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Thread: This video is worthy of its own thread

  1. #1
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

    DO NOT talk to cops if they believe that you have committed a crime!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Correct, this and the Busted video are critical.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
    Live Free or Die!

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    Or even if they don't - because you never know, and they don't have to tell you.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    swatspyder wrote:
    Here are the details... Everyone needs to watch this!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
    I have viewed this a couple of times to include the 2nd half with an ex law enforcement officer.
    This attorney represents CRIMINALS not those who have acted in self defense and are innocent.

    Even though there is some good parts in this video as you do not want to get into trying to convince someone or search for acceptance from law enforcement as people have a tendency of modifying what they actually know in hopes to get that feeling someone believes me.
    If these little additions are not consistent with evidence then it will be viewed as you are hiding something and will become suspect.

    If involved in a shooting, where one may screw up as with not wanting to be viewed as being weak, when asked "were you scared?" and reply with "of what him?" Oh! You Were Not In Fear For Your Life!

    If you literally go by what the attorney says there is a good chance that witnesses or even evidence supporting your innocence could be lost for ever.

    My personal view is " I was in fear for my life, he came at me with a knife and I shot him in Self Defense" and then use the 4 W's, Who What Where and When and leave the Why when you have had time to calm down and seek council.

    You do not want to be seen as not being cooperative with the basic information but they should understand anything beyond that, as if they were involved in a shooting they also will need to seek council before questioning.

    Do not get the impression that I feel the entire video is useless as that is not true there are some good points but issues that one really needs to consider modifying.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  5. #5
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Here are the details... Everyone needs to watch this!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
    I have viewed this a couple of times to include the 2nd half with an ex law enforcement officer.
    This attorney represents CRIMINALS not those who have acted in self defense and are innocent.

    Even though there is some good parts in this video as you do not want to get into trying to convince someone or search for acceptance from law enforcement as people have a tendency of modifying what they actually know in hopes to get that feeling someone believes me.
    If these little additions are not consistent with evidence then it will be viewed as you are hiding something and will become suspect.

    If involved in a shooting, where one may screw up as with not wanting to be viewed as being weak, when asked "were you scared?" and reply with "of what him?" Oh! You Were Not In Fear For Your Life!

    If you literally go by what the attorney says there is a good chance that witnesses or even evidence supporting your innocence could be lost for ever.

    My personal view is " I was in fear for my life, he came at me with a knife and I shot him in Self Defense" and then use the 4 W's, Who What Where and When and leave the Why when you have had time to calm down and seek council.

    You do not want to be seen as not being cooperative with the basic information but they should understand anything beyond that, as if they were involved in a shooting they also will need to seek council before questioning.

    I digress back to the topic, if he did what the news is reporting, they have done more harm to the cause then many here have accomplished.

    Sorry, but saying nothing would still be better in this situation. Your lawyer and the court would settle the incident. Not what the police officer "heard."

    Let your lawyer do the talking!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    So you are just involved in a shooting, your attorney likely not available until tomorrow.

    Oh wait do not say anything, so does this mean you do not call the police? remember do not say anything.

    Before police get there someone grabs and runs off with the weapon you were being threatened with, do you still keep your mouth shut?
    Do you call 911 even to asked for medical or do you say nothing?
    or the knife was kicked into a street drain, still do you say anything?
    How about witnesses that seen the entire incident but do not want to wait around, do you still not say anything?
    They asked you for your information and you do not say anything?
    It was in Self Defense and you do not claim Self Defense?

    If you end up questioning to why you did what you did or you are in interrogation then let your lawyer be there to advise you.

    Massad Ayoob comes to the Puget Sound I believe every year, your butt need to be in one of those chairs and be open to what he has to say.
    Firearms Academy of Seattle Sponsors him.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  7. #7
    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    So you are just involved in a shooting, your attorney likely not available until tomorrow.

    Oh wait do not say anything, so does this mean you do not call the police? remember do not say anything.

    Before police get there someone grabs and runs off with the weapon you were being threatened with, do you still keep your mouth shut?
    Do you call 911 even to asked for medical or do you say nothing?
    or the knife was kicked into a street drain, still do you say anything?
    How about witnesses that seen the entire incident but do not want to wait around, do you still not say anything?
    They asked you for your information and you do not say anything?
    It was in Self Defense and you do not claim Self Defense?

    If you end up questioning to why you did what you did or you are in interrogation then let your lawyer be there to advise you.

    Massad Ayoob comes to the Puget Sound I believe every year, your butt need to be in one of those chairs and be open to what he has to say.
    Firearms Academy of Seattle Sponsors him.
    Stop trolling and throwing out scenarios. Not saying ANYTHING will make sure you DO NOT incriminate yourself in ANY way.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    That is the best you can do Swatty?

    "Not saying ANYTHING will make sure you DO NOT incriminate yourself in ANY way."

    "Incriminate" that would imply you did something WRONG and ILLEGAL?

    To claim Self Defense you need to claim it from the GET GO, which switches how this case is handled, do you know how it changes?


    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Everyday there are law abiding citizens that are involved in some sort of contact with Law Enforcement to included firearms issues to self defense shooting and hmm they talk to Police and yet not all are arrested or charged, why is that?

    In our society we attend school for 12 years and others that continue on to higher education and some to trade schools to do what, provide for their future and have security in it to provide for themselves and their families.

    Yet when such a grave responsibility we assume to exercising our 2nd Amendment Rights, which can take away everything you worked and your freedom, just because you did not prepare by seeking out professional education.

    It is not to say there are those that will reach the end goal but will not normally reach or achieve in the same time frame, why not be an achiever.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Let's not forget everyday innocent people are also arrested and locked up for simply talking to LEO.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I'm a criminal defense attorney. I mostly represent criminals, with a fair amount of innocent people who were just defending themselves thrown into the mix.

    If I was involved in a self-defense shooting, I would not agree to be interrogated by the police, no matter how righteous I thought the shooting was. There is very little upside, and a potentially tremendous downside.

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    swatspyder wrote:
    Part 1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE

    DO NOT talk to cops if they believe that you have committed a crime!
    Nice JamBog.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    olypendrew wrote:
    I'm a criminal defense attorney. I mostly represent criminals, with a fair amount of innocent people who were just defending themselves thrown into the mix.

    If I was involved in a self-defense shooting, I would not agree to be interrogated by the police, no matter how righteous I thought the shooting was. There is very little upside, and a potentially tremendous downside.
    I am glad you chimed in here, you address interrogation and I whole heartily agree, how about at the initial contact at the scene?

    The Police arrive at the scene, do you recommend for clients to shut up and not say anything? What would be appropriate to convey to Police about evidence, witnesses who the players are, and that you acted in self defense.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Let's not forget everyday innocent people are also arrested and locked up for simply talking to LEO.
    Do you have a cite for that? (that is your favorite reply correct?)


    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    olypendrew wrote:
    I'm a criminal defense attorney. I mostly represent criminals, with a fair amount of innocent people who were just defending themselves thrown into the mix.

    If I was involved in a self-defense shooting, I would not agree to be interrogated by the police, no matter how righteous I thought the shooting was. There is very little upside, and a potentially tremendous downside.
    I am glad you chimed in here, you address interrogation and I whole heartily agree, how about at the initial contact at the scene?

    The Police arrive at the scene, do you recommend for clients to shut up and not say anything? What would be appropriate to convey to Police about evidence, witnesses who the players are, and that you acted in self defense.
    To the officer at initial contact:

    "Oh my God, he was coming towards me, I thought I was going to die" "I had no choice" sit down...."can you please call my wife/father/mother etc...." (and have them call your attorney)
    Live Free or Die!

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    gogodawgs wrote:
    To the officer at initial contact:

    "Oh my God, he was coming towards me, I thought I was going to die" "I had no choice" sit down...."can you please call my wife/father/mother etc...." (and have them call your attorney)
    From this statement one can derive, he was walking toward you with no present threat nor action's that one would conclude you were in immediate threat of life or limb.


    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    BigDave wrote:
    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Let's not forget everyday innocent people are also arrested and locked up for simply talking to LEO.
    Do you have a cite for that? (that is your favorite reply correct?)

    Hard to cite something that is institutionally swept under the rug.

    There is this http://www.innocenceproject.org/but afaik they really only focus on cases where DNA is in the evidence box, and DNA testing was not available at the time of the trial.

    252 convicts exonerated, by a very small organization with minimal resources. That's the tip of the iceberg imho, the very smalltip of a ginormous iceberg.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

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    BigDave wrote:
    swatspyder wrote:
    Here are the details... Everyone needs to watch this!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
    I have viewed this a couple of times to include the 2nd half with an ex law enforcement officer.
    This attorney represents CRIMINALS not those who have acted in self defense and are innocent.
    ********. He represents people who we are to presume are innocent until proven otherwise. Your statement of bias shows just how little you actually know or care for the law, despite your claims to have taken "professional education". Guilty or innocent, one should not talk to the cops without their attorney present. As olypendrew pointed out: there is no upside, and a potentially huge downside.

    When calling 911, you say "we need an ambulance at <location>, a person needs medical assistance for a gunshot wound." Contrary to your claims, you don't have to claim self-defense or anything from the get-go, and the less of that you do, the less your attorney has to explain even the slightest discrepancy. If you say anything, there *will* be some discrepancy that could be used to incriminate you. Period. You cannot say *anything* that will help your case, legally. That is why the advice is "don't talk to the cops." If they ask to talk to you, very politely say "not without my attorney." You could add that you're sure they understand the stress of the situation you're in, but, again, that could be used against you. Best to say nothing, and wait for your attorney to come.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    This attorney represents CRIMINALS not those who have acted in self defense and are innocent.
    What's the difference between a criminal and an innocentperson who acted in self defense?





    A conviction. You should know that.
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    This attorney represents CRIMINALS not those who have acted in self defense and are innocent.
    What's the difference between a criminal and an innocentperson who acted in self defense?

    A conviction. You should know that.
    My statement could have been better for the greater part he represents the criminal element there will be a few that come in are innocent.

    His view point (as I see it) is from a position in making the State to prove every step along the way, this is not a self defense claim.
    One would be charged with a homicide and then evidence and testimony would be allowed or denied on the aspects of the charges, self defense is not one.

    When claiming self defense you have to be willing to admit you shot this person or killed them in self defense and thus in Washington State now it is up to the prosecution to prove you did not act in self defense. This will now open up what you knew before and up to the incident, thus allowing your past knowledge and background if you can prove you knew this ahead of time as to your professional training, videos, books and professional witnesses to support your actions where if you did not claim self defense you would not have.

    Any person acting lawfully and defending themselves there is no difference be it a criminal or law abiding, you should know that right?

    What makes a criminal a criminal are illegal acts, pretty simple.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    The 5th Amendment was put in place to protect the innocent, not the guilty.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    Hard to cite something that is institutionally swept under the rug.

    There is this http://www.innocenceproject.org/but afaik they really only focus on cases where DNA is in the evidence box, and DNA testing was not available at the time of the trial.

    252 convicts exonerated, by a very small organization with minimal resources. That's the tip of the iceberg imho, the very smalltip of a ginormous iceberg.
    There is no doubt there are some that are convicted and put in jail or prison that should have never spent a day in jail.
    On the other hand not all that are being released do to DNA are not innocent and would be a misconception to think so.

    Our system is not perfect but as time goes along (slowly) it seems it does get better but not for some.
    It is better then no system at all or numerous other systems though out the world that are much worse and I know this does not provide comfort for the innocent but I as others do not have the answer.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  23. #23
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    44Brent wrote:
    The 5th Amendment was put in place to protect the innocent, not the guilty.
    Actually it was put there so you cannot be compelled to testify against yourself, regardless of guilt or not.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    On the other hand not all that are being released do to DNA are not innocent and would be a misconception to think so.
    So, would it also be a missconception to think that not everyone convicted because of DNA is guilty?

    If you think that not everyone who has a conviction over turned due to new DNA evidence is innocent, than the opposite ought to be true as well.

    In other words, do you call DNA evidence into question universally, or just when it's used to prove innocence of a previously convicted citizen?
    "I'm just a no-account screed-peddler" Dave Workman http://goo.gl/CNf6pB

    "We ought to extend the [1994] assault weapons ban" George W Bush

    "The Bush Administration declared a permanent ban today on almost all foreign-made semiautomatic assault rifles." George Bush Sr, New York Times on July 8, 1989

    "I support the Brady bill and I urge the Congress to enact it without delay." Ronald Regan.

    "Guns are an abomination." Richard Nixon

  25. #25
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Dave_pro2a wrote:
    BigDave wrote:
    On the other hand not all that are being released do to DNA are not innocent and would be a misconception to think so.
    So, would it also be a missconception to think that not everyone convicted because of DNA is guilty?

    If you think that not everyone who has a conviction over turned due to new DNA evidence is innocent, than the opposite ought to be true as well.

    In other words, do you call DNA evidence into question universally, or just when it's used to prove innocence of a previously convicted citizen?
    I feel that DNA is one part of the equation but not an all in one basket, what occurs if DNA is mishandled, contaminated or even planted.
    With DNA as a part of the equation is good for either side but not a sole determining factor.
    As with anything there will be error on both sides of being convicted or exonerated of a crime.

    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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