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Traffic Stop: "Your papers please --- AND your fingerprints!"

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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The project on which I work at my last job (I am now retired) had the contract to develop, support, and maintain the automated fingerprint identification system for the UK. About 5+ years ago, we began development and implementation of a new pilot program called Lantern. This was a portable fingerprint scanning machine which would take two prints from someone during traffic stops. The machine looked virtually identical to what you see in this video.

Last year, we had a short demo and hands on inspection of another portable machine that a few people in our group were working on. This machine resemble a rather large old-style bellows camera (without the bellows). It had a screen and it would take several biometric data types: fingerprints, facial recognition, eye scans, and voice prints. An agency of our government (I'd rather not say which one, but it was not covert) was the client and their idea was to use this device overseas in "hot" areas with captured individuals. I would bet that it would likely make it into our civilian population here in the states (police?) with the right administration in office.

Gentlemen, this is scary stuff.
 

buster81

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Aug 25, 2008
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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qball54208 wrote:
To buster81: As it was, way back in the day in Milwaukee, they used to require persons being issued a Citeable Violation to provide an inked impression of usually your thumb on the violation (the one kept by the State)
It was done in order to, believe it or not protect the innocent. Reason being, identity theft. Persons using an altered ID card.
For example, when a LEO has RS or PC to "Stop" an individual or "Lawful Contact", LEO are required to ID who they are "investigating" if the individual can not produce a Federal, State or other acceptable form of ID (which you are required by State Law to have on you), LEO (depending on the reason for the contact) may or may not "temporarily arrest" the person/s in an effort to ID them.
Hope this has shed some light on the issue I originally inquired about.


I assume Wisconsin does not have a law thatrequires you to carry papers with you at all times and this only applies whenyou is driving. If I understand what you are sayiing,if I'm stopped and accused of speeding, I would be compelled to provide fingerprints before I'm free to go.


Would you say this type of activityis ok?
 

hardballer

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Jul 16, 2009
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West Coast of Wisconsin
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I know it all seems benign but folks, it is inches that turn into miles. In the late seventies and early eighties, they were experimenting with monitoring systems that used the speaker on your TV as a microphone. This was connected to a cable system back then.

It was a fairly common technique used in the music industry and in intercoms of the time.

In the particular experiment that I remember reading, they implemented this system on an experimental basis in a small retirement community out west.

Purportedly for the health and well being of the retired persons living in the homes. You know, I fell and can't get up. So they would listen in and “protect” these folks.

That was the seventies my friends. The NSA was so inured in all of our communication systems by the seventies that you could just as well have renamed AT&T the NSA.

That was the seventies. This is 40 years later. In computer years that is like a millennium. So, on the surface, this finger printing thing may not seem like a big deal but it is an in your face, usurpation of your Constitutional Rights. Don't mention the abuse and outright disregard for you rights that we don't even know or hear about.

The problem is that you have a police agency taking power it has not been granted nor should ever be granted according to the Constitution.

They believe it is OK. Perhaps for differing reasons but they do think it is OK to trample your rights for the greater good or to protect their officers or who knows.

Every time we compromise the Constitution, we lose. We are less free. One more leaf has fallen from the tree of liberty. I don't know about you but I have had enough.


Edit: I looked for any mention of this experiment online but came up empty. If anyone else remembers mention of this, I think I read it in a popular mechanics or some such but I just cannot pin it down, feel free to fill us in.
 

ecocks

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Jan 5, 2009
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USA
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hardballer wrote:
ecocks wrote:
Giving a print is not anissue for me.

So I am just fine with them working to make sure they know who they are talking to and no one isposing as me.
I totally agree. We should actually be injected with a chip so they can read it as they drive by just to be sure we're ok. Maybe they should invest in tens of thousands of cameras that can scan your face or eyes to verify who you are as you walk down the street.

Hey, While were at it, why not give them a DNA sample too. Oh, I bet they would like a daily itinerary too. Say, why don't we just go ahead and have all our shell cassings and bullets numbered so they can track them. Hmmmmmm that last one sounds familiar.

The idea that because you are an honest man and so have nothing to fear, presumes the government using these new technologies and powers for good and not evil. Surely they would not use any of this for their own agenda of socialist, fascism.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. That is what is wrong with them wasting my time with another insidious invasion of my rights like finger printing me, an innocent, free citizen, just because it makes it easier for the cops?

Give me a break, will ya. How is this easier? Better? Next, you'll be OK with showing your papers at roadblocks and state borders. I know, I know, we can mark everyone with a star and their name. . . Oh and how 'bout a little tattoo, say a series of numbers? Yeah, that ought'a work.

Liberty and Freedom die a little more, every time someone says something like this.

Hasn't anybody read the Constitution. Try the 4th Amendment on for size.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


This means, No fingerprints. No nuthin' mister.

The right of the people to be secure in their person's. . .

As a free man basking in the liberty provided by my forefathers through this sacred document we call the Constitution, I find it offensive, demeaning and controlling to demand or even suggest that it is Ok to#1 stop me in the first place and 2nd force me; as I go about my legal, lawful, private business, to submit to law enforcement without suspicion of wrong doing or warrant, to accede to their order is tantamount to living in a police state.

Yup, go ahead and bask in the ever tightening controls of a social/fascist government.
Yeah, the DNA samples would help out somewhat and probably provide resolution to a lot of issues we are increasingly encountering. I'll volunteer for that without a problem. Wonder if the Army took DNA samples way back when?The chip injection would have to be worked on a bit though, I'm simply not into foreign objects in/under my skin. Maybe they can work on getting it to where it recognized my fingerprint when I strapped it on my wrist or placed it on my finger?
 
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