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Thread: Detroit Police Precincts Arbitrarily Designated as PFZ's?

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

    He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

    I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

    While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    A police station is not a PFZ and cannot be made into one because they feel like it. I've been to a station that had a jail attached, and it had a sign that said that you can't carry past this point. Into the station is legal, though. And if your friend wasn't being stopped for anything, there's no legal reason to disclose.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
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    As far as your question of "how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?"

    Well, that's totally illegal and they need to be held accountable if your story is true.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
    I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

    He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

    I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

    While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
    I call BS. You have to cite more evidence that this happened.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
    I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

    He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

    I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

    While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
    I call BS. You have to cite more evidence that this happened.
    I agree with you Venator about the story being BS; as I wrote in my initial post this is a story from another person so I too was dubious which is why I asked my colleague several times as to what his friend was charged with.

    Most likely they let him go after a couple hours without any charges and a serious tongue lashing so as to discourage anyone else from doing it, but that’s the only way I can imagine the DPD could get away with such behavior without there being a paper trail.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    IF the story is true, I'd say the person who got arrested should have been charged with aggravated stupidity. If you're carrying concealed, the LAST thing you do is brag about carrying in a police station, even if it is legal.
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    If the story is as related, it sounds like DPD acted completely illegally. Only the legislature can designate something a PFZ.

    Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. It's POSSIBLE that's what happened to the person in this incident. If the cops basically told him: "Excuse me ... didn't you see the sign? We don't allow weapons in here!" and he "Pulled attitude" and told them "This isn't a PFZ, you can't make me leave, I have a CPL!" I can see how he would have gotten arrested.

    But short of that (and there's no evidence of that in your story) ... totally illegal.

    Even if the precinct DID somehow magically become a PFZ, or some cop wrongly decided that there was a duty to disclose simply because the guy walked into a police station and started a casual conversation with a LEO (which there ISN'T), if memory serves, that's still just a violation, not something anyone should be arrested for.

    cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
    I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

    He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

    I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

    While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.

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    DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.

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    CrimDoc wrote:

    Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. It's POSSIBLE that's what happened to the person in this incident. If the cops basically told him: "Excuse me ... didn't you see the sign? We don't allow weapons in here!" and he "Pulled attitude" and told them "This isn't a PFZ, you can't make me leave, I have a CPL!" I can see how he would have gotten arrested.



    Not true due to the Michigan Preemption law of 1990

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    Hmm ... actually, you're right ... they're a governmental agency (not a private entity) ... wasn't thinking ... my bad.

    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    CrimDoc wrote:
    If the story is as related, it sounds like DPD acted completely illegally. Only the legislature can designate something a PFZ.

    Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. Aah how can they charge for trespassing when the sign is illegal?
    mine in read.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.
    Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    You're right guys ... didn't think that one through before I wrote it ... my bad (I already posted to that effect).

    cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.
    Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.

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    You're right guys ... didn't think that one through before I wrote it ... my bad (I already posted to that effect).

    cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.
    Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-19-2010 at 12:01 AM.

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    Lapeer county sheriff's department has "concealed weapons are not permitted in this building" signs posted on their doors. No court in that building.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    Lapeer county sheriff's department has "concealed weapons are not permitted in this building" signs posted on their doors. No court in that building.
    Youshould send an email and ask them what authority they have to ban firearms?
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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