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Thread: Don't equate average gun owners with Michigan suspects

  1. #1
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    Don't equate Michigan suspects with typical law-abiding gun owners



    Beware of attempts by gun prohibitionists to smear all gun owners with the broad brush of 'militia extremist'

    Militia group slammed door in suspects' faces.


    http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d29-Dont-confuse-MI-suspects-with-lawabiding-gun-owners


    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/ydsj85t

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Don't equate Michigan suspects with typical law-abiding gun owners



    Beware of attempts by gun prohibitionists to smear all gun owners with the broad brush of 'militia extremist'

    Militia group slammed door in suspects' faces.


    http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d29-Dont-confuse-MI-suspects-with-lawabiding-gun-owners


    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/ydsj85t
    slammed the door is right, Who wants that kind of heat.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    I believe the MI folks were neither militian or gun rights advocates. They were nutters.

    Glock34 wrote:
    Dave Workman wrote:
    Don't equate Michigan suspects with typical law-abiding gun owners



    Beware of attempts by gun prohibitionists to smear all gun owners with the broad brush of 'militia extremist'

    Militia group slammed door in suspects' faces.


    http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d29-Dont-confuse-MI-suspects-with-lawabiding-gun-owners


    Or try this:

    http://tinyurl.com/ydsj85t
    slammed the door is right, Who wants that kind of heat.

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    Well, they don't appear to be too tightly wrapped, but that depends upon whose blog you're reading. Vanderboegh at Sipsy Street Irregulars has somewhat of a different take.

    http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/

    It will be an opportunity for folks to vent.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

    They could be everything the government says and worse.

    Or, they could be none of that.

    Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

    They could be everything the government says and worse.

    Or, they could be none of that.

    Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
    Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.

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    The whole point of the operation was to send a wave of fear though the police. Now every time someone says "militia", they will immediately think "cop killer" and (over)react accordingly.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

    They could be everything the government says and worse.

    Or, they could be none of that.

    Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
    Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
    1. The BATFE were involved.
    2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

    These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

    As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Why is it when someone left wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening they are rightfully recognized to be a fringe nut job but when someone labeled right wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening the media, law enforcement and political class paint all conservative or conservative leaning moderates as being equivalent whack jobs? Geesh ...

    I still can't get the thought of John Brown's misguided march on Harper's Ferry out of my head though ... it proved to be a precursor, not an isolated incident. I'm really hoping for isolated incident here.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    precursordeepdiver wrote:
    Why is it when someone left wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening they are rightfully recognized to be a fringe nut job but when someone labeled right wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening the media, law enforcement and political class paint all conservative or conservative leaning moderates as being equivalent whack jobs? Geesh ...

    I still can't get the thought of John Brown's misguided march on Harper's Ferry out of my head though ... it proved to be a precursor, not an isolated incident. I'm really hoping for isolated incident here.
    I am waiting for the precursor...a prelude to the big RESET.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
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    Deanimator wrote:
    Dave Workman wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

    They could be everything the government says and worse.

    Or, they could be none of that.

    Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
    Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
    1. The BATFE were involved.
    2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

    These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

    As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".
    Folks are starting to report FBI involvement with the militia ... involvement specifically in the explosives part of the indictments .... hmmmmm, imagine that

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/01...itia-suspects/


    cheers - okboomer
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    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

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    1. The BATFE were involved.
    2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.
    How was BATFE involved?

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    okboomer wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    Dave Workman wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

    They could be everything the government says and worse.

    Or, they could be none of that.

    Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
    Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
    1. The BATFE were involved.
    2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

    These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

    As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".
    Folks are starting to report FBI involvement with the militia ... involvement specifically in the explosives part of the indictments .... hmmmmm, imagine that

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/01...itia-suspects/

    Quotes from the abovestory;

    From the mouth of a US Attorney Falvey, "...there is nothing wrong with owning guns or hating the government..."

    So why were they arrested?

    "Releasing the defendants would allow them to regroup and would increase their fear of law enforcement, Falvey said."

    You think they have fear of law enforcement? You arrest them like dogs and don't present any evidence against them at the hearing.

    They were lied to by the .gov, "...were lured to a warehouse to attend a phony memorial service so they would be unarmed when authorities arrested them..."

    Show me the evidence these guys had bombs and plans to use them... Cops can talk a good game but the real proof is when it goes to court. They should have burned the warehouse and then they wouldn't of had to prove anything in court.



  14. #14
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    time for me to rant! i consider myself an average gun owner, but then i look at my avitar, and realize i'm just a dog's nose!
    anyway, back to my rant; it's amazing in our society, you can be envolved in the tree huggers, aid for haiti, PTA, or the like, and your heralded as a solid citizen, mention you support gun rights, and your immedaitely labeled by many as an trigger happy extremist, then suddenly no one wants to talk to you- so you can defend your position with facts, they just want to sit on the predisposed view of you.

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    Earth First/Earth Liberation Front engages in overt violence against the workingman logger by putting railroad spikes in timber. The headsaw has thirty feet of blade weighing two hundred pounds running at 300 feet per minute. When it hits a spike it is not different from an IED. Those are 'treehuggers' and man haters.

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    Quotes from the above story;

    From the mouth of a US Attorney Falvey, "...there is nothing wrong with owning guns or hating the government..."

    So why were they arrested?
    Well, there is that little matter of plotting to murder police officers, just so they could kill a bunch more officers with IED explosions at a funeral procession, allegedly to start some kind of civil war.

    You think they have fear of law enforcement? You arrest them like dogs and don't present any evidence against them at the hearing.
    Evidence would be detailed in the indictments and charging papers.

    They were lied to by the .gov, "...were lured to a warehouse to attend a phony memorial service so they would be unarmed when authorities arrested them..."
    Well, if you are attempting to round up criminal suspects who are allegedly involved in a plot to murder law enforcement officers, and you know they are armed, you don't tell them ahead of time you want to arrest them so you'll meet with them at a designated location, shake hands and slap the cuffs on them.

    Show me the evidence these guys had bombs and plans to use them... Cops can talk a good game but the real proof is when it goes to court. They should have burned the warehouse and then they wouldn't of had to prove anything in court.
    At the risk of sounding offensive, why should the authorities have to show you anything? Who are you (as in, what makes you so special that you deserve to see it)?

    You answered your own challenge. The real proof will be determined in court. Prosecutors aren't going to just tell everybody everything prior to a trial as it would taint the jury pool irreparably.

    Evidence is presented at trial.

    I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.

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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Evidence is presented at trial.

    I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.
    I wonder what was presented to get the warrant. Nevertheless, the suspects are still incarcerated without bond just like they had already been found guilty by a jury of their peers.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Dave Workman wrote:
    Evidence is presented at trial.

    I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.
    I wonder what was presented to get the warrant.* Nevertheless, the suspects are still incarcerated without bond just like they had already been found guilty by a jury of their peers.
    Doug, presumably these people are considered so dangerous that their freedom could pose a threat to the public, and it is likely they are high level flight risks.

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    Dave Workman wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Dave Workman wrote:
    I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty.
    Doug, presumably these people are considered so dangerous that their freedom could pose a threat to the public, and it is likely they are high level flight risks.
    Poor people as flight risks?

    That may be the crux of the issue, that if they are released then they may disappear into the bosom of their supporters, neighbors and families. But they can't go far in a nation controlled by the Department of Homeland Severity. They are not flight risks but in the most twisted of terms.

    The presumable presumption is of innocence.

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    An after thought; suppose an obvious fugitive fell across your threshold. What attributes would he have to have for you - not DW, but y'all readers - to shelter him?

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    That would depend upon my personal analysis of the aggressiveness of his offense.

    Now, since I am not a court I will assume guilt unless I know innocence to be the truth.

    So, my question will be: Assuming he is guilty, is it a crime for which this man deserves to be in jail?

    Aggression is, of course, the crucial issue.

    Someone who is accused of intended to initiate violence against innocents in the name of "revolution" or religion or what have you: No. I won't shelter them. I will evict them at gunpoint, if not seek law enforcement myself.

    Someone who is accused of having a prohibited possession? Well, I might not want that possession on my property where I might be found criminally liable for its presence, I would do nothing to help official injustice sink its talons into him. I might assist him, if the circumstances were right.

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    Doug:

    Poor people can run just as far and fast as those with money.

    Ted Bundy broke jail in Colorado without a penny, and he made it all the way to Florida. Everyone knows the rest of that story.

    Maurice Clemmons was broke, but after he shot four police officers to death in Lakewood last year, he was helped by several people until his luck ran out. The people who helped him are in jail, and they are in deep $#!+


    The Michigan suspects could run, and there would be people who would hide them out.

    I wold not suggest being one of them. A fugitive is a fugitive. Best to argue your case in court, and if somebody's going to jail, it's not going to be me for harboring a fugitive.

    Suppose an Earth First! fugitive fell across your threshold. What attributes would he have to have in order for anyone here to shelter him?


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    Man there sure are a lot of gullible people posting on this one.

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