• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Detroit Police Precincts Arbitrarily Designated as PFZ's?

cmdr_iceman71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
409
Location
Detroit, Michigan, USA
imported post

I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
 

EM87

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
986
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
imported post

A police station is not a PFZ and cannot be made into one because they feel like it. I've been to a station that had a jail attached, and it had a sign that said that you can't carry past this point. Into the station is legal, though. And if your friend wasn't being stopped for anything, there's no legal reason to disclose.
 

EM87

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
986
Location
Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
imported post

As far as your question of "how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?"

Well, that's totally illegal and they need to be held accountable if your story is true.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
I call BS. You have to cite more evidence that this happened.
 

cmdr_iceman71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
409
Location
Detroit, Michigan, USA
imported post

Venator wrote:
cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
I call BS. You have to cite more evidence that this happened.

I agree with you Venator about the story being BS; as I wrote in my initial post this is a story from another person so I too was dubious which is why I asked my colleague several times as to what his friend was charged with.

Most likely they let him go after a couple hours without any charges and a serious tongue lashing so as to discourage anyone else from doing it, but that’s the only way I can imagine the DPD could get away with such behavior without there being a paper trail.
 

Big Gay Al

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
1,944
Location
Mason, Michigan, USA
imported post

IF the story is true, I'd say the person who got arrested should have been charged with aggravated stupidity. If you're carrying concealed, the LAST thing you do is brag about carrying in a police station, even if it is legal.
 

CrimDoc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

If the story is as related, it sounds like DPD acted completely illegally. Only the legislature can designate something a PFZ.

Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. It's POSSIBLE that's what happened to the person in this incident. If the cops basically told him: "Excuse me ... didn't you see the sign? We don't allow weapons in here!" and he "Pulled attitude" and told them "This isn't a PFZ, you can't make me leave, I have a CPL!" I can see how he would have gotten arrested.

But short of that (and there's no evidence of that in your story) ... totally illegal.

Even if the precinct DID somehow magically become a PFZ, or some cop wrongly decided that there was a duty to disclose simply because the guy walked into a police station and started a casual conversation with a LEO (which there ISN'T), if memory serves, that's still just a violation, not something anyone should be arrested for.

cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
I was discussing with a colleague how OC is legal in the state and the conversation veered into PFZ’s.

He said he and a friend of his walked into a DPD precinct (he didn’t say which one) to conduct some business and his friend was CCing and the police arrested him. As I understand it, his friend possessed a valid CPL and had no outstanding warrants. He said his friend was sorta bragging about how he had his gun on him and was subsequently arrested. At worst, he could or shouldhave been cited for failure to disclose depending on who he was talking to and how the conversation unfolded, but not arrested.My colleague on the other hand had the foresight to leave his weapon in his vehicle so the police didn’t bother him although they did ask him several times if he had his weapon on his person‘s. I asked my colleague several times what did they charge his friend with and he couldn’t say or recall. He said the desk sergeant made the comment of: "We already have enough guns in here, we don’t need anymore."

I’ve read a handful of other posts from other members who have OCed inside other police precincts without incident so I know it’s legal. I also know that MCL statues are clear on what are designated PFZ’s and CC free zones so that isn’t my question. I want to know how is it possible that the DPD can arbitrarily and unofficially designate their precincts PFZ’s and arrest citizens if they were to walk inside legally OCing and or CCing and get away with it?

While I don’t know if the aforementioned story is true or not but I do understand the territorial culture of the DPD and thus the story sounds rather plausible.
 

Denny

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
188
Location
Lansing, Michigan, USA
imported post

CrimDoc wrote:
Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. It's POSSIBLE that's what happened to the person in this incident. If the cops basically told him: "Excuse me ... didn't you see the sign? We don't allow weapons in here!" and he "Pulled attitude" and told them "This isn't a PFZ, you can't make me leave, I have a CPL!" I can see how he would have gotten arrested.
Not true due to the Michigan Preemption law of 1990
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

CrimDoc wrote:
If the story is as related, it sounds like DPD acted completely illegally. Only the legislature can designate something a PFZ.

Now, DPD IS free to post "no weapons allowed" signs and ask anyone who's carrying to leave ... if they refuse, they could then be arrested for trespassing. Aah how can they charge for trespassing when the sign is illegal?
mine in read.
 

cmdr_iceman71

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
409
Location
Detroit, Michigan, USA
imported post

zigziggityzoo wrote:
DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.

Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.
 

CrimDoc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

You're right guys ... didn't think that one through before I wrote it ... my bad (I already posted to that effect).

cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.

Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.
 

CrimDoc

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
144
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
imported post

You're right guys ... didn't think that one through before I wrote it ... my bad (I already posted to that effect).

cmdr_iceman71 wrote:
zigziggityzoo wrote:
DPD has no authority to post "no weapons allowed" signs. You are completely wrong.

Exactly; that is what I was thinking too, I mean so what if they post a sign, the police precinct is public property and thus open to the public - same thing for the Secretary of State.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

lapeer20m wrote:
Lapeer county sheriff's department has "concealed weapons are not permitted in this building" signs posted on their doors. No court in that building.
Youshould send an email and ask them what authority they have to ban firearms?
 
Top