like that. For those tight angles so you can feel where the nut/bolt is and line up your wrench/socket.

Might also be a good idea to cut the tip off the glove's trigger finger... Would suck to get your glove hung up in the trigger guard when the when the shit is hitting the fan. (Otherwise I'll assume you have practiced live fire drills with your gloves on to make sure it's not an issue.)

Ninja_Commando · Mar 30, 2010

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Newbie question:
I ride a motorcycle,not as often as I used too. I ride a Ninja ZX10R. Can UOC like I would if I was not on a motorcycle?

guitrman1001 · Mar 31, 2010

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Yes Ninja you can I do all the time you have to still be aware
of all the school zones you may pass.

Guit

CA_Libertarian · Apr 1, 2010

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Ninja_Commando wrote:

Newbie question:
I ride a motorcycle,not as often as I used too. I ride a Ninja ZX10R. Can UOC like I would if I was not on a motorcycle?

The laws are the same whether riding/driving or walking down the side of the road. But there's a ton to know before you do any of those.

www.californiaopencarry.org is a great place to start.

BigTOC · Apr 14, 2010

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Thank God you carry and have good sence.

F R E E S O U L .CA · May 21, 2010

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Good thing we can still open carry. When I first heard about the school zone thing i thought "well I guess that makes sense..." but, upon closer examination I have discovered that the law poses more of a threat to the people than, safty to children. In fact, It may be quite difficult to ride a motorcycle 1 entire day, without passing 1 school unwittingly- I walked all day on Monday and passed three schools, after passing each one i thought "gosh, if I was open carrying would I have to stop, draw my 1911 and lock it in a box, put it in my pack, then another thousand feet past the school, I remove it from my locked box and re-holster it? WTF... Just to go to the?

How do we fix that law??? That thing is BS.
They are well designed and cleverly positioned laws, that trip us at our cause. Possibly designed to keep us from advancing at all. we gotta pull it down if we want peace. The people who wrote those laws arnt going to deliver any peace to us. We need to work to abolish laws that work contrary to peace in our communities.

We need to be organized and dismantle this mess of laws...:uhoh:

Joe Cool

1245A Defender · May 22, 2010

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I walked all day on Monday and passed three schools, after passing each one i thought "gosh, if I was open carrying would I have to stop, draw my 1911 and lock it in a box, put it in my pack, then another thousand feet past the school, I remove it from my locked box and re-holster it? WTF

by the time you saw the school,,, you were already breaking the GFSZ law, and were guilty of that crime.

the law is so totally bogus and needs to be nullified, it protects no one, and makes the law abiding, criminals!!

its way too easy for the cops to use it against us, but virtually impossible to comply with!!

MK · May 22, 2010

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dirtykoala wrote:

Imagine what a Brady member would have done in that situation... "ok, what was I taught? Give them my keys, give them my wallet, when they drive away, call 911 from a safe place!"

You forgot,

Put pressure on the wound to help control the bleeding.

oc4ever · May 22, 2010

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I see this two ways. First you have the legal right to defend yourself and your property.......that goes without dispute....but......

But what is more important?

You should only be concerned about defending yourself from harm. A motorcycle is replaceable. Your decision to go to a public well lighted area was very good, I think I would have headed inside the store for the 911 call first, got yourself ready, loaded, to take whatever action after that. Your are then completely covered under the self defense laws until the police arrive. I would not get into a shooting over a motorcycle, legal or not, it is just property. However, if the 4 guys wanted a piece of you(not the motorcycle) deadly force is a legal option, even if they are not armed. The law does not require you take a beating by a group of men before defending yourself.

You may only have seconds at this point to prevent harm , and the LEOs are a few minutes away....The best solution is flight from the situation of danger, instead of standing your ground against 4 men. No one gets hurt that way. If you need to pull the weapon for self defense, you damn well better be ready to watch your life change forever, because the the legal, financial, and emotional consequences could be huge. The good news is you will be around, and hopefully uninjured. The BG's will be worm food.

markm · May 22, 2010

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oc4ever wrote:

I see this two ways. First you have the legal right to defend yourself and your property.......that goes without dispute....but......

But what is more important?

You should only be concerned about defending yourself from harm. A motorcycle is replaceable. Your decision to go to a public well lighted area was very good, I think I would have headed inside the store for the 911 call first, got yourself ready, loaded, to take whatever action after that. Your are then completely covered under the self defense laws until the police arrive. I would not get into a shooting over a motorcycle, legal or not, it is just property. However, if the 4 guys wanted a piece of you(not the motorcycle) deadly force is a legal option, even if they are not armed. The law does not require you take a beating by a group of men before defending yourself.

You may only have seconds at this point to prevent harm , and the LEOs are a few minutes away....The best solution is flight from the situation of danger, instead of standing your ground against 4 men. No one gets hurt that way. If you need to pull the weapon for self defense, you damn well better be ready to watch your life change forever, because the the legal, financial, and emotional consequences could be huge. The good news is you will be around, and hopefully uninjured. The BG's will be worm food.

+1111111111111111

oc4ever, that was really good, and you are right. Seeking refuge in the store would have been the best choice, physically and legally.

markm

Mike Hawk · May 23, 2010

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Well done man. Glad you made it out O.K.

coolusername2007 · May 24, 2010

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1245A Defender wrote:

I walked all day on Monday and passed three schools, after passing each one i thought "gosh, if I was open carrying would I have to stop, draw my 1911 and lock it in a box, put it in my pack, then another thousand feet past the school, I remove it from my locked box and re-holster it? WTF

by the time you saw the school,,, you were already breaking the GFSZ law, and were guilty of that crime.

the law is so totally bogus and needs to be nullified, it protects no one, and makes the law abiding, criminals!!

its way too easy for the cops to use it against us, but virtually impossible to comply with!!

Who says you will even see the school? I could walk a bunch of different streets in my neighborhood and never lay eyes on any school, yet easily be within the 1000' VDZ (victim disarmament zone). You could literally be blocks away where only magic bullets could reach the school and still be guilty of this absurd andobscene penal code.

Diesel-n-Lead · May 25, 2010

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oc4ever wrote:

I see this two ways. First you have the legal right to defend yourself and your property.......that goes without dispute....but......

But what is more important?

You should only be concerned about defending yourself from harm. A motorcycle is replaceable. Your decision to go to a public well lighted area was very good, I think I would have headed inside the store for the 911 call first, got yourself ready, loaded, to take whatever action after that. Your are then completely covered under the self defense laws until the police arrive. I would not get into a shooting over a motorcycle, legal or not, it is just property. However, if the 4 guys wanted a piece of you(not the motorcycle) deadly force is a legal option, even if they are not armed. The law does not require you take a beating by a group of men before defending yourself.

You may only have seconds at this point to prevent harm , and the LEOs are a few minutes away....The best solution is flight from the situation of danger, instead of standing your ground against 4 men. No one gets hurt that way. If you need to pull the weapon for self defense, you damn well better be ready to watch your life change forever, because the the legal, financial, and emotional consequences could be huge. The good news is you will be around, and hopefully uninjured. The BG's will be worm food.

Sounds to me like they were close enough to him that entering the store would have meant turning his back to the car, and don't forget that alot of gas stations lock their doors after dark. Running up to a locked door would really suck in this situation. I always advocate an open line to 911 during an encounter like this but it's not always practical, as demonstrated here.After all he did to evade them I can't say that he did anything wrong by his account of his actions. Luckily the guys left and the situation didn't advance to the next level. Now had they exited their car and attempted to take the bike without posing any direct threat to Guitarman, yes lethal force would NOT have been justified. If, however, they exited the vehicle and advanced toward him, then all bets are off. You can't possibly know their intent and given their behavior self preservation would dictate assuming, and being prepared for,the worst.

Really makes you think about what a disadvantage UOC puts us at compared to LOC. If all four of the guys had jumped out of the car with guns at close range we might be reading about this in the paper.

Open Carry saved me last night.

crash5150

Regular Member

1245A Defender

Regular Member

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

guitrman1001

Regular Member

dirtykoala

Regular Member

Wc

Regular Member

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

Ninja_Commando

Regular Member

guitrman1001

Regular Member

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher

BigTOC

Regular Member

F R E E S O U L .CA

Regular Member

1245A Defender

Regular Member

MK

Regular Member

oc4ever

Regular Member

markm

New member

Mike Hawk

New member

coolusername2007

Regular Member

Diesel-n-Lead

Regular Member