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Thread: Request from School to bring in historic firearms

  1. #1
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    My son's teacher found out during a discussion that I have a collection of WWII firearms. The class is currently studying WWII in History. She has requested that I bring in the firearms to show her class and give a short presentation on them. She was ignorant of the school zone law and didn't realize it existed. I told her about it and also told her that she had to get permission from the principal before I would even consider it. The principal is a friend of mine and I have little or no doubt he would allow the presentation to take place. I am guessing he would want to see it, too.

    Am I opening myself up to a felony charge? Is there anyone that can give me permission me to uncase the firearms on school premises, such as local LEO?

    I know this would be an interesting test case to fight this stupid law, but I am not interested in being a test case right now.

    I also realize that to be perfectly isolated from any possibility of charges, I should just tell the teacher, "No", and be done with it, but some of the most important lessons of WWII could be brought to the surface during this presentation and I would love to do it.

    Your thoughts.

    Fast Ed

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    I have not yet served on my school board but I would expect you to need a contract with the school board that actually owns and operates the school.

    948.605 Gun−free school zones.
    (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
    (a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    (ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing
    gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any
    starter pistol.
    (am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    (b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    (c) “School zone” means any of the following:
    1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
    (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE.
    (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is
    guilty of a Class I felony.
    (b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm:

    1. On private property not part of school grounds;
    2. If the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so
    by a political subdivision of the state or bureau of alcohol, tobacco
    and firearms in which political subdivision the school zone is
    located, and the law of the political subdivision requires that,
    before an individual may obtain such a license, the law enforcement
    authorities of the political subdivision must verify that the
    individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
    3. That is not loaded and is:
    a. Encased; or
    b. In a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    4. By an individual for use in a program approved by a school
    in the school zone;
    5. By an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
    between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
    employer of the individual;

    6. By a law enforcement officer or state−certified commission
    warden acting in his or her official capacity; or
    7. That is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
    traversing school grounds for the purpose of gaining access to
    public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
    grounds is authorized by school authorities.
    8. By a person who is legally hunting in a school forest if the
    school board has decided that hunting may be allowed in the
    school forest under s. 120.13 (38).

  3. #3
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    If the school officials gives you the go-ahead you are good to go. As long as it is for a school approved function, such as the presentation, you are fine.

    I never realized before how much I did not have to pay attention to the GFSZ with my last job. I had an AR-15 with me for work always, even while on school grounds. It was nice to be a government employee required to have the rifle.

  4. #4
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Fast Ed wrote:
    My son's teacher found out during a discussion that I have a collection of WWII firearms. The class is currently studying WWII in History. She has requested that I bring in the firearms to show her class and give a short presentation on them. She was ignorant of the school zone law and didn't realize it existed. I told her about it and also told her that she had to get permission from the principal before I would even consider it. The principal is a friend of mine and I have little or no doubt he would allow the presentation to take place. I am guessing he would want to see it, too.

    Am I opening myself up to a felony charge? Is there anyone that can give me permission me to uncase the firearms on school premises, such as local LEO?

    I know this would be an interesting test case to fight this stupid law, but I am not interested in being a test case right now.

    I also realize that to be perfectly isolated from any possibility of charges, I should just tell the teacher, "No", and be done with it, but some of the most important lessons of WWII could be brought to the surface during this presentation and I would love to do it.

    Your thoughts.

    Fast Ed
    As Doug pointed out, you can do this with out any felony. If I were you, I would just get the principal to put the date and request down on paper, just to cover your butt.

  5. #5
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    See number 4 in the statute Doug posted, that's where it talks about approved activities.

  6. #6
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    As a Physics teacher, I brought in my 1911A1, disassembled it in front of my classes and used dummy ammunition to show how the recoil system works. The concept was momentum and recoil. Most of the students were quite interested and I had only one student in 20+ yrs of doing that demonstration who "freaked out" and had to leave the room. (Which is much less than biology students who leave the class during videos on open heart surgery or natural childbirth). (She was ok after talking to her later.) Sometimes if the weather and time permitted, I took the students outside and shot the gun into a safe backstop so they could see how it functioned and what the recoil was really like - not the TV and movie lies. And, I had a video of that to show when the weather and time were not cooperating.

    All I did was to clear the activity through the principal and the school liasion
    officer and of course kept the gun locked up when it wasn't in my hands.

    I never had any repercussions and the students enjoyed the experiences. Go for it!

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Fast Ed wrote:
    My son's teacher found out during a discussion that I have a collection of WWII firearms. The class is currently studying WWII in History. She has requested that I bring in the firearms to show her class and give a short presentation on them. She was ignorant of the school zone law and didn't realize it existed. I told her about it and also told her that she had to get permission from the principal before I would even consider it. The principal is a friend of mine and I have little or no doubt he would allow the presentation to take place. I am guessing he would want to see it, too.

    Am I opening myself up to a felony charge? Is there anyone that can give me permission me to uncase the firearms on school premises, such as local LEO?

    I know this would be an interesting test case to fight this stupid law, but I am not interested in being a test case right now.

    I also realize that to be perfectly isolated from any possibility of charges, I should just tell the teacher, "No", and be done with it, but some of the most important lessons of WWII could be brought to the surface during this presentation and I would love to do it.

    Your thoughts.

    Fast Ed
    Sir:

    I am a Hunter Safety Course Instructor for the state of Wisconsin. I take 15 or more firearms in the local High School twice a year.

    Permission from the school should be sufficient, but I recommend asking the school to inform local LEO of this as well just in case some uninformed parent were to call 911.

    Remember to keep them encased except when in the instructional area, and do not bring any LIVE rounds.

    PLEASE take the teacher up on this, as it is a way to present firearms in a light other than "the evening news."



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    A parent is not even an employee. Please be careful I-ANAL and I am cowardly.

    http://www.waukesha.k12.wi.us/Librar...ing/5131.7.pdf

    It is the policy of the School District of Waukesha to provide a safe and healthy environment for all persons on its premises or attending any of its activities or functions. Possession, use or storage of a weapon on school property, on school vehicles, or at any school-related event is prohibited.
    [ ... ]
    Any student or employee wishing to bring an item to school or on school grounds for any educational, demonstration or teaching purposes must have prior administrative approval.

  9. #9
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    On a lighter but still cautionary note...(sorry, I was unable to find a national news story on a teacher causing controversy)

    http://www.upc-online.org/alerts/021007hatchet.html

    On September 20, a Washington Island, WI teacher decapitated a chicken with a hatchet in front of his 7th and 8th graders on school property. The teacher, Steve Waldron, told the Green Bay Press-Gazette his killing was "a vivid and dramatic way of making the connection between the way we get our food and the fact that things [sic] die for us to get food." He said it got kids "to think about how the animal is treated before it [sic] ends up on their plate." He said his killing was "part of coursework intended to spell out the differences between the way chickens and other animals are raised and butchered on family farms versus large industrial farms."

    Larry Kahlscheuer, the Washington Island School Board President, told the newspaper the hatchet did not qualify as a weapon, except "in the sense that a screwdriver or a hammer might." He said he knows of "no [school] district rule against killing for instructional purposes." He said Steve Waldron was "someone who knows how to deal with life and death in a most respectful manner."

    The killing of the chicken led parent Kelly Jorgenson to tell the school "if "killing is allowed on school grounds, we're pulling our kids out."

  10. #10
    McX
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    well, there goes biology class, no more choppin up the froggies to see what makes them tick.

  11. #11
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    Thanks to all for the information. I am glad my kids go to a private school, where the teacher actually requested the firearm demonstration. I hope this will be a great opportunity for me and for the kids.

    Fast Ed


    :celebrate

  12. #12
    McX
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    go get 'em ed, maybe bring a few opencarry pamphlets, stuffed with wisconsincarry membership apps, hand them out and tell the kids; give this to your mom and dad to read. great opportunity for you, rare that anyone gets invited to show off a firearm anywhere these days.

  13. #13
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    When I was in grade schoolthe band teacher brought in a bunch of civil war firearms and we even went into the courtyard and fired them.

    A few years later another teacher brought in aselect-fire M-16 for a military history class (he was some higher ranking officer in the reserves) and we took that one out and fired it too. All with blanks of course. And this was in the Grafton Public School system!

  14. #14
    McX
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    back in the day, we used to shoot skeet out the gym doors into the field by the school, that was on the edge of town. only part of gym class i liked.

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