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Thread: How did the police know this?

  1. #1
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    I was recently stopped by a police department. He ran my CPL and it came back that I owned a .45 and a 9mm and I had a valid CPL. I heard the dispatcher say it over the radio? How do they know this and is there a way I can get this record removed?



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    Kildars wrote:
    is there a way I can get this record removed?

    That's easy. Sell your guns. Buy new ones via FTF private sale, cash, no receipt.


    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

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    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Is there a way I could get this record removed and still keep my current firearms?

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    Once they have information, they have it forever.

    They probably have that info because the DOL has copies of pistol transfer forms you filled out at gun shops. If you never filled any such form out, then it's beyond me. As to why it's any of the DOL's business who legally owns what firearms, well, it's really not. If you were to sell it to someone else and have them fill out the form and send it in, then it would be under their name.

    I've purchased from stores, and I no longer have any of the firearms I bought in stores. I only own ones I've acquired through private transactions. If someday they come knocking on my door asking about some pistol I owned in the past, well, I no longer have it. Too bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

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    you got me curious, think I will have a LEO run my DL or CPL and see what comes up......it might be interesting

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Just remember, there is no "gun registration." The government just, umm, err, knows what you buy.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    I had a boating tip over last summer. I did a lot of trading and selling at the gun show. What 9mm are you talking about
    officer? Thats been gone for years sold it to some guy in Mt Vernon.

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    Landpimp wrote:
    you got me curious, think I will have a LEO run my DL or CPL and see what comes up......it might be interesting
    I was thinking the same thing. The dispatcher's gonna be spending some time reading if that's common practice.

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    Did you register your guns?

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Did you register your guns?
    Me? Yeah, only one of them was a private sale.

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    This only works for handguns. There is no state form for long guns.

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    Simple DOL check will return whether you have a CPL and what it's status is and list any handgun purchases made form an FFL in WA. state.

    Dept of Licensing is charged with maintaining a database of info from the "
    State application to transfer pistol or revolver" (http://www.dol[highlight= rgb(255, 255, 136);].wa.gov/business/firearms/652001x.pdf), this is the blue state form you fill out when buying a handgun from an FFL, and it is there forever.

    If the gun is stolen, or if you sell it and fill out the private transfer form (http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652004.pdf) it may come off of your record[highlight= rgb(136, 255, 136);], I honestly don't know if they remove it or if they just make a notation in the file.

    If you sell it, all buyer and seller info must be filled out and must have both signatures. The gun will then be listed under the new owners name.


    This recordof sale info (along with CPL status) is then available with a simple query of DOL records. More and more agencies seem to be automating this check so it is done on traffic stops. Personally, I think returning pistol purchase info is a violation of the state law regarding it's release, but until someone challenges that (and wins) it will continue to be done.

    Relevant RCWs:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.129

    RCW 9.41.129 - Record Keeping Requirements.

    The department of licensing may keep copies or records of applications for concealed pistol licenses provided for in RCW 9.41.070, copies or records of applications for alien firearm licenses, copies or records of applications to purchase pistols provided for in RCW 9.41.090, and copies or records of pistol transfers provided for in RCW 9.41.110.
    The copies and records shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW 42.56.240(4).


    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=42.56.240

    RCW 42.56.240 - Investigative, law enforcement, and crime victims.

    The following investigative, law enforcement, and crime victim information is exempt from public inspection and copying under this chapter:

    ...

    (4) License applications under RCW 9.41.070; copies of license applications or information on the applications may be released to law enforcement or corrections agencies;

    ...


    The ONLY topic in covered 9.41.070 is Concealed Pistol Licenses. It makes NO mention of the "State application to transfer pistol or revolver" so it seems to me that disclosing this info, even to law enforcement, is an express violation of state law.



    Unfortunately,this means if you are fickle and like to buy guns new, but then get bored with them or decide to sell them to fund something else, you may appear on paper to have some sort of armory. For example, my record shows about 15 handguns purchased over the past twenty years or so, yet I only own a handful of handguns at this time.

    If the dispatcher said you "own" those guns, he/she was incorrect. All they really know is that at sometime you purchased them. I have bought guns and to legitimately and legally give as gifts to others who were legal to own them. They were "my" gun only long enough to wrap and deliver.

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    I asked 2 PC and 2 TPD today, it(guns owned, registered)will not come up with your CPL, its a seperate check(as above post) and none of them could recall doing one on a normal stop.

    I was going to have them run me thru the DOL......but we didnt have the time



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    Landpimp wrote:
    I asked 2 PC and 2 TPD today, it(guns owned, registered)will not come up with your CPL, its a seperate check(as above post) and none of them could recall doing one on a normal stop.
    I have a side question... Will the fact that you have a CPL come up on a normal stop?

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    I "think" they said yes, but it wasnt really what I was asking, will ask tommorow



    midiwall wrote:
    Landpimp wrote:
    I asked 2 PC and 2 TPD today, it(guns owned, registered)will not come up with your CPL, its a seperate check(as above post) and none of them could recall doing one on a normal stop.
    I have a side question... Will the fact that you have a CPL come up on a normal stop?

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    Landpimp wrote:
    I asked 2 PC and 2 TPD today, it(guns owned, registered)will not come up with your CPL, its a seperate check(as above post) and none of them could recall doing one on a normal stop.

    I was going to have them run me thru the DOL......but we didnt have the time

    Actually it will come up in a single check. If YOU are run through the state ACCESS system (computer that interfaces with DOL and WACIC ) with the proper inquiry, it will return your CPL status AND any record of dealer purchased firearms in a single response.

    It will not come up on a standard DOL driver's license/ID inquiry. The inquiry needs to be made of the Gun/CPL database. This is a separate check. HOWEVER, some agencies have programmed their CAD (Computer Aided Dispatch) systems to automatically generate the individual inquires when a person is run on a routine stop.

    Basically it works like this, there is a Federal crime info system (NCIC), a state crime info system (WACIC), and DOL. When an officer pulls someone over or makes contact and gets ID, they "run" a name. The dispatcher enters the command in CAD, as an example for our system that command is "QP N/SMITH, JOHN S D/112563" "QP"= Query Person, "N/"=Name, "D/"=Date of birth.

    The CAD system formats the information provided and sends out two (or three?) messages through ACCESS (the State run "doorway" to the information systems). One message goes to WACIC (WA Crime Information Center) and returns WA state info such as warrants issued by WA courts, Restraining/Protective orders, etc. The other message goes to DOL and returns Driver License/ID info.

    I am not entirely sure if there is a third message that goes to NCIC (National Crime Information Center), or if WACIC merely forwards to NCIC. The specifics don't really matter for the sake of this discussion. Suffice to say, the info goes to NCIC and it returns out of state Felony information.

    Some agencies are programming their CAD to take the info and ALSO do a third (or fourth?) inquiry, sending a SECOND message to DOL to check the Gun/CPL database. In this case, you will get the driver's license return, and in a separate response get the Gun/CPL info. The Gun/CPL stuff is combined on a single return.

    The inquiry of the Gun/CPL database can be made by Name/DOB, in which case it will return CPL info and dealer purchased firearms. The Gun/CPL database can also be checked using a firearm serial number, in which case the purchaser information will return. I don't recall off the top of my head if CPL info comes up when just running a S/N. I will try to remember to run one and see tomorrow.

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    midiwall wrote:
    I have a side question... Will the fact that you have a CPL come up on a normal stop?
    Depends on the agency doing the stop and how they have programmed their computers or Dispatchers to use the info.

    It seems to be getting more popular to do it, some agencies the system does it, other may train their Dispatchers to routinely make the gun inquiry as there is no additional info needed to do so.

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    Additional side question.

    It could come back that someone without a CPL and have a 'purchase' inquiry run on them? Officer's may look differently at mulitiple handgun purchases W/O a CPL?
    Live Free or Die!

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    gogodawgs wrote:
    Additional side question.

    It could come back that someone without a CPL and have a 'purchase' inquiry run on them? Officer's may look differently at mulitiple handgun purchases W/O a CPL?
    Don't know why they would, no requirement for a CPL to purchase or own and no limit.

  20. #20
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    good info!



    911Boss wrote:
    .

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    Ditto!

    Thank You 911!

    Landpimp wrote:
    good info!



    911Boss wrote:
    .

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    Kildars wrote:
    He ran my CPL and it came back that I owned a .45 and a 9mm
    Me: "No I don't. Where'd you hear that?"



    PS Unless, of course, you are carrying one of them on you.


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    heresolong wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    He ran my CPL and it came back that I owned a .45 and a 9mm
    Me:* "No I don't.* Where'd you hear that?"



    PS Unless, of course, you are carrying one of them on you.*
    Aren't you supposed to be teaching someone something right about now?
    I am the person responsible for myself, my wife and my son. I take that VERY seriously.

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    tyguy808 wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    He ran my CPL and it came back that I owned a .45 and a 9mm
    Me: "No I don't. Where'd you hear that?"



    PS Unless, of course, you are carrying one of them on you.
    Aren't you supposed to be teaching someone something right about now?
    I thought I was.

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    heresolong wrote:
    tyguy808 wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    He ran my CPL and it came back that I owned a .45 and a 9mm
    Me: "No I don't. Where'd you hear that?"



    PS Unless, of course, you are carrying one of them on you.
    Aren't you supposed to be teaching someone something right about now?
    I thought I was.
    LOL..
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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