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Thread: sheepdogs?

  1. #1
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I spent a good while watching my red speckle australian cattle dog yesterday. He is very loyal to my mother, myself, and my father. My mother andI have embarked on a project down the hill from the house I could call " Project Where-the-f is That Stream?". Over 20 years ago we met an old farmer guy who used to live on the farmland that was later divided and sold, of which we have a 10 acre parcel of. He told us there used to be a little stream on part of this land and in the 40's it was filled in to create more land to grow crops for the war. Down a ways on the neighbor's there is a stream, and there used to be springy spots a few hundred yards from our border, but a previous owner dug trenches to concentrate the water, then covered it up.

    So mother and I went down there yesterday to dig, and I got Dakota the red speckle to come with us. I had dug a 2 foot hole the day before which included removing rock after rock including a 60 pound or so one, so I was kinda achy and therefore sat and talked to my mom alot. I did do some more digging, outlining the trench area needed to be dug down probably 5-6 feet LOL.

    I watched the dog as he is entertaining. He eats dirt and stuff for one, and gets bored easily, so I wasengaging withhim.Yes, he wanted to help us, but biting the shovel while I am trying to use it, and digging small holes in the wrong part doesn't cut it. When I was resting and he was too, I watched him. I noticed he is ever alert, and he never fell asleep. This is not a place he goes to all the time, and though familiar with it, he isn't going to go off guard, esp with his 2 "love mommies" there. Cattle dogs are very loyal by nature. He was situated and just watching. Every little sound and he would look towards it- birds flying into or out of trees, the wind blowing on something, etc. He was in cond yellow and never let up. At one point a neighbor was walking up by their garage building ( there is a wire fence so the dog can't go over there). Dakota was on it first, alerting my mother and I. He ran towards the fence and almost barked, butI yelled to him it was ok, and he looked a little longer, than came back to us. After a while he got totally bored with us and left and went back up the hill towards the house. No problem, I can keep watch LOL.

    So... cattle dog:

    -very loyal to it's "family" ( not loyal to cattle or sheep! But can be easily trained to move them around)

    -independant ( does it's own thing such as when bored, thinks for itself)

    -great guard dogs for its "family"

    -generally very intelligent

    -heel nipping, shovel biting, broom attacking...



    Would you say "we" are more like a cattle dog than a sheepdog? Many here have stated they would look out for "they and their own" in an active shooter crisis, and not engage the shooter unless "they and their own" are in immediate danger. If you can all get away safely, you would, and the other people are "on their own". A "sheepdog" however would engage the shooter after ensuring "their own" are safe first, even if safe retreat is available for themselves.

    The heel nipping or "heeler" part is attributable to the OC movement, as "we" keep the LEO's and lawmakers on their feet and put them in their place when they abuse their authority and step on our rights ( or try to). OCers may not hang on like a pitbull, but "we" gently (or maybe not as gently if curcumstances warrant it), nip the heels to keep them in line.

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    I think we'd be more like another breed of dog that I don't think is particularly know for it's "herding" abilities. Can't think of the name of this breed, but it's big, long haired and white. From what I've heard, they mill about in a herd of sheep, goats, or cattle and guard against anything that might attempt to do harm to the herd. These dogs are large enough to even fend off medium sized bear or a mountian lion. I've not heard of this breed being a "herder" in the driving sense.

    "We" are not herders, as your Aussie dog is (if he's trained for that work).

  3. #3
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I am not a sheep for I do not mill around with the flock with my attention on fitting in with the flock.

    I am not a wolf for I do not prey on the sheep.

    I am not a sheepdog for I do not have the responsibility to protect the sheep... nor do I have any desire to fight the wolf.

    I am a stray dog... I am warily friendly to the sheep and I avoid the wolf as I fend for myself yet I will fiercely fight to protect those I love... from both wolf and sheep.

    That said... I don't like using the word "sheep" because it is derogatory to people who need to be educated that they too can defend from the "wolf".

    The word "wolf" is an accurate term for predatory criminals so I have no problem with that one.

    And the word "sheepdog" sounds so nice... to be someone who protects the weak and innocent... but the truth is... it is the "sheepdogs" job and responsibility to protect the flock but it is not my job or responsibility to protect other citizens just because I carry a gun. I can choose to protect other citizens because of my individual morals and ethics... but I am not obligated to... it still isn't my job or responsibility... hence I am not a "sheepdog".
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    A sheepdog will protect sheep- that one breed will do it by instinct if they are raised with the sheep, but a cattle dog only moves livestock around, and must be given training. Being born with herding instinct doesn't mean they will move the cattle automatically, or do anything other than move them in circles LOL. In fact my blue heeler was afraid of cattle LOL. My neighbor had some years ago and the blue would bark at them then run away!

    A cattle dog is not used to protect cattle, only move them when/if needed. They can also be trained to be search and rescue dogs, and other non herding related tasks. They are supposed to be really good for watching the kids in the family. Recently there was a child that got lost in the desert near his/her home. The family cattle dog had gone out with the child, and when it was night and got cold, the dog snuggled up with the kid and kept the kidwarm.

    Cattle dogs can be very independant and tough. One once ended up in the ocean off of Australia ( boating accident or something), and managed to swim to an uninhabited island and survive there for quite some time. My blue used tolay in the hot sun for hours ( his choice)and not be effected.

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    Lets not forget the good shepherd.

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    How about lamb vs. lion?


    Lamb: goes through life unaware, assuming that others will take care of him or her.
    Lion: strong, proud, fierce, and will fight back savagely if provoked sufficiently.

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    The lion will eat the lamb if hungry, or even bored.

    Sheepdogs : http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I think we'd be more like another breed of dog that I don't think is particularly know for it's "herding" abilities. Can't think of the name of this breed, but it's big, long haired and white. From what I've heard, they mill about in a herd of sheep, goats, or cattle and guard against anything that might attempt to do harm to the herd. These dogs are large enough to even fend off medium sized bear or a mountian lion. I've not heard of this breed being a "herder" in the driving sense.
    Sounds like you're thinking of some LGD (Livestock Guard Dogs) or Flock Guardian breeds:
    Kuvasz
    Great Pyrenees

    I've owned Kuvasz for a few decades and they're very protective of their "flock", be it human or otherwise. If not continually socialized when they're young they may become overzealous in their guarding duties. German soldiers nearly wiped-out the Hungarian population of this breed in WW2. You are correct that they have little interest in herding, but prefer to mingle or overwatch from a distance.

    Link to a farm that uses both breeds

    Now back OT [sort of] - If I couldn't carry (OC/CC) I'd definitely try to take my dogs with me!
    I wonder if more people are hoplophobic or cynophobic?
    "Rule 1: All Guns Are Always Loaded" - Jeff Cooper
    On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs - by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman

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    Newbie crisisweasel's Avatar
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    stainless1911 wrote:
    Lets not forget the good shepherd.
    The good shepherd...with a gun.

    Dogs are pack animals. Goofy, but slavish. They know their place in the hierarchy.


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    I never pictures Christ holding a gun. hmmm.

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    stainless1911 wrote:
    I never pictures Christ holding a gun. hmmm.
    Christ never took up a sword. However, shortly before He was taken, He did instruct His disciples to do so.

  12. #12
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    I found this....

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    Well nooo $#!+

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