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Thread: Is there an "Open Carry VA" type group in VA?

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    I just watched a YouTube video of an open carrier in Michigan being pulled over and detained and harassed by cops who thought it was illegal for him to carry openly because he had a CCW. Unbelievable. Anyway, the video was posted by a group called "Michigan Open Carry, Inc." Apparently, they are a group that exists solely to promote open carry in their state and to organize regular open carry events to test the state's laws and educate the public and police about their right to carry openly. I've seen a lot of ad hoc postings for various OC dinners, etc. on this forum, but is there an actual organization in VA dedicated just to promoting open carry in a more systematic way, like with regular OC events (not just dinners at OC friendly restaurants) in Arlington, Fairfax, etc. (where cops and the public *really* don't know OC is legal)?

    Ben
    Arlington, VA

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    Burlyman78 wrote:
    ...like with regular OC events (not just dinners at OC friendly restaurants) in Arlington, Fairfax, etc. (where cops and the public *really* don't know OC is legal)?
    A
    I beg to differ. In my opinion, Fairfax County cops are some of the most well educated LEO's in the state when it comes to OC. And from the few who I have spoken with, they are very supportive of OC.

    I think this forum is pretty much what you are in search of. Have you checked out VCDL?

    http://vcdl.org/

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well we really don't need one so much as the path has been beaten down somewhat already. If you look at the early members of OCDO you will find that the majority of them are from Virginia and are a subset of the very effective Virginia Citizens Defense League which doesn't promote OC or CC, but has stood for all legal forms of carry and has been very helpful in situations over the years.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    What everyone said already.

    Keep an eye on the posts here and you'll see an open carry dinner in your area.
    These small groups are the most effective means you have to keep in touch with the big picture.

    Join VCDL.
    With one or two exceptions, they are great people.

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    Whitlows in Arlington has welcomed us more than once.

    And I've OCd all over the place in Ffx County--as have others.

    Heck, I was OCing at Amphoras in Vienna and sat next to a Vienna cop, who I KNOW saw me OCing. Not a word was said, but he was busy with his dessert.

    And we do not always pick OC-friendly places. We just pick places.

    We have been denied service in some of them (maybe 5-6 times total for me personally), and went to others that wanted our business.

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    Burlyman78 wrote:
    SNIP[the OP]


    The whole forum is the VA Open Carry group. The whole thing started right here inVirginia (not disrespectto those few hardy souls whowere OCing before OCDO came along).
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Burlyman78 wrote:
    SNIP[the OP]


    (not disrespectto those few hardy souls whowere OCing before OCDO came along).
    Darn...you had to throw that in after I'd already gotten to the top of my soapbox

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    hunter45 wrote:
    Burlyman78 wrote:
    ...like with regular OC events (not just dinners at OC friendly restaurants) in Arlington, Fairfax, etc. (where cops and the public *really* don't know OC is legal)?
    A
    I beg to differ. In my opinion, Fairfax County cops are some of the most well educated LEO's in the state when it comes to OC. And from the few who I have spoken with, they are very supportive of OC.

    I think this forum is pretty much what you are in search of. Have you checked out VCDL?

    http://vcdl.org/
    Yeah I'll agree with that. Though a couple people have had bad experiences with FCPD, all of mine have been either neutral (a friendly nod) or very positive (a good conversation with them being very supportive).

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    I'm sure most of the NOVA police agencies give specific training to LEOs regarding OC. Most NOVA police agencies are very competitive to get into, thus resulting in somewhat higher standards in recruitment. There really shouldn't be any excuse for them not to know that OC is legal. VCDL is the only VA based pro gun group I know of.

    +1 to Hunter45 and Nova

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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    I'm sure most of the NOVA police agencies give specific training to LEOs regarding OC.* Most NOVA police agencies are very competitive to get into, thus resulting in somewhat higher standards in recruitment.* There really shouldn't be any excuse for them not to know that OC is legal.* VCDL is the only VA based pro gun group I know of.

    +1 to Hunter45 and Nova
    Which agency do you work for? I was scheduled to take the written exam next month for Fairfax County, but I withdrew my application last week. I'm going to wait until I get closer to finishing school and then apply again.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    hunter45 wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    I'm sure most of the NOVA police agencies give specific training to LEOs regarding OC. Most NOVA police agencies are very competitive to get into, thus resulting in somewhat higher standards in recruitment. There really shouldn't be any excuse for them not to know that OC is legal. VCDL is the only VA based pro gun group I know of.

    +1 to Hunter45 and Nova
    Which agency do you work for? I was scheduled to take the written exam next month for Fairfax County, but I withdrew my application last week. I'm going to wait until I get closer to finishing school and then apply again.
    Suggest response by PM.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Thanks for the responses. The thing I like about this Open Carry Michigan group is that a.) they apparently formed through this forum (only the Michigan page), and b.) they are taking a systematic approach to holding open carry events in places that may not be "OC friendly" to educate police and the public. I get that some of us on here are already doing that, and that's great. But that's not all the Michigan group is doing. I also like that they're using their website to educate gun owners about how to OC and handle police encounters while OCing. Additionally, I like that they're making a point of videotaping all their police encounters or FOIAing police dash cam video from OC traffic stops and putting it up on YouTube. This is the website (I know this is a Michigan link, but I'm thinking it could be a model for a VA group):

    http://www.michiganopencarry.org/

    Another thought I had was: if we set up an organization like this in VA, one option might be to charge an annual membership fee (such as $30.00), and then keep all the membership dues in a dedicated account and use those to fund lawsuits against police departments in VA that violate our rights during traffic stops, on-street encounters while OCing, etc. Maybe we could have some criteria for cases that would be eligible for funds and people could petition the organization if they felt they had been mistreated, detained unlawfully, or charged with a crime unlawfully. Maybe model this part of the organization on the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, which does the same thing, only for defending people who have actually used their firearm in lawful self-defense. Any thoughts, particularly on this last idea?

    Ben
    Arlington, VA

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    hunter45 wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    I'm sure most of the NOVA police agencies give specific training to LEOs regarding OC. Most NOVA police agencies are very competitive to get into, thus resulting in somewhat higher standards in recruitment. There really shouldn't be any excuse for them not to know that OC is legal. VCDL is the only VA based pro gun group I know of.

    +1 to Hunter45 and Nova
    Which agency do you work for? I was scheduled to take the written exam next month for Fairfax County, but I withdrew my application last week. I'm going to wait until I get closer to finishing school and then apply again.
    I would rather not announce what agency I work for due to the fact that I am restricted in what I can speak about publicly that might influence what people think is the viewpoint of my agency. Although, I know the people on this site are smart enough to know that there are many different views and opinions in a police department, and I can only offer my view and post laws.

    How much longer do you have in school? The application process is very lengthy (especially in this area) so I encourage you to apply early your senior year. It's a tough job market, so I also encourage you to apply to several departments in the area as well. If you need any help or have any questions, PM me. Good luck, it's a good job. Do a ride along if you get the chance.

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    Burlyman78 wrote:
    Thanks for the responses. The thing I like about this Open Carry Michigan group is that a.) they apparently formed through this forum (only the Michigan page), and b.) they are taking a systematic approach to holding open carry events in places that may not be "OC friendly" to educate police and the public. I get that some of us on here are already doing that, and that's great. But that's not all the Michigan group is doing. I also like that they're using their website to educate gun owners about how to OC and handle police encounters while OCing. Additionally, I like that they're making a point of videotaping all their police encounters or FOIAing police dash cam video from OC traffic stops and putting it up on YouTube. This is the website (I know this is a Michigan link, but I'm thinking it could be a model for a VA group):

    http://www.michiganopencarry.org/

    Another thought I had was: if we set up an organization like this in VA, one option might be to charge an annual membership fee (such as $30.00), and then keep all the membership dues in a dedicated account and use those to fund lawsuits against police departments in VA that violate our rights during traffic stops, on-street encounters while OCing, etc. Maybe we could have some criteria for cases that would be eligible for funds and people could petition the organization if they felt they had been mistreated, detained unlawfully, or charged with a crime unlawfully. Maybe model this part of the organization on the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, which does the same thing, only for defending people who have actually used their firearm in lawful self-defense. Any thoughts, particularly on this last idea?

    Ben
    Arlington, VA

    Okay this is going to sound snippy, but did you even read the responses people sent you? That is EXACTLY what this forum does and what VCDL does. When we hear of someone in the news who has had legal trouble with OCing, someone usually sets up a paypal account for members to provide funds. VCDL holds events such as Lobby Day where we all get together to go to our General Assembly and tell our senators what bills we want them to support and why and what bills we want killed and why. We usually choose not to go to places we knowingly can not OC because, as many call it here, it's like beating a dead horse. We choose to go out our lives, peacefully open carrying doing normal things. Grocery store, pharmacy, Victoria's Secret, Petsmart, gas station, etc. We hold large group events like picnics, every area in VA (NoVa, VaBeach, Richmond, etc) holds a MONTHLY dinner meeting. In Richmond we have weekly breakfasts. Many of us know each other outside of OCDO and do things together.

    No offense to how they do it in Michigan, but many of us choose to go out educating people peacefully, not in your face rowdy disruptive ways. That is not always the most effective way of education, as people do not like having things shoved down their throats. Being out somewhere and having someone notice you are carrying, rather than (figuratively) shouting about it, you get a much more positive reaction and don't get labeled a trouble maker. Our quiet encounters have effected much change in our area. Search the forum for posts from GrapeShot, PeterNap and Skidmark especially. They are three of our strongest fighters.

    Welcome to the forums and Open Carrying in Virginia, I recommend you read around the site a bit more to find more about who we are and what we do. The president of VCDL is also a member here, make sure you sign up for their VCDL alerts and join them, membership is $25.


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