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Thread: First time OC.. from Maryland

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    Myself and a friend plan our first trip to PA to open carry. I read everything I could find on this, but still have a few questions. Our plan is this.

    Leave Baltimore with guns locked in trunk unloaded with ammo outside of gun case. Arrive in PA, stop at walmart (load mags/gun in parking lot, holster) go shopping, come back, unload gun, leave mags loaded, lock gun in trunk. mags separate.Drive to friends house get out, load mags back into gun, go in house... visit.. come out, pop mags out, unchamber round, unload mags, lock unloaded gun and mags back in case, bullets back in box. Then drive back to MD. Does anyone see any problem with this? We so not have any permits. I know you can only transport in MD if you are going to the range or something, but I remember something about transporting interstate you do not need to be heading to a range to have it in your car in MD, just leaving the state. P.S. we are both over 21 and are aware of the restrictions on carrying, not in Philly, not in car, not in schools/courts and all that. Please let me know if my plan is flawed/illegal

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    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    I'm afraid your plan is flawed.

    Open Carry in PA is legal, on foot only. You could leave your house (PA residence for example) and walk anywhere not prohibited. This requires no permit or license.

    As soon as you go to transport by vehicle, you are limited to the kinds of places you can transport to:

    >DIRECTLY from home to range and back
    >DIRECTLY from home gun shop and back

    You are not permitted to use vehicle transport to circumvent the permit requirements. Instead, get your Florida, Utah, or possible even Virginia non-resident permit, then come on up and enjoy your freedoms!

    There is a member here who lives just over the line in MD, has her Florida permit, and open carries whenever she is in PA.

    Bottom line, in PA, without a permit, Open Carry is legal but severely restricted. With a permit, Open Carry is legal and NEARLY unrestricted.

    If citations are needed I could poke around and get them here, but I need to get ready for work and might be able to get anything posted here until tomorrow. My main concern was to respond and tell you NOT to do this.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Yup, you need to get a carry lisc recognized by PA just to have the gun in a car if not going to a range, gunsmith, hunting. If you plan to only OC on foot, any carry lisc from any state will cover the gun being in a car. Also keep in mind about school zones.

    LOL- Shrewsbury Walmart? I need to get some more invoice books, and they sell them there.

    Ha ha ha and don't forget the Starbucks!

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    Ok thanks guys. Looks like it wont happen until i submit my VA non-res

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    If you want to travel south instead, VA allows OC in a vehicle w/out needing a lisc, so if you want to OC ASAP, try northern VA. Check out the VA forum.

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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    XD40coyote wrote:
    If you want to travel south instead, VA allows OC in a vehicle w/out needing a lisc, so if you want to OC ASAP, try northern VA. Check out the VA forum.
    Or you can also try West Virginia. They also allow OC in a vehicle and on foot.

    I sure wish PA would stop the vehicle restriction Bull S#%@. It really makes no sense. But not making any sense is typical for Pennsylvania.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Sig229 wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    If you want to travel south instead, VA allows OC in a vehicle w/out needing a lisc, so if you want to OC ASAP, try northern VA. Check out the VA forum.
    Or you can also try West Virginia. They also allow OC in a vehicle and on foot.

    I sure wish PA would stop the vehicle restriction Bull S#%@. It really makes no sense. But not making any sense is typical for Pennsylvania.
    I am sure Philthy has something to do with it. They stick their fox paws with chicken bloodstains into PA politics and try to screw the henhouse over as much as possible.

    Maybe someone in the legislature can try to intro a bill to amend the law. Of course the dirty Philthy foxes will want their "city of the 1st class" exempt, meaning LTCF still required, just like with OC there.

    Wouldn't it be great though if PA went to constitutional carry? The school zone crap needs repealed too.

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    I wouldn't handle your guns in public (i.e. in the Walmart parking lot) because I think you could be charged with brandishing if someone saw you, was afraid, and called the police. Maybe go to a gas station and load up in their restroom, as long as there are no posted signs at the gas station that say no guns allowed. Good luck!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Burlyman78 wrote:
    I wouldn't handle your guns in public (i.e. in the Walmart parking lot) because I think you could be charged with brandishing if someone saw you, was afraid, and called the police. Maybe go to a gas station and load up in their restroom, as long as there are no posted signs at the gas station that say no guns allowed. Good luck!
    This wouldn't stand in Virginia, though I haven't a clue about Pennsylvania. Just because someone sees you handling a firearm does not imply that you are brandishing it. Now if you held it in a threatening manner or waved it at someone or indicated your firearm while acting in a menacing fashion then yes, you could be charged with brandishing. But just taking if from your trunk and holstering it would not constitute brandishing.. unless the state has some specific law in this regard.

    Best thing would be to remove the handgun in its case from the trunk, return to the car then load and holster it while inside the car. This would look more natural and less scary to uneducated people.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Sig229 wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    If you want to travel south instead, VA allows OC in a vehicle w/out needing a lisc, so if you want to OC ASAP, try northern VA. Check out the VA forum.
    Or you can also try West Virginia. They also allow OC in a vehicle and on foot.

    I sure wish PA would stop the vehicle restriction Bull S#%@. It really makes no sense. But not making any sense is typical for Pennsylvania.
    Would be easy enough to do...If Iowa can completely rewrite their entire system...we should be able remove one little part...

    strikeout the bolded lines:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license (a) Offense defined.-- (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree. (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree. (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

    (11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
    18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses (a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.

    Is it mentioned anywhere else?
    States dont have rights. People do.

  11. #11
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    The Webster Definition of "to brandish" is to "wave something around in a threatening manner."

    I am not sure of the legal definition; it is probably the same but left for a Judge or Jury to decide whatconstitutes a "threatening manner".

  12. #12
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    rugerdon wrote:
    The Webster Definition of "to brandish" is to "wave something around in a threatening manner."

    I am not sure of the legal definition; it is probably the same but left for a Judge or Jury to decide whatconstitutes a "threatening manner".
    One can be charged with brandishing for raising a shirt to expose a concealed firearm to someone in a menacing or threatening manner.

    (source: an attorney)

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  13. #13
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    You're going the wrong direction! Head South one state.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  14. #14
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Biggie... welcome to Pennsylvania! We'd love to have you.

    However, your plan is flawed/illegal. When transporting in PA without a permit or license from PA or any other state, you may only transport for very specific reasons, ie: to and from a range, gunshop where gun was purchased, place of employment where firearm is part of your job unless you own the shop, etc. A lot like Maryland in this regard. A trip to WalMart of your buddies house is not a legal destination.

    What makes PA nice is that many of these ridiculous restrictions go away when you get your LTCF, and PA is a shall-issue state. You need to get a non-resident permit from a state like Utah, Florida, etc. Then you may carry open or concealed, including while in your car.

    PA does not issue non-resident LTCF to citizens of another state where that state will not issue a permit to you. PA DOES recognize non-res permits from other states.

    There is a member right here on OCDO who lives VERY close to the MD/PA line. She has her Florida permit and carries in PA frequently.
    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  15. #15
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Get a carry lisc from another state and find a backroad pull off spot just over the border in PA. Preferably where there are no houses. And make sure a school isn't next to the spot. Be discreet and learn a quick way to do it ( without shooting yourself please). Use the same spot when heading out, to unload and stow. Remember to put your blinkers on, and if someone stops to see if you need help with something, tell them you were stopped watching a deer or something LOL. If a cop stops, tell them the truth and show them your carry lisc's( if you OC on foot you have no obligation to show them, but in a car you do need the lisc), they will understand- hopefully. I haven't had any negative run-ins with SRPD, but I know they know OC is legal, andI haven't heard of them being total a-holes in general. The couple cops I met some years back were nice guys. Oh yeah, Game Commission is another that might drive down a back road, same deal, they are law enforcement, tell them the truth. Myself,I am stealthy, so I haven't had anything go on, except the time I wanted to use the parking lot of the Mason Dixon farmers market store. LOL this guy that works there came over and asked if I need help with something. Stick to back road pull-offs...( I've learned some from trapping both sides of the line- farms and back roads kinda go together).

    I've OC'd at Nikolas Cafe, Paesanos, a little eatery next to the rail trail, and the rail trail itself, and even walked around New Freedom and went past the police station LOL. Nobody seemed to care.

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