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Thread: Gun Purchase

  1. #1
    Regular Member cowboyridn's Avatar
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    In about two weeks I will have about $1000.00 to spend on a handgun and I was wondering what caliber most of the members here use for defence.

    Today I looked at a S&W 9m with laser sights, built in, which I really liked, it was sweet, so was the price, almost $900.00 but it beats having the laser mounted on top and in the way

    I used a 9m auto while working as a Correctional officer at the Federal Prison in Oxford Wisconsin and trained with a 9m on the armed escort team there. When we trained I really liked the easy recoil of the 9m as compared tothe recoil of a45. However, if I have to defend myself or someone else, I would like some impact power that the 45 delivers.

    In addition, sometime down the road, (as soon as the Wisconsin Legislators get the CCW bill passed which will allow local law enforcement to trainus without being liable), be able to getcirtified and get a CCW being a federal retired law enforcement officer, and with that possibility, I would have toqualify with the same handgun that I will be using for CCW.

    I'm concerned that qualifying with a 45 would be more difficult then a 9m, I guess I would have to target practice with both to see which of the two felt more comfortable, or find a smoth 45 that compairs to a 9m. Then there is the fact that I have to conceal the gun so it can't be too bulky.

    So that’s my dilemma, can anyone provide any advice as to what gun would be appropriate and fit in these situations.

    Thanks in advance

    Don



  2. #2
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    9mm has all of the "impact power" that you need. The fact that you train with it and are confident in yourself and the handgun itself trumps a larger caliber every time. Shot placement is the single most critical aspect of stopping a threat.

    If you are talking nice CCW it is hard to beat a 1911. Both Springfield Armory and Kimber make quality compact 1911s in 9mm. I have owned both the Ultra Carry II Kimbers and the Ultra Compact Lightweight. CurrentlySpringfield is only making a 9mm in the EMP line which is nearly teh same as the Ultra Compact Lightweight but a little bit smaller.


    If you want double action, I would look at the CZ or Taurus offerings. They both make compact reliabledouble actions.



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    MY CCW for about ten years, from 1996 when the law was passed until I moved to Wisconsin, is a .40 for the compromise between momentum and mass.

    KE=(m v^2)1/2 Energy goes with the square of velocity and only the first power of mass.

    My CCW is an H&K USPc .40. My OC is an SA1911A1. I will carry my black satin Interarms Luger when I can wear a dress gun.

    I speak against the privilege of permitted CCW and for the uninfringed right to carry.

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    Wow, part of me can't wait to see the variety of responses to this question. I bet it'll almost be as good as the Ford vs. Chevy debate.

    I personally use a 4" compact XD .45. With a double stack magazine and a 4" barrel, I do imagine it would be more of a challenge to conceal over some of the subcompact 9's that I have held. I'm honestly not worried about that until CCW passes.

    Within that $1000 budget, you have a huge range to select from. I would recommend visiting as many different shops as you can and shoot as many different models as possible. Not sure what your options are in Baraboo, but most of the ranges here in the Milwaukee area offer reasonably priced rentals.

    Aside from the XD that I have, I also really like the S&W M&P .40 and the Kimber sub-compact .45's, though the latter is a bit outside the $1000 range.

    Good luck in your search, and I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever it is you end up with!

  5. #5
    Regular Member CUOfficer's Avatar
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    I carry a Springfield XD 9mm service model. It has the 16+1 capacity, is light weight, and very accurate. It is ultra-reliable and ammo is reasonable. You can also equip it with Crimson Trace for well under $800. They are in the Cabelas ad for $449 at the moment also.

    If I were buying a new carry gun today, I would probably buy the new XD(M) in .40 caliber. It is slimmer and fits better in the hand than the regular XD. Hope that helps your decision.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    When I first started carrying I started with a 9 shot H&R .22LR revolver. It was light, felt good and was 100% reliable. That was 30 years ago and many pistols and revolvers have been on my side since then. I tried a Sig P226 in 9mm and it was too big. Tried a .357 magnum revolver with 2.5 inch barrel and it was great for cold weather concealment in Washington state. Not good in Florida (prints) and got heavy on the side after a few hours of carry. Tried a Springfield XD compact in 9mm (double stack magazine) and considered it too thick (lived in Florida at the time and thick guns printed on my summer clothing. I finally decided that I needed a thin gun with plenty of firepower that wasn't heavy and that was as good as the person wielding it. I bought a Glock 36 in .45 ACP for concealed carry in Florida and to me this was the "perfect gun". It has a great trigger and 6 rounds of .45 ACP. Add an extension to the magazine and you can get 7 rounds of .45 ACP. Chamber a round and load another in the magazine and there is now 8 rounds of .45 ACP available. Since moving to Wisconsin and open carrying I decided to stick with this particular gun since it is lightweight and works well for me. If I was to get another gun for open carry here in Wisconsin I would have two other choices besides the G36: One would be the Springfield XD in .45 ACP, the other would be the Glock 30 in .45 ACP.

    The best thing about looking for what is right is you get to try a lot of guns!
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

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    There is no "perfect" gun or caliber. Some are better than others but any of the above (9,40 ,45) are quite adequate. We all have our preferences. Mine is a 1911 in 45 ACP. The gun and caliber must fit you. Personally, I don't think my gun/caliber is a problem. But, I practice and shoot quite a bit. And, that is the key. The more you shoot, practice, and train with real ammo, as well as dry firing, the more confident you'll get.

    Who was it that said "Carry enough gun!" and "Shoot the biggest gun you can shoot well" ? The "shoot well" is the main point.

    Try as many different combinations as you can and not just a few rounds.

    Good luck in you decision.

    I hope I didn't offend anybody. We all have our "pets".

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    try the 5.7mm

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    Take a look at the S&W 1911pd with the factory crimson trace lazer sights. That is my care gun and will be what I use in the future. Since you intend to practice any way the 45 should not be problem. After 1000 rounds through it, the only problem I had was caused by a cheap mag. All magazines are not created equal, don't waste money on cheap ones.

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    get a ruger sp 101 .357 with the 2 inch barrel. if you get the bobbed hammer model with the 2 inch barrel it would also make a great ccw. some people think the gun is heavy but its only 25 oz. plus that really helps when you shoot 180 grain bear loads(really really fun)
    I like GUNS

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    Like everyone else has said it's really up to you what you want to carry.

    My wife and I both carry a .40 S&W for the same reason that Duggy does but without the formulas. I'm not that smart.


    I both OC and CC a Taurus Millennium Pro PT140 and my wife carries, mostly CC because she doesn't like to OC and in Arkansas we can't OCso we both CC quite a bit, a Kahr CW40. She loves the gun. I will say Ican shoot a grouping of 5 shots at 10 yrds with her 40about the size of a half dollar. With my Taurus I can't. So I let her have the better gun. Her recoil on her gun isn't near what mine is and her gun is slimmer and lighter.


    Now, I'm no expert but it is really what you are comfortable with.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    9mm with good hot +P hollow point loads.....all you need. I will use my 34 for CCW when we get it. vertical draw Shoulder rig or small of back Holster....
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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  13. #13
    McX
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    a grand to spend? gee, you could get like 3 or 4 hi points .40's. then you'd have a home gun, work gun, car gun, one at each location, and still have some change for gas.

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    Weight and size of the grip have a lot to do with recoil. There are lots of good guns available. Do you want light and thin or big and bulky? Revolver with moon clips or semi-auto? My wife was a much better shot with my fullsize 1911 .45 than my kahr p9. 9mm will be cheaper and you should take that into account.

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    Your question is hard to answer. Kinda like asking people what is the best car to buy. A compact "wheel gun" in 38 special caliber with Crimson Trace laser grips is my idea of the ideal carry gun. i.e. Ruger LCR. That whole setup costs around $550.

    As I_Kimplies it ain't so much what you hit them with. It's where you hit them. The key is practise, practise, practise until you can hit "center of mass" every time from at least 7 yards. Any caliber, including 22, hitting "center of mass" is apt to make the bad guy feel very uncomfortable.

    The F.B.I standards are that it wants a caliber that has the energy to penetrate the body cavity and have enough energy left to sever the spinal column. The F.B.I chooses to use .40 or .45 caliber. The down side is pass through and risk to innocent bystanders. Something to consider as we open carry. Accidental injury to a bystander during a confrontation could lead to serious legal consequences.



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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Personally, I think that 9mm's and .40's are great for throwing at the BGs when you've emptied your mag. I like the .45. Famous the world over for one shot stops. The 1911 is golden. The brainchild of John Moses Browning. Imagined in the late 1800s and brought to fruition just prior to WWI Used extensively in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, South America Iraq and Afghanistan. The weapon of choice for special forces the world over.

    Yeah, I like the 1911.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Any of those three calibers will do the job, if you can do the job. If you can't, a 30.06 won't be much better. My money is on a proficient shooter with a .380 over a mediocre shooter with a .45. I've shot with and observed a lot of people shooting, some were bad, most were average, and a few are damn good. The difference in calibers is minuscule-- the differences in shooting proficiency are considerable.


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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    My next carry gun will be a 10mm. Probably a Glock 20, since I like Glocks, but who knows.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member hardballer's Avatar
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    Shotgun wrote:
    Any of those three calibers will do the job, if you can do the job.Â* If you can't, a 30.06 won't be much better.Â* My money is on a proficient shooter with a .380 over a mediocre shooter with a .45.Â* I've shot with and observed a lot of people shooting, some were bad, most were average, and a few are damn good.Â* The difference in calibers is minuscule-- the differences in shooting proficiency are considerable.
    No argument here. A miss is a miss in any caliber. Practice, practice, practice.
    Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid. Han Solo

    http://buffaloholstercompany.blogspot.com/ Concealment holsters IWB, SOB, and belt slide. Open Carry too. New from Buffalo Holster, Women's holsters for concealment and or belt carry.

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    I'm a believer in the shot placement theory,being shot placement is most important,more so than what caliber bullet it is.I have a S&W 38 special revolver,a .22 semi auto Ruger,and 9mm Hi power.I recently just purchased the 9mm and reason I did is because the cost of the ammo is considerably less than a .45 caliber.Figuring shot placement being the key and to be able to get accurae shot placement,alot of range and practice is needed,I will be able to afford much more 9mm ammo than 45.So I can practice more and be confident I can hit the target in the area I aim for.

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    Since eachof thecalibers you mentionedhas both it's own strong and weak points, and they are actually quite similar in terminal ballistics with each other, especiallywith today's quality ammo choices, I feel capacity is more important than caliber right now.

    I started with a 38/357 6-shot revolver,and a .25 Auto BUG andcarriedthem bothconcealed when I lived in FL, I added a .41 Mag. to the mix, andthat was uncarryable IMO, and my most recent is a .40 XDm that I absolutely love.
    I just need some more range time with it to get used to the snappiness of the muzzle. When I go out and about, I think "I sure am good with this revolver, but will 6 shots be enough for any situation that I may find myself in?" then I remember that I am able to put all 17 rounds into center of mass with my .40, and I end up carrying that because I have almost triple the capacity of my revolver.

    Find what fits your hand best, see what works best for you for Open-Carry and concealed, and see which you are the most accurate with, then determine what kind of safety you want, and how many rounds you feel is best for any defensive situation that you mayfind yourself inwithout needing to do a reload in a high-stress situation.

    I looked at many glocks, I really like glocks.. I always wanted a Glock for some reason, But they did not feel right in my hands, then I picked up an XDm, and it feels more natural to me, I didnot like any1911's that I tried because the beavertail safety takes a conscience effort for me to depress it fully, That bothered me. The beavertail safety on the XDm felt like it was not even there, and it fit me best.
    You may be totally opposite and find a Glock a better fit, go out and shoot at a range that rents, or shoot with people that have the pistols you are interested in to see which works best for you.

    Just do not like make, model, or caliber decide for you, find what feels best and has the features that you feel are most important.

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    Nutczak wrote:
    Find what fits your hand best, see what works best for you for Open-Carry and concealed, and see which you are the most accurate with, then determine what kind of safety you want, and how many rounds you feel is best for any defensive situation that you mayfind yourself inwithout needing to do a reload in a high-stress situation.

    ...

    Just do not like make, model, or caliber decide for you, find what feels best and has the features that you feel are most important.
    Also, don't let perception influence your decision. Example: my first exposure to handgun shooting was around 10 with my dad and his .357 Ruger Security 6 with wooden grips. I had no problem shooting .38 spcl out of it, but when it was loaded with the hotter .357 rounds, my hands would hurt after only a dozen or so shots. A few years later my brother purchased a .44 magnum and I was hesitant to shoot it, remembering how bad the .357 hurt my hand. He finally talked me into it and I found that even with the hot loads I could shoot for hours. Recoil absorbing grips and a full underlug (weight) made it a completely different shooting experience.

    I also have had issues with the way Glocks fit my hand. Specifically the alignment of the slide to the skin between my thumb and forefinger. Anyone else with this issue can attest to how bad that hurts!



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    OCmyXD wrote:
    I also have had issues with the way Glocks fit my hand. Specifically the alignment of the slide to the skin between my thumb and forefinger. Anyone else with this issue can attest to how bad that hurts!
    With a semi-auto you shouldn't have your weak hand thumb overlapping your stong-hand thumb. Your weak hand thumb should be facing forward just like your stong-hand thumb... I could take a picture if you aren't getting it...

    BTW - asking this question is going to get LOTS of answers... carry what you can shoot the best... for me it's a G19/G23 Glock for OC and CCW (out of state).

  24. #24
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Mugenlude wrote:
    OCmyXD wrote:
    I also have had issues with the way Glocks fit my hand. Specifically the alignment of the slide to the skin between my thumb and forefinger. Anyone else with this issue can attest to how bad that hurts!
    With a semi-auto you shouldn't have your weak hand thumb overlapping your stong-hand thumb. Your weak hand thumb should be facing forward just like your stong-hand thumb... I could take a picture if you aren't getting it...

    BTW - asking this question is going to get LOTS of answers... carry what you can shoot the best... for me it's a G19/G23 Glock for OC and CCW (out of state).
    I agree 100% with the "Carry what you can shoot the best". Even if the gun is big, I would carry what I shoot the best 99% of the time (I try to carry my full size .45 auto now days). That one bad shoot when you needed it the most, could become a real problem for you. And what might you hit if you do miss your shot? I don't know if Wisconsin Carry, or even God for that matter, will be of any help to you if you were to hit the wrong person...



  25. #25
    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    Mugenlude wrote:
    OCmyXD wrote:
    I also have had issues with the way Glocks fit my hand. Specifically the alignment of the slide to the skin between my thumb and forefinger. Anyone else with this issue can attest to how bad that hurts!
    With a semi-auto you shouldn't have your weak hand thumb overlapping your stong-hand thumb. Your weak hand thumb should be facing forward just like your stong-hand thumb... I could take a picture if you aren't getting it...

    BTW - asking this question is going to get LOTS of answers... carry what you can shoot the best... for me it's a G19/G23 Glock for OC and CCW (out of state).
    http://www.krtraining.com/IPSC/Information/grip.jpg

    Is this what you're trying to describe? This is the way I was taught to grip a handgun.
    Rand Paul 2016

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