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Newb from Portland

C

caddydaddy

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Hi,
I'm new to the site and live in Portland. I'm not one that regularly open carries, since people around here are so gun scared, but I've had my CCW permit for about 5 years with no issues.
 
C

caddydaddy

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shanebelanger wrote:
Hopefully our BBQ has changed the fact that you don't OC :)
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No, while I support your guy's views on it, I believe that concealing a weapon is the best way to carry. That way, you're not an immediate target when the bad guy is scoping out threats.
 
S

shanebelanger

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caddydaddy wrote:
shanebelanger wrote:
Hopefully our BBQ has changed the fact that you don't OC :)
Click to expand...
No, while I support your guy's views on it, I believe that concealing a weapon is the best way to carry. That way, you're not an immediate target when the bad guy is scoping out threats.
Click to expand...
I disagree, but I value your opinion and I admire your honesty! Thank you!
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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caddydaddy wrote:
shanebelanger wrote:
Hopefully our BBQ has changed the fact that you don't OC :)
Click to expand...
No, while I support your guy's views on it, I believe that concealing a weapon is the best way to carry. That way, you're not an immediate target when the bad guy is scoping out threats.
Click to expand...
This is one of the original Urban Legends.

The standard issue challenge is this: Show me one (1) verifiable cite in modern times, anywhere in the USA where an honest citizen OCing (not LEO or security) has ever been preemptively taken out.

Hasn't happened yet - likely will some day, but when it does the resultant percentage ratio will look something like .00001%

On the other hand, there are untold thousands of times where on OCd gun has deterred a crime w/o being touched. I prefer the odds on my side (pun intended) thank you.

Yata hey
 
C

caddydaddy

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Grapeshot wrote:
This is one of the original Urban Legends.

The standard issue challenge is this: Show me one (1) verifiable cite in modern times, anywhere in the USA where an honest citizen OCing (not LEO or security) has ever been preemptively taken out.

Hasn't happened yet - likely will some day, but when it does the resultant percentage ratio will look something like .00001%

On the other hand, there are untold thousands of times where on OCd gun has deterred a crime w/o being touched. I prefer the odds on my side (pun intended) thank you.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
Urban legend or not, if I was a criminal, and I saw a guy with a gun, he would be a threat to my evil plan, thus a threat, so I'd take him out first!

But, I'm smart, and most criminals aren't! :p

Even if someone wasn't going to shoot me, the chance of a gun grab worries me. The way some of the people were OCing at the BBQ was not aimed at weapons retention!
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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caddydaddy wrote:
Grapeshot wrote:
This is one of the original Urban Legends.

The standard issue challenge is this: Show me one (1) verifiable cite in modern times, anywhere in the USA where an honest citizen OCing (not LEO or security) has ever been preemptively taken out.

Hasn't happened yet - likely will some day, but when it does the resultant percentage ratio will look something like .00001%

On the other hand, there are untold thousands of times where on OCd gun has deterred a crime w/o being touched. I prefer the odds on my side (pun intended) thank you.

Yata hey
Click to expand...
Urban legend or not, if I was a criminal, and I saw a guy with a gun, he would be a threat to my evil plan, thus a threat, so I'd take him out first!

But, I'm smart, and most criminals aren't! :p

Even if someone wasn't going to shoot me, the chance of a gun grab worries me. The way some of the people were OCing at the BBQ was not aimed at weapons retention!
Click to expand...
Still it is incumbent upon us all to distinguish between fact and fiction. Otherwise we perpetuate the myths that are so promoted by the anti 2A crowd and even the CC only people.

There is unquestioned benefit to retention holsters and situational awareness. Even hand-to-hand defense is a prudent ability. That said, you would sooner attempt to grab a rattlesnake's tongue than to try and snatch mine. :p

As to non-retention holsters at a cook out, that is the time for BBQ guns and holsters. I see little direct correlation between style selected for an event of that nature and what I would expect to see outside such a large protective circle of the wagons. ymmv

Yata hey
 
J

Justified

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Caddydaddy has a valid point. I actually subscribe to that school for the most part. We should also be mindful that we're on the same side and while cd's comments are honest and IMHO, persuasive, that isn't an attack on OC disciples. We should also not lose credibility by making claims that can't be proven. The logicial equivalent to the "OCers arent' marks because they OC" is "I wasn't attacked this morning on the way to work because I'm a big boy and I look mean". Neither cause/effect nexus is provable so let's not get too much in the weeds about that stuff; I don't think it casts a kind shadow on an otherwise wonderful cause.
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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OC is legal because there is no law against it.

OC is safe and effective because there is absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Personally, I do not care how you carry or even if you carry, but if you do carry, do so responsibly.

Yata hey
 
S

shanebelanger

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Yes, caddydaddy does make a very good point and I too agree and disagree with him. I think that there are times when it is simply more convenient to carry concealed, so I do. While there are other times when it is simply more convenient to carry openly. I think that you should carry at all times, if at all possible. Of course this is simply because you never know when you will need to protect yourself or your loved ones. Concealed carry isn't right or wrong, and neither is open carry. There are opportune times for both as well as inopportune times. We're on the same side here fellas. We just do the same thing a little bit differently. At the end of the day we're still on the same side of the street (the one w/o the bad guys ;-)* Thats one thing I think we really need to get away from. We need to get away from OC VS. CC WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG. It's the same thing. We are both protecting ourselves and our loves ones. We should be about furthering the *personal protection movement? perhaps the constitutional carry movement?* and worry less about oc vs cc.

Just my .02 cents, take it or leave it.
 
J

jay75009

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shanebelanger wrote:
Yes, caddydaddy does make a very good point and I too agree and disagree with him.  I think that there are times when it is simply more convenient to carry concealed, so I do.  While there are other times when it is simply more convenient to carry openly.  I think that you should carry at all times, if at all possible.  Of course this is simply because you never know when you will need to protect yourself or your loved ones.  Concealed carry isn't right or wrong, and neither is open carry.  There are opportune times for both as well as inopportune times.  We're on the same side here fellas.  We just do the same thing a little bit differently.  At the end of the day we're still on the same side of the street (the one w/o the bad guys ;-)*  Thats one thing I think we really need to get away from.  We need to get away from OC VS. CC WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG.  It's the same thing.  We are both protecting ourselves and our loves ones.  We should be about furthering the *personal protection movement?  perhaps the constitutional carry movement?* and worry less about oc vs cc. 

Just my .02 cents, take it or leave it.
Click to expand...


very right bro. i've always oc'ed cause i didn't have my CCW, but i do now and realize places like wal-mart, although fun to OC in are better to CC in just to avoid removal. The CC permit comes in alot of handy, if i'm OC'ing and need to go somewhere i cant.....i just cover it with my shirt. either way i have my weapon. either way myself and those around me are protected. either way im doing it legally , so who really cares how you carry your weapon. its the right your exorcising that matters
 
Grapeshot

Grapeshot

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jay75009 wrote:
shanebelanger wrote:
Yes, caddydaddy does make a very good point and I too agree and disagree with him. I think that there are times when it is simply more convenient to carry concealed, so I do. While there are other times when it is simply more convenient to carry openly. I think that you should carry at all times, if at all possible. Of course this is simply because you never know when you will need to protect yourself or your loved ones. Concealed carry isn't right or wrong, and neither is open carry. There are opportune times for both as well as inopportune times. We're on the same side here fellas. We just do the same thing a little bit differently. At the end of the day we're still on the same side of the street (the one w/o the bad guys ;-)* Thats one thing I think we really need to get away from. We need to get away from OC VS. CC WHO'S RIGHT, WHO'S WRONG. It's the same thing. We are both protecting ourselves and our loves ones. We should be about furthering the *personal protection movement? perhaps the constitutional carry movement?* and worry less about oc vs cc.

Just my .02 cents, take it or leave it.
Click to expand...
very right bro. i've always oc'ed cause i didn't have my CCW, but i do now and realize places like wal-mart, although fun to OC in are better to CC in just to avoid removal. The CC permit comes in alot of handy, if i'm OC'ing and need to go somewhere i cant.....i just cover it with my shirt. either way i have my weapon. either way myself and those around me are protected. either way im doing it legally , so who really cares how you carry your weapon. its the right your exorcising that matters
Click to expand...
Agree generally, up to a point and not quarreling. I've been known to switch to CC myself for various reason.

The point being that there is no public awareness when CCing - not that everyone is comfortable OCing and not saying such is mandatory. Just saying that if it is not seen, it is unknown and the acknowledgment of the RKBA is lessened.

This public relations war in which we are involved so deeply would take several giant steps backwards were it not for OC. What measure of success would your recent picnic have had without the media exposure and if all attending had been CCing?

Remember the old adage that children should be seen, but not heard? The anti-freedom crowd treats you like children who should neither been seen or heard. They want you and your handgun to disappear - don't oblige them.

We must exercise that right in order that we retain/advance it.

Yata hey
 
J

jay75009

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i agree with you on that grape.

i enjoy both forms of carry. i usually OC when im by myself. i dont mind the looks, stares, questions and sometimes insults. they give me an opportunity to inform and stop fears.

however......when im with my girlfriend i CC. shes terrified of guns *but shes form vermont i dont get that* and feels very uneasy with the stares i get when i OC.

i've noticed since the gettogether that people dont look at me as oddly. they still stare and point. but i havnt heard a shrill scream since....were moving forward :-D
 
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Justified

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After running these comments through the deductive reasoning machine I conclude the following: we're on the same team; sometimes CCing is much more effective and practical than OCing; that those of us with young families, professions, etc., don't always have the luxury of being a 24/7 walking political advertisement and for those reasons may not want to strap one on the hip when we go to the beach with the kids. You feel me?

Moving on.
 
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