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OT: I Love Guns & Coffee T-Shirts

DEROS72

DEROS72

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Its quite different in that we were not using or altering their trademark logo.Nor were we trying to gloat over a victory.I beklieve this was before this whole Starbucks thing started.We now don't want to be seen as trying to influence their position like the antis were.They never said they support us but simply follow state law.We need to leave it at that. We have other battles to deal with ...
 
C

Carpetbagger

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antispam540 wrote:
Carpetbagger wrote:
The Starbucks logo is a federally registered trademark (reg. no. 75386495), and their registration covers the use of the logo to sell "T-shirts, caps, sweatshirts, jackets, aprons and other clothing items."

If it were me, I would be concerned about both copyright and trademark infringement. It doesn't seem to me to be worth the hassle and expense if Starbucks comes after you.



[suP]The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice. [/suP]
Click to expand...
For the last time, a satirical re-working of any logo or copyrighted item is FAIR USE under the law. He's not breaking any laws by selling this.
Click to expand...

You know, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. You probably should not be spouting off so adamantly when you don't really havea full understanding of the topic. As just one example of your misunderstanding, it is PARODY that is much more likely to be covered by fair use than SATIRE. It is a fine distinction, but there is a distinction nonetheless. (See this article for more info.)

Fair use is a complex, frequently litigated subject. It is NOT as black and white as you (and many others) seem to think.

If a copyright or trademark owner come after you for infringement, you can't just say the magic words "FAIR USE" and make it all go away. You could find yourself defending a lawsuit in federal court, with all the costs associated with that. It hardly seems worth the risk to sell a few $15 t-shirts.

But hell, what do I know? I just practice in this area of law.

[suP]The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice, and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

In plain English, while I am an attorney, I am NOT your attorney, and I am NOT giving you legal advice. [/suP]
 
trevorthebusdriver

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I like them and I think I'm going to get one. Will I wear it into Starbucks? Yes. While OC? Maybe.
As far as the saying "I love guns and coffee", that's classic 1st Amendment. I don't see how it could offend anyone.

It's not like I'm wearing my "F*ck you, You're Irish" shirt in to The Blarney Stone Pub on St. Patrick's day.(I've actually only worn it once to somewhere I knew no one would take offense. One guy said "hey, I'm Irish" so I said "F*ck you, then". Then we both had a good laugh.) It's a parody of all those "Kiss me, I'm Irish" shirts, nobody really thinks I hate Irish people. (I don't, BTW)

Anyway back to this shirt, as far as copyright infringement, I guess it could be, but all they would do is ask you not to make them anymore. That said, they do like to protect their logo. They have gone after other logos with just words in a circle and a girl in the middle, like Rat City Roller Girls. http://www.seattlepi.com/business/364425_sbuxlogo24.html (Starbucks must have lost)
I'm surprised they haven't gone after Seattle Motor Pool. I couldn't find a picture of their logo, but it's the same type.
 
Dave_pro2a

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trevorthebusdriver wrote:
I like them and I think I'm going to get one. Will I wear it into Starbucks? Yes. While OC? Maybe.
As far as the saying "I love guns and coffee", that's classic 1st Amendment. I don't see how it could offend anyone.

It's not like I'm wearing my "F*ck you, You're Irish" shirt in to The Blarney Stone Pub on St. Patrick's day.(I've actually only worn it once to somewhere I knew no one would take offense. One guy said "hey, I'm Irish" so I said "F*ck you, then". Then we both had a good laugh.) It's a parody of all those "Kiss me, I'm Irish" shirts, nobody really thinks I hate Irish people. (I don't, BTW)

Anyway back to this shirt, as far as copyright infringement, I guess it could be, but all they would do is ask you not to make them anymore. That said, they do like to protect their logo. They have gone after other logos with just words in a circle and a girl in the middle, like Rat City Roller Girls. http://www.seattlepi.com/business/364425_sbuxlogo24.html (Starbucks must have lost)
I'm surprised they haven't gone after Seattle Motor Pool. I couldn't find a picture of their logo, but it's the same type.
Click to expand...

The "F you I'm Irish" shirt is safe... just dont go to that bar wearing this shirt:

oliver_cromwell_banned_t_shirt-p235622434796966985t5e4_400.jpg


And if you do, at least pre-call 911 so the ambulance is in route lol
 
A

antispam540

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Carpetbagger wrote:
You know, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. You probably should not be spouting off so adamantly when you don't really havea full understanding of the topic. As just one example of your misunderstanding, it is PARODY that is much more likely to be covered by fair use than SATIRE. It is a fine distinction, but there is a distinction nonetheless. (See this article for more info.)

Fair use is a complex, frequently litigated subject. It is NOT as black and white as you (and many others) seem to think.

If a copyright or trademark owner come after you for infringement, you can't just say the magic words "FAIR USE" and make it all go away. You could find yourself defending a lawsuit in federal court, with all the costs associated with that. It hardly seems worth the risk to sell a few $15 t-shirts.

But hell, what do I know? I just practice in this area of law.
Click to expand...
If you practice in this area of law, then I'm happy to defer to your opinion. As a registered trademark holder, I've spent a fair amount of time researching what is and isn't fair use of trademarks, as I'm required to defend mine if I want to keep it. You're right, parody is what's stated in the law, but I'm not well-versed in how that's significantly different from satire - I've just seen examples of what is and what isn't fair use.

As we've all seen, you can be completely in the right as far as the law goes, but still be taken to court over it. For a few t-shirts, I doubt Starbucks will make a huge effort, but I dunno what the threshold is for getting their attention.
 
gogodawgs

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I noticed that optactical.com who had the guns and coffee patches.... removed the picture from their webiste, however 'The Patch' is still available to purchase... hmmmm
 
amzbrady

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OK, heres my two cents. I dont think I would be trying to thank starbucks for following state laws and not banning guns in their stores by getting their CEO's talking to their lawyers about "those gun guys". Second the shirt does look cool, although I dont think I would own a shirt with a gal who's chi chi's were so small that you cant even see her cleavage. Might not even be a girl, maybe itsa feminin looking hippy guy with long hair. Or maybe a transvestite, that would also explain the lack of cleavage. By the look of that crown the transvestite is celebrating Mardi Gras in California. Nope, none for me.
 
C

Carpetbagger

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antispam540 wrote:
Carpetbagger wrote:
You know, a little bit of information is a dangerous thing. You probably should not be spouting off so adamantly when you don't really havea full understanding of the topic. As just one example of your misunderstanding, it is PARODY that is much more likely to be covered by fair use than SATIRE. It is a fine distinction, but there is a distinction nonetheless. (See this article for more info.)

Fair use is a complex, frequently litigated subject. It is NOT as black and white as you (and many others) seem to think.

If a copyright or trademark owner come after you for infringement, you can't just say the magic words "FAIR USE" and make it all go away. You could find yourself defending a lawsuit in federal court, with all the costs associated with that. It hardly seems worth the risk to sell a few $15 t-shirts.

But hell, what do I know? I just practice in this area of law.
Click to expand...
If you practice in this area of law, then I'm happy to defer to your opinion. As a registered trademark holder, I've spent a fair amount of time researching what is and isn't fair use of trademarks, as I'm required to defend mine if I want to keep it. You're right, parody is what's stated in the law, but I'm not well-versed in how that's significantly different from satire - I've just seen examples of what is and what isn't fair use.

As we've all seen, you can be completely in the right as far as the law goes, but still be taken to court over it. For a few t-shirts, I doubt Starbucks will make a huge effort, but I dunno what the threshold is for getting their attention.
Click to expand...
The bolded part above is really the bottom line. Whether you have a good argument or not, you lose as soon as some big company puts you in their sights. Most people cannot afford to fight. When it involves such a gray area, I think it is much better to play it safe.
 
jbone

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SNIP: "Political satire is a significant part of satire that specializes in gaining entertainment from politics; it has also been used with subversive intent where political speech and dissent are forbidden by a regime, as a method of advancing political arguments where such arguments are expressly forbidden.

Political satire is usually distinguished from political protest or political dissent, as it does not necessarily carry an agenda nor seek to influence the political process. While occasionally it may, it more commonly aims simply to provide entertainment. By its very nature, it rarely offers a constructive view in itself; when it is used as part of protest or dissent, it tends to simply establish the error of matters rather than provide solutions"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_satire
 
OrangeIsTrouble

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I am just going to say this now.

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!

A person that quotes from there CANNOT BE trusted.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
jbone

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Poosharker wrote:
I am just going to say this now.

PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE FROM WIKIPEDIA, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!

A person that quotes from there CANNOT BE trusted.

:banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
Is your issue with the Source of mearly some info, or with me?
 
OrangeIsTrouble

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The source, I got no issue with you. In fact I am not even paying attention to this thread as it seems silly (the issue). But wikipedia cannot be trusted, yes, some of the info is true...but there are morons who put dumb stuff on there.

BTW, I am not getting email notifications, anyone else? Just this morning.
 
gogodawgs

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Poosharker wrote:
The source, I got no issue with you. In fact I am not even paying attention to this thread as it seems silly (the issue). But wikipedia cannot be trusted, yes, some of the info is true...but there are morons who put dumb stuff on there.

BTW, I am not getting email notifications, anyone else? Just this morning.
Click to expand...

Nope, no email notifications this morning. It happens from time to time.

Wiki must be used with caution. In the cite above everything looks good to go...
 
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