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Thread: OT: I Love Guns & Coffee T-Shirts

  1. #1
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    GREY IS FINALLY HERE!!!

    Colors Available are:

    White (green/black logo)
    Grey (green/black logo)
    Black (white only logo)

    If you would like one, please PM me or email me. For those of you who do not have an account at opencarry, please create one and you will be allowed to PM me.

    Available sizes are S, M, L, XL, XXL and XXXL. Tell me what size(s) and your mailing address and I will send them to you via USPS. Payment can be made via Paypal/Gunpal or in person.

    $15 each

    or

    Two for $20

    I can also meet you in person, but you have to come to me. I live in South Bellevue and can meet anywhere in/around Factoria Mall where I-405 meets I-90. I am available most of the day/evening.
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    Last edited by Flanders007; 08-12-2010 at 03:26 PM.

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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    I like em but... how is this not copyright infringement

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    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    I like em but... how is this not copyright infringement
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    I like em but... how is this not copyright infringement
    Political satire. It's actually protected speech, and the courts are generally pretty lenient about it.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Son_of_Perdition wrote:
    I like em but... how is this not copyright infringement
    I thought about this pretty hard, but as Dave pointed out, it is satire. Obviously if I had stuck the logo to a bag of coffee beans, and tried to sell those, then Starbucks would have good reason to come after me... but this is only a shirt.

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    I love the shirts, but Starbucks has requested they be left out of the pro vs anti gun debate... Not that it's correct, but most people who see the shirt are gonna start associating guns with Starbucks.

    Great work on the shirts, but it may give the public the wrong impression.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    Regular Member Son_of_Perdition's Avatar
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    Starbucks is on our side without trying to be. And that is a monumental victory for us. It is probably best to let them alone. The last thing any of us would want to to do is encourage Starbucks to change their stance on the whole issue.

    I'm not looking to be a hater but would it notalso belegal to don one of these shirts and walk into a Starbucks sporting two AR-15 pistols on your hipwith twin 100rnd drum mags while yousip on your caramel macchiato. I can see the headlines now.

    Sometimes it is best to enjoy ones victory without rubbing it into the losers face.

    http://seattletrademarklawyer.com/bl...go-parody.html

    Don't hate me. I'm on your side. Starbucks WILL go after Logo infringement. Even if you are in the right.

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    Nice resource, but again, I expect them to come after me. That's what they do. At that time, I will have to make a decision. Until then, someone has to want one of these!!! Think about it... I made only a limited amount. Once they are gone, I may not make any more if Starbucks threatens me. Who wants one?

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Using their logo for that is not good.Leave it alone.They don't want to be in the middle.Things like that will push them the other way making look like we're gloating or just nuts.We don't need to do anything but buy a coffee.Thats is pretty much a copyright infringment and using the same format as the Brady campaign was using.Again don't do anything to acknowledge .We have a vitory there we don't need to do anything else that might piss them off.

    I loose any respect for anyone wearing that shirt.....Really bad idea.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Using their logo for that is not good.Leave it alone.They don't want to be in the middle.Things like that will push them the other way making look like we're gloating or just nuts.We don't need to do anything but buy a coffee.Thats is pretty much a copyright infringment and using the same format as the Brady campaign was using.Again don't do anything to acknowledge .We have a vitory there we don't need to do anything else that might piss them off.

    I loose any respect for anyone wearing that shirt.....Really bad idea.
    Wow. Flame. Um... not really sure what to say. I guess you don't want one? If I hold a large in your size would you change your mind later? What if I get Shultz to wear one and publicly state he does in fact love guns and coffee? Would you change your mind then?

    Oh, and if you think for a second that Starbucks is going to change their position because a bunch of people start wearing a Tshirt... wow... really?

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Using their logo for that is not good.Leave it alone.They don't want to be in the middle.Things like that will push them the other way making look like we're gloating or just nuts.We don't need to do anything but buy a coffee.Thats is pretty much a copyright infringment and using the same format as the Brady campaign was using.Again don't do anything to acknowledge .We have a vitory there we don't need to do anything else that might piss them off.

    I loose any respect for anyone wearing that shirt.....Really bad idea.
    Fair use FTW. Using the same pic/font/etc is irrelevant since the overall content is significantly changed to deliver a political message is a-ok. And since he's charging $15, which I'm guessing is the break even cost after S&H, he's not using it for financial gain -- which bolsters his fair use claim.

    I'm sure Charbucks would love it if all the attention was transferred to Tully's, or McDonalds (who is devouring Charbuk's market share).

    They would simply love to haveall the protesters, reporters, and cameramen go to McDs and talk about the open carry controversy on local, network and cable news shows.

    They'd love it if all the forums talked about McDs instead of Charbucks.

    If all the parodies floating around the web were about McDs instead of Charbucks.

    Yeah, all that free advertising is a major PITA for Charbucks.

    And as Dave Workman discovered when he toed the party line for that Attorney in Vancouver... following the advice of the interested party will NOT necessarily yield the desired results.

    Starbucks said they don't care. Knowing they are libtards and therefore really do want to ban guns, I assume it's just their attempt at marketing and spin. A t-shirt will not influence their decision making process in the slightest.

    Abstaining from exercising your 1st amendment rights (ala Workman in Vancouver) will NOT mean things will go your way.

    A person, company, attorney, or reporter that tells you to not exercise your inalienable, First Amendment rights loses all respect from me.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    Flanders, I think you misinterpret Deros' post. If he has a bias toward Starbucks it's because he has a wonderful relationship with his local Starbucks and with the Safeway within which it's located. Why would he want to see that wonderful relationship marred by anything, even that which was meant in fun?

    Deros has done as much as anyone here to create a positive public view of open carry in general and and OC at Starbucks in particular. His message is correct: Don't ruin a good thing. Starbucks has asked not to be put in the middle and they're on our side even if only through the no-brainer policy of following the law. Hardly a bad thing.

    Your shirts are creative and clever. I would only buy one for myself to wear privately, for the reasons Deros outlined. I await your next shirt design.

    MD

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    Thanks Duck....To give you an Idea...I wasn't feeling to good on monday and the Manager of the Starbucks I usually go to had a large coffee personally delivered to my apt.The manager of the Safeway also hand delivered a box of chocolate chip cookies.I won't do anything to jepordize the repoir Iv'e built up with these folks.I just think wearing one of those around especially into a Starbucks just wouldn't be what I would do.

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    I don't know, our Commander in Chief is certainly all for rubbing noses into victory and openly mocking the opponent.

    Times are changing, maybe weneed to stop our backwards thinking and embrace change?



    I'll take one.Is it $15 for one or $20 for two? If so, I'll take two.

    I disagree that we can't enjoy something like this at all. I have all sorts of "innappropriate" shirts poking fun at various groups.

    I bought a Smiley Face shirt with a bullet hole to the forehead at the last gun show they had at Seattle Center. I actually took my (then) 7 year old son to the show with me and was interviewed by Robert Mak (Mack?) of King 5 TV as I exited. One of the things he asked was what I bought, I politely declined to go into specifics, knowing that showing that shirt under those circyumstances would not be time/place appropriate.

    I also have a "P E T A" shirt, People Eating Tasty Animals. On the back it says "I like cats, I just can't finish a whole one by myself". Not something I wear to work or too often in public, but I don't see anything wrong with it.

    Any one have one of the "Infidel" shirts? I do. I also have a "Taxidermy" shirt that references "Stuffing Beaver since 1973". While I didn't parade around Hiroshima in a "Nuke them til they glow and shoot them in the dark" T-shirt like some folks did while I was stationed there in the service, I DID own one of the shirts. Again, time/place appropriate.

    Who among us has not made "innappropriate" comments or told off-color jokes when in an acceptable environment to do so?How about a collective "Lighten up Francis".

    Trust others to make intelligent decisions. Granted there are always those who don't, but we are going to have those fools anyway. I don't see why I can't exercise my freedoms, liberties, or purchase somethingI like just becausesome idiot doesn't know how to behave in public.

    Heck, parody or satire use may be up for debate, but I think most would see it as such. Not sure if there are any protectios when it comes to political speech, but it might apply as well. I doubt Starbucksis going to go after something thatclearly supports them andhas increased their profits.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Thanks Duck....To give you an Idea...I wasn't feeling to good on monday and the Manager of the Starbucks I usually go to had a large coffee personally delivered to my apt.The manager of the Safeway also hand delivered a box of chocolate chip cookies.I won't do anything to jepordize the repoir Iv'e built up with these folks.I just think wearing one of those around especially into a Starbucks just wouldn't be what I would do.
    Don't take this the wrong way, but just to play "Devil's Advocate", the above statement could be interpreted as you having "Sold out" for your personal benefit.

    You have a good relationship, benefit personally, etc. and now use your voice to try and persuade others to do or not do something even when it may have no effect on the outcome.

    I like the shirt, I want the shirt, I am going to buy the shirt, even though you are trying to convince not only me to not buy the shirt, but are also trying to convince Flanders to not even make them available should someone be interested. I am smart enough not to wear the shirt into Starbucks out of respect for their position, but it might be a good shirt to wear in other instances, say a rally to point out all of the failures of the Brady-bunch and their agenda.

    Hmmm, censorship is almost never a good idea.

    I am certainly not accusing you of any such behavior, just looking at it from a different angle.

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    Machoduck wrote:
    Flanders, I think you misinterpret Deros' post.* If he has a bias toward Starbucks it's because he has a wonderful relationship with his local Starbucks and with the Safeway within which it's located.* Why would he want to see that wonderful relationship marred by anything, even that which was meant in fun?*

    Deros has done as much as anyone here to create a positive public view of open carry in general and and OC at Starbucks in particular.* His message is correct: Don't ruin a good thing.* Starbucks has asked not to be put in the middle and they're on our side even if only through the no-brainer policy of following the law.* Hardly a bad thing.*

    Your shirts are creative and clever.* I would only buy one for myself to wear privately, for the reasons Deros outlined.* I await your next shirt design.*

    MD
    Thanks Duck,

    So I need addresses via PM! In turn I will send you my paypal account. If no paypal, let's just schedule to meet somewhere so you can pick one up in person.

    $15 each
    2 for $20

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    911Boss wrote:
    DEROS72 wrote:
    Thanks Duck....To give you an Idea...I wasn't feeling to good on monday and the Manager of the Starbucks I usually go to had a large coffee personally delivered to my apt.The manager of the Safeway also hand delivered a box of chocolate chip cookies.I won't do anything to jepordize the repoir Iv'e built up with these folks.I just think wearing one of those around especially into a Starbucks just wouldn't be what I would do.
    Don't take this the wrong way, but just to play "Devil's Advocate", the above statement could be interpreted as you having "Sold out" for your personal benefit.

    You have a good relationship, benefit personally, etc. and now use your voice to try and persuade others to do or not do something even when it may have no effect on the outcome.

    I like the shirt, I want the shirt, I am going to buy the shirt, even though you are trying to convince not only me to not buy the shirt, but are also trying to convince Flanders to not even make them available should someone be interested.* I am smart enough not to wear the shirt into Starbucks out of respect for their position, but it might be a good shirt to wear in other instances, say a rally to point out all of the failures of the Brady-bunch and their agenda.

    Hmmm, censorship is almost never a good idea.

    I am certainly not accusing you of any such behavior, just looking at it from a different angle.
    Oh, and I forgot to mention, I have already worn one into starbucks. A couple people laughed, but no one seemed to be against it or even care. It brought a smile to the gals face when she handed me my coffee. Mission accomplished!

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    The Starbucks logo is a federally registered trademark (reg. no. 75386495), and their registration covers the use of the logo to sell "T-shirts, caps, sweatshirts, jackets, aprons and otherclothing items."

    If it were me, I would be concerned about both copyright and trademark infringement. It doesn't seem to me to be worth the hassle and expense if Starbucks comes after you.



    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice.


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    Carpetbagger wrote:
    The Starbucks logo is a federally registered trademark (reg. no. 75386495), and their registration covers the use of the logo to sell "T-shirts, caps, sweatshirts, jackets, aprons and otherclothing items."

    If it were me, I would be concerned about both copyright and trademark infringement. It doesn't seem to me to be worth the hassle and expense if Starbucks comes after you.



    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice.
    For the last time, a satirical re-working of any logo or copyrighted item is FAIR USE under the law. He's not breaking any laws by selling this.

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    DEROS72 wrote:
    Using their logo for that is not good.Leave it alone.They don't want to be in the middle.Things like that will push them the other way making look like we're gloating or just nuts.We don't need to do anything but buy a coffee.Thats is pretty much a copyright infringment and using the same format as the Brady campaign was using.Again don't do anything to acknowledge .We have a vitory there we don't need to do anything else that might piss them off.

    I loose any respect for anyone wearing that shirt.....Really bad idea.


    Real small image...but I think you know what is attached to the board above M1gunr's head. I believe you were there that day too?

    My question is, how is your sign on the board any different from the shirt flaunders007 did?


    Been harassed by the police? Yelled at by the anti-gun neighbors? Mother doesn't approve?

    Then this is the place for you! Click here to get back at them!

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Its quite different in that we were not using or altering their trademark logo.Nor were we trying to gloat over a victory.I beklieve this was before this whole Starbucks thing started.We now don't want to be seen as trying to influence their position like the antis were.They never said they support us but simply follow state law.We need to leave it at that. We have other battles to deal with ...

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    antispam540 wrote:
    Carpetbagger wrote:
    The Starbucks logo is a federally registered trademark (reg. no. 75386495), and their registration covers the use of the logo to sell "T-shirts, caps, sweatshirts, jackets, aprons and otherclothing items."

    If it were me, I would be concerned about both copyright and trademark infringement. It doesn't seem to me to be worth the hassle and expense if Starbucks comes after you.



    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice.
    For the last time, a satirical re-working of any logo or copyrighted item is FAIR USE under the law. He's not breaking any laws by selling this.
    You know, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. You probably should not be spouting off so adamantly when you don't really havea full understanding of the topic. As just one example of your misunderstanding, it is PARODY that is much more likely to be covered by fair use than SATIRE. It is a fine distinction, but there is a distinction nonetheless. (See this article for more info.)

    Fair use is a complex, frequently litigated subject. It is NOT as black and white as you (and many others) seem to think.

    If a copyright or trademark owner come after you for infringement, you can't just say the magic words "FAIR USE" and make it all go away. You could find yourself defending a lawsuit in federal court, with all the costs associated with that. It hardly seems worth the risk to sell a few $15 t-shirts.

    But hell, what do I know? I just practice in this area of law.

    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice.



  23. #23
    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    I like them and I think I'm going to get one. Will I wear it into Starbucks? Yes. While OC? Maybe.
    As far as the saying "I love guns and coffee", that's classic 1st Amendment. I don't see how it could offend anyone.

    It's not like I'm wearing my "F*ck you, You're Irish" shirt in to The Blarney Stone Pub on St. Patrick's day.(I've actually only worn it once to somewhere I knew no one would take offense. One guy said "hey, I'm Irish" so I said "F*ck you, then". Then we both had a good laugh.) It's a parody of all those "Kiss me, I'm Irish" shirts, nobody really thinks I hate Irish people. (I don't, BTW)

    Anyway back to this shirt, as far as copyright infringement, I guess it could be, but all they would do is ask you not to make them anymore. That said, they do like to protect their logo. They have gone after other logos with just words in a circle and a girl in the middle, like Rat City Roller Girls. http://www.seattlepi.com/business/36...buxlogo24.html (Starbucks must have lost)
    I'm surprised they haven't gone after Seattle Motor Pool. I couldn't find a picture of their logo, but it's the same type.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    I like them and I think I'm going to get one. Will I wear it into Starbucks? Yes. While OC? Maybe.
    As far as the saying "I love guns and coffee", that's classic 1st Amendment. I don't see how it could offend anyone.

    It's not like I'm wearing my "F*ck you, You're Irish" shirt in to The Blarney Stone Pub on St. Patrick's day.(I've actually only worn it once to somewhere I knew no one would take offense. One guy said "hey, I'm Irish" so I said "F*ck you, then". Then we both had a good laugh.) It's a parody of all those "Kiss me, I'm Irish" shirts, nobody really thinks I hate Irish people. (I don't, BTW)

    Anyway back to this shirt, as far as copyright infringement, I guess it could be, but all they would do is ask you not to make them anymore. That said, they do like to protect their logo. They have gone after other logos with just words in a circle and a girl in the middle, like Rat City Roller Girls. http://www.seattlepi.com/business/36...buxlogo24.html (Starbucks must have lost)
    I'm surprised they haven't gone after Seattle Motor Pool. I couldn't find a picture of their logo, but it's the same type.
    The "F you I'm Irish" shirt is safe... just dont go to that bar wearing this shirt:



    And if you do, at least pre-call 911 so the ambulance is in route lol
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Carpetbagger wrote:
    You know, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. You probably should not be spouting off so adamantly when you don't really havea full understanding of the topic. As just one example of your misunderstanding, it is PARODY that is much more likely to be covered by fair use than SATIRE. It is a fine distinction, but there is a distinction nonetheless. (See this article for more info.)

    Fair use is a complex, frequently litigated subject. It is NOT as black and white as you (and many others) seem to think.

    If a copyright or trademark owner come after you for infringement, you can't just say the magic words "FAIR USE" and make it all go away. You could find yourself defending a lawsuit in federal court, with all the costs associated with that. It hardly seems worth the risk to sell a few $15 t-shirts.

    But hell, what do I know? I just practice in this area of law.
    If you practice in this area of law, then I'm happy to defer to your opinion. As a registered trademark holder, I've spent a fair amount of time researching what is and isn't fair use of trademarks, as I'm required to defend mine if I want to keep it. You're right, parody is what's stated in the law, but I'm not well-versed in how that's significantly different from satire - I've just seen examples of what is and what isn't fair use.

    As we've all seen, you can be completely in the right as far as the law goes, but still be taken to court over it. For a few t-shirts, I doubt Starbucks will make a huge effort, but I dunno what the threshold is for getting their attention.

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