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Don't equate average gun owners with Michigan suspects

GLOCK21GB

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Pace

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I believe the MI folks were neither militian or gun rights advocates. They were nutters.

Glock34 wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
Don't equate Michigan suspects with typical law-abiding gun owners



Beware of attempts by gun prohibitionists to smear all gun owners with the broad brush of 'militia extremist'

Militia group slammed door in suspects' faces.


http://www.examiner.com/x-4525-Seattle-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m3d29-Dont-confuse-MI-suspects-with-lawabiding-gun-owners


Or try this:

http://tinyurl.com/ydsj85t
slammed the door is right, Who wants that kind of heat.
 

Deanimator

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It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

They could be everything the government says and worse.

Or, they could be none of that.

Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
 

Dave Workman

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Deanimator wrote:
It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

They could be everything the government says and worse.

Or, they could be none of that.

Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
 

canadian

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The whole point of the operation was to send a wave of fear though the police. Now every time someone says "militia", they will immediately think "cop killer" and (over)react accordingly.
 

Deanimator

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Dave Workman wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

They could be everything the government says and worse.

Or, they could be none of that.

Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
1. The BATFE were involved.
2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".
 

deepdiver

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Why is it when someone left wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening they are rightfully recognized to be a fringe nut job but when someone labeled right wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening the media, law enforcement and political class paint all conservative or conservative leaning moderates as being equivalent whack jobs? Geesh ... :banghead:

I still can't get the thought of John Brown's misguided march on Harper's Ferry out of my head though ... it proved to be a precursor, not an isolated incident. I'm really hoping for isolated incident here.
 

GLOCK21GB

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precursordeepdiver wrote:
Why is it when someone left wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening they are rightfully recognized to be a fringe nut job but when someone labeled right wing does something dangerous, stupid or threatening the media, law enforcement and political class paint all conservative or conservative leaning moderates as being equivalent whack jobs? Geesh ... :banghead:

I still can't get the thought of John Brown's misguided march on Harper's Ferry out of my head though ... it proved to be a precursor, not an isolated incident. I'm really hoping for isolated incident here.
I am waiting for the precursor...a prelude to the big RESET.
 

okboomer

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Deanimator wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

They could be everything the government says and worse.

Or, they could be none of that.

Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
1. The BATFE were involved.
2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".

Folks are starting to report FBI involvement with the militia ... involvement specifically in the explosives part of the indictments .... hmmmmm, imagine that :banghead:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/01/fbi-ruse-created-arrest-militia-suspects/
 

Dave Workman

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1. The BATFE were involved.
2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

How was BATFE involved?
 

kwikrnu

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okboomer wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
It's FAR too early to know the REAL truth.

They could be everything the government says and worse.

Or, they could be none of that.

Remember, the Duke lacross team were indicted too, and the BATFE have a record of dishonesty rivaled only by that of Mike Nifong.
Well, maybe you overlooked it, but the BATFE didn't pop these guys, the FBI did.
1. The BATFE were involved.
2. The BATFE didn't "pop" Randy Weaver. They still entrapped Weaver and lied to the Federal Marshall's service about Weaver's alleged "bank robberies", etc.

These guys could be guilty as sin. I wouldn't believe the government's case if any significant part of it hinges on the veracity of the BATFE, the only federal "law enforcement" agency of which I'm aware to ever make AN OFFICIAL TRAINING VIDEO ON HOW TO LIE UNDER OATH.

As I said, it's WAY too early to make a determination with the available "facts".

Folks are starting to report FBI involvement with the militia ... involvement specifically in the explosives part of the indictments .... hmmmmm, imagine that :banghead:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/04/01/fbi-ruse-created-arrest-militia-suspects/

Quotes from the abovestory;

From the mouth of a US Attorney Falvey, "...there is nothing wrong with owning guns or hating the government..."

So why were they arrested?

"Releasing the defendants would allow them to regroup and would increase their fear of law enforcement, Falvey said."

You think they have fear of law enforcement? You arrest them like dogs and don't present any evidence against them at the hearing.:uhoh:

They were lied to by the .gov, "...were lured to a warehouse to attend a phony memorial service so they would be unarmed when authorities arrested them..."

Show me the evidence these guys had bombs and plans to use them... Cops can talk a good game but the real proof is when it goes to court. They should have burned the warehouse and then they wouldn't of had to prove anything in court.
 
M

McX

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time for me to rant! i consider myself an average gun owner, but then i look at my avitar, and realize i'm just a dog's nose!:D
anyway, back to my rant; it's amazing in our society, you can be envolved in the tree huggers, aid for haiti, PTA, or the like, and your heralded as a solid citizen, mention you support gun rights, and your immedaitely labeled by many as an trigger happy extremist, then suddenly no one wants to talk to you- so you can defend your position with facts, they just want to sit on the predisposed view of you.
 
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Earth First/Earth Liberation Front engages in overt violence against the workingman logger by putting railroad spikes in timber. The headsaw has thirty feet of blade weighing two hundred pounds running at 300 feet per minute. When it hits a spike it is not different from an IED. Those are 'treehuggers' and man haters.
 

Dave Workman

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Quotes from the above story;

From the mouth of a US Attorney Falvey, "...there is nothing wrong with owning guns or hating the government..."

So why were they arrested?

Well, there is that little matter of plotting to murder police officers, just so they could kill a bunch more officers with IED explosions at a funeral procession, allegedly to start some kind of civil war.

You think they have fear of law enforcement? You arrest them like dogs and don't present any evidence against them at the hearing.

Evidence would be detailed in the indictments and charging papers.

They were lied to by the .gov, "...were lured to a warehouse to attend a phony memorial service so they would be unarmed when authorities arrested them..."

Well, if you are attempting to round up criminal suspects who are allegedly involved in a plot to murder law enforcement officers, and you know they are armed, you don't tell them ahead of time you want to arrest them so you'll meet with them at a designated location, shake hands and slap the cuffs on them.

Show me the evidence these guys had bombs and plans to use them... Cops can talk a good game but the real proof is when it goes to court. They should have burned the warehouse and then they wouldn't of had to prove anything in court.

At the risk of sounding offensive, why should the authorities have to show you anything? Who are you (as in, what makes you so special that you deserve to see it)?

You answered your own challenge. The real proof will be determined in court. Prosecutors aren't going to just tell everybody everything prior to a trial as it would taint the jury pool irreparably.

Evidence is presented at trial.

I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.
 
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Dave Workman wrote:
Evidence is presented at trial.

I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.
I wonder what was presented to get the warrant. Nevertheless, the suspects are still incarcerated without bond just like they had already been found guilty by a jury of their peers.
 

Dave Workman

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
Evidence is presented at trial.

I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty. That's the way it's supposed to be until a jury delivers a verdict.
I wonder what was presented to get the warrant.  Nevertheless, the suspects are still incarcerated without bond just like they had already been found guilty by a jury of their peers.

Doug, presumably these people are considered so dangerous that their freedom could pose a threat to the public, and it is likely they are high level flight risks.
 
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Dave Workman wrote:
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
I have no idea whether these people are innocent or guilty.
Doug, presumably these people are considered so dangerous that their freedom could pose a threat to the public, and it is likely they are high level flight risks.
Poor people as flight risks?

That may be the crux of the issue, that if they are released then they may disappear into the bosom of their supporters, neighbors and families. But they can't go far in a nation controlled by the Department of Homeland Severity. They are not flight risks but in the most twisted of terms.

The presumable presumption is of innocence.
 
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