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Thread: First Run In With LEOs While OC'ing

  1. #1
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    The other night i was OCing my ruger p95 and jumped in my buddy's car along with my gf and his gf. We passed by a LEO that was on the side of the road (doing whatever they do). As soon as we passed her, she pulled out behind us. We were not speeding or doing anything illegal. She then switched lanes to the one beside us and i knew she was running our plates. We had to take a left and when we did so, she began to light us up. I grabbed my piece (in the holster) and put it on the dashboard. She came up to my friend and asked for license and i told her "just to let u know i have a pistol" she shined her light on it and then called for back up (as i figure with her code talk) She told me not to touch it and i said i wouldnt. she came to my side and grabbed it and took it to her car. Her back up then arrived and after awhile they asked me to step out of the car. The back up leo asked why i was carrying and i told him for protection. i wanted them to know i was aware of my laws so i let him know that i did everything correctly by law. he said "oh no i dont have a problem with it, i just want to know why people carry." they held my gun the whole time and then they said they were going to put it in the trunk and when they left that i could then get it out. i was like are u serious?? the whole reason why they pulled us over was because my buddy had an expired tag on his license plate and his license plate light was out. I GUESS lol.

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    I have spoken with police officers that state the same...some don't care if you have the firearm and ask you to keep your hands off, some will take the firearm and then place it in your trunk. Not the end of the world, just do what they ask and move on with your life.

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    Grabbing your piece was probably not a good idea- no matter your intentions. The fact that it was already in the holster made it legal (perhaps putting it in a map pocket but it didn't have to be on the dash board). If a cop were to see you putting it up there, it could have gone very badly. Generally handling your pistol in the middle of a traffic stop is the last thing you want to do.

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    This could be a very sneaky way to get you to open your trunk, which equals a visual search, without any PC.



    Since the original activity was legal, I wonder what would happen if the owner said "No, just put it back where you found it."

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    You are not required to inform them in the first place. If you had simply kept wearing it on your person I highly doubt it would have even been an issue (that is to say, I am assuming her interest would have been in the driver of the car, and not the passengers). Now if for some reason your driver had said some dumb-@$$ed thing to giver her PC to ask all passengers to step out of the vehicle, at that point I would have informed her I was armed. However, putting it in the trunk has absolutely nothing to do with officer safety and is just a way to get a visual search. Highly questionable officer conduct at best.

    But, no harm no foul, and sounds like you handled the encounter pretty well. Just keep your rights in mind, and don't voluntarily waive them for any reason, unless ya just really really want to

    Carry on!
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    hmm i didnt even think about that. now that u mention it that was a pretty sneaky way to do a quick visual search lol. but yeah i had already grabbed it and was ready to put it on the dash right when she lit us up so i wasnt reaching for it while she was walkin up. but ill keep all of this in mind

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    However, putting it in the trunk has absolutely nothing to do with officer safety and is just a way to get a visual search
    The officers I spoke with here in Tempe stated they (some officers) do actually put the firearm in the trunk at times just for that reason alone. They stated it's based on the first contact made with the driver of the vehicle.

    I agree with you, I would not have removed the firearm and put it on the dash...you are doing nothing wrong.

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    I wouldn't have told the cop anything. It's not rude or imprudent to say nothing.

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    PYRO PSR wrote:
    "just to let u know i have a pistol"
    she came to my side and grabbed it and took it to her car.
    The back up leo asked why i was carrying and i told him for protection. i wanted them to know i was aware of my laws so i let him know that i did everything correctly by law.
    1. "Please shoot me, or at least wrestle me to the ground and cuff me. Deprive me of my means of self defense."

    2. How can she grab a gun that's inside a vehicle? The windows should be up and doorslocked. If an officer tries to seize your property, demand to see the warrant.

    3. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you. See "Don't Talk to the Police" on YouTube.

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    I always keep my pistol in the holster for that reason. I usually let them know im carrying just to be polite and show them I have nothing to hide, but there is no way I would have them unholster it and hold it for me.

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    Yard Sale wrote:
    PYRO PSR wrote:
    "just to let u know i have a pistol"
    she came to my side and grabbed it and took it to her car.
    The back up leo asked why i was carrying and i told him for protection. i wanted them to know i was aware of my laws so i let him know that i did everything correctly by law.
    1. "Please shoot me, or at least wrestle me to the ground and cuff me. Deprive me of my means of self defense."

    2. How can she grab a gun that's inside a vehicle? The windows should be up and doorslocked. If an officer tries to seize your property, demand to see the warrant.

    3. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you. See "Don't Talk to the Police" on YouTube.
    no warrant needed here in arizona an officer has the right to take custody of your weapon during the interaction,this is taught in every ccw class here,but there is no law saying you have to tell them in the first place-its just common practice-if your driving and dont tell them when your pulled over say its in the glove box next to your registration;now you open and reach the cop draws down on you and you move it to get papers from under it (should i say try to move it cause the cop shot you when you touched it!)thats only one of many scenarios...Ill tell um and now everthying is on the table---we BOTH go home to our families,just dont say IVE GOT A GUN,mellow say i liked to inform you that im armed...well thats just me im not in your car your not in mine so do whatever you think is best at the time...

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    Say you had drugs in the trunk, the officer tells you that hes going to put your gun in the trunk, then sees the drugs, could they even legally use that against you since technically it was a wrongful search?
    Im against drugs 100%, but it would be interesting to know if they could do anything more than take the drugs?

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    i dont know but if this was the case i think now you would be arrested for transporting drugs(smuggling) and having a firearm in the commission of a felony is a nice way to tack on time and increase the crime...i myself would never even think about this senario,maybe cause i dont uses drugs and to be a legal firearms owner a person must not be a drug user or felon;reverting back to the transport even if you dont use smuggling is a felony...troll

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    no warrant needed here in arizona an officer has the right to take custody of your weapon during the interaction,this is taught in every ccw class here
    Please cite. I'm not disagreeing with you, just curious to how accurate this statement is. My initial reaction is "Can't be?!? In Arizona?" My family is in AZ and I visit often.

    By the way, officers acting in their official duty have "powers", not rights.

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    brokenbarrel wrote:
    i dont know but if this was the case i think now you would be arrested for transporting drugs(smuggling) and having a firearm in the commission of a felony is a nice way to tack on time and increase the crime...i myself would never even think about this senario,maybe cause i dont uses drugs and to be a legal firearms owner a person must not be a drug user or felon;reverting back to the transport even if you dont use smuggling is a felony...troll
    Well i was just using it as an example, because i thought it might be not valid in court since it was foud wtihout a warrant or probably cause.
    I do no use drugs, or go anywhere near them.

    And troll??

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    *1911_man* wrote:
    brokenbarrel wrote:
    i dont know but if this was the case i think now you would be arrested for transporting drugs(smuggling) and having a firearm in the commission of a felony is a nice way to tack on time and increase the crime...i myself would never even think about this senario,maybe cause i dont uses drugs and to be a legal firearms owner a person must not be a drug user or felon;reverting back to the transport even if you dont use smuggling is a felony...troll
    Well i was just using it as an example, because i thought it might be not valid in court since it was foud wtihout a warrant or probably cause.
    I do no use drugs, or go anywhere near them.

    And troll??
    Some people here lately throw the troll epitaph to lightly - it was not warranted here.

    When you consent to open the trunk voluntarily, nothing the officer sees constitutes an illegal search. Because you consented to the search, they can use anything they gained from the search as evidence in any case now or in the future.

    Officers are constantly looking for violations - don't help them. What's in your trunk - in this case your friend's? Maybe a pry bar, screw driver, glass cutter and boxes bulging with electronic equipment - and maybe there was a break in at Radio Shack earlier.

    The fact that I am a good citizen will not cause me to create problems for myself. I hate the "if you have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" argument.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    A bit of advance thinking is not difficult. Put you registration someplace other than the gun. If you reach for the registration... that's no 'gun' to put your boogerhooks on to get to the registration. Duhh... it's not rocket science.

    'Nuther thing... if you dress like a ghetto hoodlum... you're gonna beprofiled as a ghetto hoodlum. If you got that BOOM BOOM BOOM crap vibratin' the neighborhood out of you ride... and got that goofy hat thing goin' on you're gonna attract unwanted attention. This ain't L.A.... or Detroit.

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    i use the term troll for anyone that uses senarios that may have people answer questions that can be twisted by the brady bunch!So even if your not one of them giving them little tid bits is the same as being one(in my opinion)...

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    A vehicle stop is always a time in which a law enforcement officer (leo) is at a state of hyper alertness. It starts with the take down, to the positioning of the patrol vehicle, to the positioning of the front wheels, exiting the patrol vehicle, the approach to the suspect vehicle, looking into the vehicle and visually searching the occupants and the interior. There are other actions taken also, but I am painting a picture that indicates the only actions taken by a leo, are not just calling dispatch and then obtaining license and registration with some open questions to the occupants of the vehicle. Think this over also. When you put your weapon on the dash board, did you have positive control over the weapon? Who's weapon was it then? From this point on the continuum of the use of force is an option. There is never a time a leo should or will assume that what is said or done is truthful, it might very well be coming from your point of view, but the officer just arrived and this is the way you have introduced yourself to him/her for the first time. Thank God all went well. The potential for a really bad civilian/officer encounter was in the making. Think of it like a dance. One leads and the other follows. The officer is leading and all you have to do is follow. If you want to make a vehicle stop a more pleasant experience, then try a few of these actions that will show cooperation. Pull over as soon as you can and as far as possible off the side of the road. Turn off the ignition of the vehicle. Turn on the interior lights of the vehicle making it easier for the officer to see inside. Place your hands in plain view of the officer.; driver on the steering wheel and passengers on their laps or dashboard palms up. Have your license and registration easily accessible before you begin your drive. Cooperation and courtesy well ensure a safe and pleasant encounter with law enforcement.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    A bit of advance thinking is not difficult. Put you registration someplace other than the gun. If you reach for the registration... that's no 'gun' to put your boogerhooks on to get to the registration. Duhh... it's not rocket science.
    This got me to thinking about something I was considering the other night. Probably a good idea to carry your wallet and/or CCW permit (if you have one) and/or identification/license in a pocket not near where you carry your gun on your person, either.

    I walk a lot at night, and generally I carry concealed when I do that, mainly because the most comfortable holster I have is IWB. Anyway, that's on my right rear hip. I always carry my wallet in my left pocket so if I get stopped (happens all the time - walking at night is apparently "suspicious"), I can get at my ID without bringing my hand near my gun.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    I think some of you are making way too much out of this. I am in no way trying to preach to the choir here but it seems like some are confused as to how encountering law enforcement may or may not work.

    Whoever said LEOs are hyper-alert when making a vehicle stop are correct (or a street Terry stop for that matter). When you, the motorist, are stopped, the correct position to put the LEO at ease is motor off, window down, dome light on, both hand on wheel and CLEARLY VISIBLE from the rearward approach. Also it you have time to have your paperwork ready and on your dash so you do not have to touch it, this helps too. These preparations will show the LEO that A) you are not hiding anything (like a gun to shoot him/her), B) you are not going to squeal your tires and peel out and/or run him/her over. This indicates a compliant nature and would be very important in the event of a police report (as opposed to non-compliant, combative, etc...)

    The same applied is you are walking or on a bike. If you see flashing lights, dismount your bike, place your hands up in a compliant position and do not move until instructed.

    This does not yield and civil liberties. It simply shows the LEO that you are compliant and ready to listen to him/her.

    THEN if at any point movement on your part is required, you should clearly tell the LEO exactly what you are going to do. "I am going to get you my CWP. It is in my wallet in my rear left pocket. I am wearing a Glock 22 in a cross-draw holster on my left side. I have no intention to remove the weapon from its holster."

    Etc. etc. you get the picture. Communicate.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

  22. #22
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    PYRO PSR wrote:
    The other night i was OCing my ruger p95 and jumped in my buddy's car along with my gf and his gf. We passed by a LEO that was on the side of the road (doing whatever they do). As soon as we passed her, she pulled out behind us. We were not speeding or doing anything illegal. ...SNIP....
    While you personally were not doing anything illegal your buddy was by having expired tags.

    This is just a general statement, if you obey the traffic laws, you don't get pulled over. handling your weapon was probably not the best thing to do but it did not seem it have an effect. As there seems to be some gray areas about car carry and OC a good CYA is to have a CCW

    I have my insurance and registration in a envelope stuck in the passenger sun visor, that way I do not have to open the glove box and exposing that area to a visual search. I also would not open the trunk on the request of a police office, not because I have anything to hide but because I have a constitutional right to be secure in my person, house, papers, and effects.

    Politely exercising your Rights does not make you a bad person.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

  23. #23
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    mFonz77 wrote:
    THEN if at any point movement on your part is required, you should clearly tell the LEO exactly what you are going to do. "I am going to get you my CWP. It is in my wallet in my rear left pocket. I am wearing a Glock 22 in a cross-draw holster on my left side. I have no intention to remove the weapon from its holster.
    In other words, declare that I am carrying a pistol.

    This is the problem. I get stopped just for walking at night fairly regularly, which to me is completely unreasonable, but whatever.

    At that point, my behavior ("There is no glowing yellow orb in the sky and someone is perambulating! SUSPICIOUS!") is already suspicious. I am not particularly keen on saying, given the weirdness of the situation already, "Oh and by the way I have a gun too."

    The reality of the situation is I shouldn't be stopped *at all*, but I guess that's too much to ask.

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    crisisweasel wrote:
    here is no glowing yellow orb in the sky and someone is perambulating! SUSPICIOUS!"
    I've always hated this crap.

    How dare you be a mobile biped during a time when a giant gravitationally-fueled fusion reactor is on the other side of the planet from you!!! How dare you!

    "It was dark" is a condition of nature and universal physics. Yet LEOs use it as a factor in declaring YOUR actions to be somehow 'suspicious.'

    It's happened t me a few times. The last one asked me "What are you doing in leaning int he back door of that Van at 2AM?" To which I responded "If I could make time fast-forward, or cause the Sun to rise right now, I'd gladly do so; because this is a pain in the dark."

    She didn't like that... Oh well.

    It was my van, in my driveway. Had the giant fusion reactor in the sky been on the same side of the planet as myself, would anything have been said? So, exactly how is a map of the solar system any relation? I may as well say "Hey, why are you tying your shoes while children in China are starving?" It is completely unrelated and contributes nothing to a 'totality of circumstance' or RAS/PC.

    It's like a broader version of "Shopping while Black." But since they do it to everyone, not just Blacks, it's OK...?

    I have no control over the position of the Sun, as such, it is not part of my behavior...

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