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Thread: Open Carry Brimfield Walmart Police Harassment

  1. #1
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    We shop at Wal-Mart about once every 3-4 weeks. About 90 % of the time we go to the Wal-Mart in Brimfield, OH, the Super Wal-Mart. Sometimes we go to Wadsworth. Today was no different until the check out line. I have always open carried when I go there with my entire family (6 children now).

    I saw an associate tell the female manager something and point at me from a distance as I was packing groceries into the cart. I was then approach by a punk young guy in street clothes, who later identified himself as part of Wal-Mart security.

    He lied to me (just like they lied to me at a different Wal-Mart) and said there was a "no firearms policy". He also said there was a sign on the door (he lied). I told him there is no sign. I asked him to show me the sign; he then took me into a room to have Brimfield Police interrogate me.

    The one police officer tried to lie and say I did not inform of carrying a concealed weapon on time (in Ohio you have to inform-- I was carrying one gun open, one concealed). But I did inform him as soon as I was reasonably able to. So he dropped that subject of saying I broke the law.

    They tried to say:

    1) I was inducing panic.

    2) One officer tried to tell me I could only conceal carry. Then in the end, the main officer admitted what I was doing was legal.

    I think I handled the encounter well. I answered basic questions (trying to cooperate) but when they started trying to ask more questions beyond the basics "where do you live", etc. I told them I would not answer any questions without a lawyer.

    The only negative that can come out of this is

    1) The officer said that he was going to notify the Sheriff of "what I've been up to (meaning, open carrying) and that the Duputy could revoke my CCW if she wants to (even though I didn't break any law).

    2) We won't be shopping at Wal-Mart again, at least not the one in Brimfield. I am going to contact the manager in Wadsworth and reassure their policy, because I open carried there before, and when the manager approached me and discovered I was okay, he said he didn't have a problem with my open carry in his store.

    I have the entire encounter recorded on my digital voice recorder. I got the usual "you could be charged for inducing panic" and "someone can take your gun from your holster".

    The first officer I spoke with was semi-professional, semi-kind to me. He admitted I did not break the law, and even complimented me for knowing and studying the laws, saying he wishes others would do the same. The second officer was a complete jerk and swore at me and belittle me. He took me through the usual:

    "Do you have a CCW"?

    "Yes"

    "What does that mean?"

    "It means I can carrying a concealed weapon"

    "What does concealed mean?"

    "It means to hide or cover, etc."

    "....blah, blah, (cursing and swearing) you can't carry it open, etc. It has to be concealed" (so he must not have known the law at all, but his partner officer knew it was legal; he admitted it. He said that I need to "study inducing panic" because someone could trying to run away from me because of my gun, and then if they "slip and fall and get hurt" I would be charged.

    The Wal-Mart security was the most hostile of all. I told them I now know that I am not welcome in their store with open carry (which is fine with me if they say so... I don't mind shopping elsewhere).

    Otherwise, earlier today I visited several stores including Aldi and Duma's Meats. The only negative reaction I received was at Duma's, when one of the associate's asked me if I were a police officer; I educated her on the 2nd amendment and that was that.

    The adventures continue... thankful to God that things did not go worse. But I am not regretful for choosing to open carry.

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    matthollycart wrote:
    He lied to me and said there was a "no firearms policy". He also said there was a sign on the door (he lied). I told him there is no sign. I asked him to show me the sign; he then took me into a room to have Brimfield Police interrogate me.

    The one police officer tried to lie and say I did not inform of carrying a concealed weapon on time (in Ohio you have to inform-- I was carrying one gun open, one concealed). But I did inform him as soon as I was reasonably able to. So he dropped that subject of saying I broke the law.

    They tried to say:

    1) I was inducing panic.

    2) One officer tried to tell me I could only conceal carry. Then in the end, the main officer admitted what I was doing was legal.

    I think I handled the encounter well. I answered basic questions (trying to cooperate) but when they started trying to ask more questions beyond the basics "where do you live", etc. I told them I would not answer any questions without a lawyer.

    The only negative that can come out of this is

    1) The officer said that he was going to notify the Sheriff of "what I've been up to (meaning, open carrying) and that the Duputy could revoke my CCW if she wants to (even though I didn't break any law).
    I'd say more than one negative came from this. First you were held. The cops and store employee lied to you. Then they try to stiffle your right to carry by telling the sheriff on you. It is no surprise, this is how the police operate.

  3. #3
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    And police officers can't understand why people don't like them.

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    I can't say i've ever been that hassled by an employee.. most are just like "You can't have that in here" and i respond with "Yes, I can, call home office." And they always say something like oh.. ok. and walk away.. lol..

    The LP guy and I in sidney have had such long conversations about guns that his managers get pissed at him.. lol

    Most of the time its the other customers that give me a hard time.



  5. #5
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    you definitely induced panic in me! panic that a nobody store grunt can detain me, and take me to a holding area, without any police authority, for doing something legal, yep, that causes panic!

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    File an official complaint. Make certain that you get on the record what you've said elsewhere that the one cop said.

    If he's EVER involved in a shooting, plaintiff's attorney will say the following:

    "Officer Shortbus, did you say the following to a citizen who was lawfully open carrying...?"

    If somebody ever pulls a gun on that cop, he might as well just take the bullet. It'll hurt less than the lawsuit if he shoots back and hits ANYBODY.

    His thug act is going to follow him for the rest of his police career and maybe beyond.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    There are numerous reasons to avoid Walmart -- this is one of them.

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    That "Inducing Panic" thing is a common threat from clueless LEO's.

    Read the section in the Ohio Revised Code. If every single person in the store runs screaming from Wal-Mart and ends up in a pile in the parking lot, the gun carrier is not guilty of "Inducing Panic."



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    Get a message to the Walmart Head of Corporate Security. There was an issue with the Walmart in Ravenna that ended up with the Head of Corporate Security stating that to carry a weapon is a 2nd Amendment Right and the Walmart has no intention of infringing on that Right. This was also done at the Headquarters of Giant Eagle as well. There was also an incident in the Ravenna store. If you want to go to a Walmart, come to the one in Ravenna, they get it! As for the Brimfield Police, I have lived in Portage County (Suffield to be exact) for over 30 years. The Brimfield Police weren't even thought of then. To this day, they always have, and always will be a big joke! They all got the Buford Pusser attitude in a Mayberry enviornment. Not to mention, they got Barney Fife mentality. If the people of Brimfield knew the officers they hired, that would truly incite a panic.

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    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.p...53&start=0

    The thread is locked on ohioccwforums.org so I am posting this here. And I am sorry I haven't been on this site much. This week has been very burdensome to me and my family.

    For those of you who were following the thread on ohioccwforums.org, I apologize because some of you thought that Ishould have been giving you instant updates of my intentions. It was my desire to take a mental break from this all for a while. I need to decide what I want to do. I am mentally exhausted right now. This is partly due to some of the people on the forum who thought they should try to judge my motives as to why I haven't updated them frequently or "met with the Chief". I haven't decided anything yet, but I will soon.



  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    matthollycart, this blog and the Buckeye site is more friendly than OFCC. I'm just sayin.

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    matthollycart wrote:
    I saw an associate tell the female manager something and point at me from a distance as I was packing groceries into the cart. I was then approach by a punk young guy in street clothes, who later identified himself as part of Wal-Mart security.

    He lied to me (just like they lied to me at a different Wal-Mart) and said there was a "no firearms policy". He also said there was a sign on the door (he lied). I told him there is no sign. I asked him to show me the sign; he then took me into a room to have Brimfield Police interrogate me.
    Always bad idea to bring up signs - invites them to come - why did you just not ignore the guy and leave the premises with your groceries?

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    Mike wrote:
    matthollycart wrote:
    I saw an associate tell the female manager something and point at me from a distance as I was packing groceries into the cart. I was then approach by a punk young guy in street clothes, who later identified himself as part of Wal-Mart security.

    He lied to me (just like they lied to me at a different Wal-Mart) and said there was a "no firearms policy". He also said there was a sign on the door (he lied). I told him there is no sign. I asked him to show me the sign; he then took me into a room to have Brimfield Police interrogate me.
    Always bad idea to bring up signs - invites them to come - why did you just not ignore the guy and leave the premises with your groceries?
    I should have. The situation took me be surprise though because of the deceptive "security guard". I thought I was going to see the supposed sign on the door, and the man in uniform was standing before we got to the door and immediately started questioning me. I should have not spoken and just left. And I knew this in my mind, but didn't do it when it happened.

    And yes, this site is much more friendly than OFCC. I guess maybe because the vast majority of them are not in favor of open carry. Some of the members who don't go there anymore, and other members there have told me they are too "political" anymore, and less activist.

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    "What does that mean?"

    "It means I can carrying a concealed weapon"

    I suggest you add "if I choose to do so" to this statement to more accurately reflect the truth.

    Officer: "What does that mean?"

    OC'er: "It means I can conceal my lawfully carried weapon if I choose to do so."

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    Or "It means I don't have to unload everytime I get in my car"

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    Mattholleycart,
    I was following the thread on OFCC, but didnt post there, as they dont like me very much because I wouldnt stop showing them how hypocritical they are........ (they love to support people who do things the way they would, but vilify and attack others who are still within their legal rights, but dont do things the way they would)

    I think you did very well for yourself in the encounter. I too, have had a couple of encounters when open-carrying. I have kicked myself for not saying what I should have, not having my recorder on, etc.....(that is what I was kicking myself for, I know you had yours on) It is very easy to beat yourself up over shoulda/woulda/coulda........... It isnt worth the stress of it all, learn from this and press on.

    Although I would press this further with the chief if it were me, a death threat for obeying the law is not something to be left without a response.....

    But YOU are the one this happened to, not me, and whatever you decide to do, you have my support.



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    I like this forum also, but topics here in the ohio section do not seem to get as many replies as other forums.

    That stinks. I tell everyone about thismforum though.

    I may get a vinyl bumper sticker cut that says opencarry.org


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    Matt,

    I saw the post on OFCC too late to post there, but I would encourage you to arrange with Jeff or Charben (Chris) to go with you to meet the police Chief. It was clear to me from his responses that he regrets what happened and wants to make things right. This could be a big win for the cause if you take advantage of the opportunity.

    Also, (in response to axeanda45), I would like to point out that while the officer was clearly wrong in his interaction with Matt, he did not issue a "death threat". It is clear that he was saying that a misunderstanding could have resulted in either he or another CCW licensee shootingMatt (by mistake). Of course, that isridiculous, but it certainly didn't sound like he was issuing a death threat.

    Please go talk to the Chief with an OFCC officer. I'm sure that the meeting would be very productive and give you a good result! Otherwise, this entire encounter will be for nothing.



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    I wrote to the Chief tonight to ask him if he is still interested in meeting. I don't know when I will do this though. I still have to talk to some people this weekend. I have been in touch with the people at OFCC regarding a meeting with the Chief. They have been very generous to me (the actual organization and leadership of OFCC).

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    GREAT! I'm glad that you want to meet with the Chief, andarranging the meeting in conjunction with OFCC is definitely the way to go. The leadership of OFCC is very professional and competent and know how to get positive things done!

    While this was certainly a negative incident for you, it could turn into a big positive for you; the open carry community; OFCC; and the Brimfield Police if you are willing to take the next step.

    To be quite honest, I was somewhat disappointed in a couple of the OFCC Members who were calling the Brimfield Police "jack-booted thugs" and the like, ESPECIALLY when the police chief went the extra mile. Having been in business for a long time, I can tell you that the boss can't always control what every employee does. The Chief had an employee that screwed up. He was not only willing to talk about it, but to alsotake positive action to correct the situation and even to work to inform other departments in Ohio about open carry. That has HUGE potential to be a big win for the gun community!

    I would also encourage you to think about your holster. I think the police might have had a good suggestion there. If you're going to open carry (or concealed carry for that matter), some sort of a retention holster is a good idea.





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    propertymanager wrote:
    GREAT! I'm glad that you want to meet with the Chief, andarranging the meeting in conjunction with OFCC is definitely the way to go. The leadership of OFCC is very professional and competent and know how to get positive things done!

    While this was certainly a negative incident for you, it could turn into a big positive for you; the open carry community; OFCC; and the Brimfield Police if you are willing to take the next step.

    To be quite honest, I was somewhat disappointed in a couple of the OFCC Members who were calling the Brimfield Police "jack-booted thugs" and the like, ESPECIALLY when the police chief went the extra mile. Having been in business for a long time, I can tell you that the boss can't always control what every employee does. The Chief had an employee that screwed up. He was not only willing to talk about it, but to alsotake positive action to correct the situation and even to work to inform other departments in Ohio about open carry. That has HUGE potential to be a big win for the gun community!

    I would also encourage you to think about your holster. I think the police might have had a good suggestion there. If you're going to open carry (or concealed carry for that matter), some sort of a retention holster is a good idea.
    good work - engagement is the key - we need to be seen as normal people who just happen to be open carrying - anything else sets as back.

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    Every week someone has a encounter with LEO that really stinks. Matt's wasn't as bad as others. Matt's wife Holly, got stuck with 2 grocery carts and all the kids. She got the worst end of the ordeal.

    I wonder if OC.org would care to join in talks with the Chief, he could be a powerful allie.

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    Looks like there's gonna be an OFCC sponsored open carry event.:celebrate

    http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=41589

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    Sounds like a good plan. Although, we did Cleveland last time. What about the place where rottman was cuffed and harassed? Or did he say something about it being a ghost town there on Saturdays?

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