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Thread: What Happened to America?

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    Please forgive me if this is the wrong place to do this, but since it is gun related, I figured it applied...


    Today I was in the car with my wife. I told her I was thinking about starting a petition to remove the 'public demonstration' law which violates the 2ND Amendment by removing guns from the people during demonstrations. She said, "OK. What's your point?"

    I was in shock. I tried to explain to her that the government has no right to do this and we needed to at least try to do something. She explained to me that she was not "interested" in these types of things and she didn't have an "interest" in hearing about any of it. I told her that countless men and women have died for us. They are dying right now to protect these rights that the government thinks they can just take away. She said, "I just don't have the same interests and hobbies you do."

    I'm not sure which emotion is taking over right now. I'm disappointed, upset, hurt, angry....

    This is why the government does what it wants. We have Americans who flat out don't care! Why? Do you really want to live in a country where guns are banned and only the bad guys and police have them? You can't count on the police to follow you around and make sure you are safe all day. Do you want to live in a country where the government tells you what clothes you can wear, where you can live, tells you where you can't go, how much money you can make, etc.?

    I've almost lost faith in people. This is why people like me must fight for freedom... because people are just so comfortable right now, they don't care. They won't care! The government takes away little tiny rights away, a little bit at a time and eventually they are all gone! Am I overreacting or what? Can anyone shed some light on this?

    I'll finish my rant: This is not just a "hobby". Maybe for some people it is and it's a way to pass time or they just like to complain about things. But for most people, it isn't! They are not just constitutional rights. They are human rights that our forefathers put down on paper so that the government didn't find a way to take them.

    It is not the federal governments job to decide which rights we need and take the others away. It should be every Americans job to help uphold these rights and it just sickens me to know that some people don't care. They flat out don't care. Why? I like being a free human being! I like being a free American! When will the rest of us wake up and care?

    I understand that some people were meant to lead and make a difference.Not everyone has the strength to stand up and fight. Some people just don't have the will power to do whatever it takes... but at the same time... shouldn't they at least care?




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    The memory of harsh oppression is too culturally distant, and history classes don't emphasize how this nation established the first really free republic and fought for freedom elsewhere.

    I fear that Americans won't worry about the loss of their freedom until they are completely gone. And, that may be closer to happening than most think.

    On the plus side, we are making progress in restoring the most important freedom, the RKBA. Only through that right can the rest be regained if and when The Republic is gone.

    If someone tries to King George us, the American people have the tools necessary to 1776 his butt. We must hope that doesn't have to happen. If it does, though, it will be because the cultural memory of oppression is gone.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    I fear that day is much closer than we think.:what:

    I have a question for you. WHO is the federal government? Everyone in office is an American just like us. Why would other Americans try and take what is ours? Another question is... how can you stop a government from taking rights, when the government is comprised of people like you and me? There isn't a king somewhere making all these laws and we just need to kick him out of the castle... It's people. Everyday American citizens.... how do you stop such a thing when it is basically the people making these laws? I am SO confused...

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    We are slowly vesting more and more power with fewer and fewer people. That is how we eventually arrive at too few people having too much power. That's when the Republic unravels--unless we can use republican means to stop it in November.

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    I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and share your pain. All except for the "they are dying to protect our right right now" bit. That's a bunch of bs. Who exactly is dying to protect our rights? In Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL. Seriously? You lost me on that one buddy.

    At any rate, I agree with your statements that no human being, or group of human beings (government) issues us rights at birth and can deem what we can and cannot do. However, you also made a statement that you enjoy being free. You are NOT free. I will say I think we are the freest nation on earth, but still not free. You cannot own land. You can't even work on your "own" house without permission from the presumed "authority". You cannot travel freely through the land. You cannot work freely. You cannot carry a firearm without permission. You cannot speak freely. You cannot demonstrate freely (redress of grievances). This list could go on and on and on containing restrictions imposed upon the people, and apparently the list is increasing at a speedy rate.

    I'll be honest with you. I have lost all faith in the current system. We're done. I think that it's only a matter of time before it all comes crumbling down into chaos. There is no sense of integrity, honesty, or morality within the government. A central PRIVATE (SECRET) bank controls our currency without any oversight by congress...much less the people. Our military personnel are spread about the globe for no reason whatsoever. Wars (invasions into countries that have never attacked us) continue with no end in sight and with no objective other than dominance and conquest. Domestic law is ever increasing oppressing the people. The oath of office means absolutely NOTHING to the government, local, state, and federal. Nobody cares to actually keep their word anymore.

    I too, share your pain of the differences with your spouse. Let me give you a little advice. Do not force your opinions, or even facts on her. Slowly show her what is happening and hopefully she will develop the sentiment of what human rights actually are and begin to question what right one has to claim that "ordinary" people are "sub humans" and should not be allowed or at the least be unregulated from said rights. My wife still thinks I go a bit overboard, but she has finally gotten around to understanding that being an objective human being, capable of questioning anything, is important to being an intelligent critical thinker.

    Just remember to be logical and realistic when talking about this stuff. You cannot blame people for being ignorant about this stuff. We were all raised by parents, churches, family, schools, etc. to believe things that simply are fabrications or not fully truths, were reality. It is very hard to grasp certain things when you "knew" your entire life that it was something different.

    Now that my rant is fully off topic I'll shut up now. Just thought I'd post my $.02 on the topic (and then some).

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    I was born in 87... Never even had a chance. What's freedom?

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    cscitney87 wrote:
    I was born in 87... Never even had a chance. What's freedom?
    Born in 82 myself...no idea.

    We can only know by reading excerpts from the founders.

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    You an only have a land of the free, when the strong are willing to fight and die for it.

    we started to see it slip away when the great american chicken was born

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    2) This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life - all posts should relate substantially tothis agenda, even if your comments pertain mainly to freedom andliberty. OCDO is not a general discussion forum on polticis, religion, the current President, etc. Take that somewhere else!

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum1/1.html

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    Eh, your wife is typical of americans today. People are too focused on Tiger woods and kate gosslin to look at the real things going on that affect their lives. The vast majority of people simply don't care about things until it happens to them. Then they are shocked and amazed that their rights are being take from them. Of course their neighbor down the road doesn't care because it hasn't happened to him...yet.

    She doesn't have an interest in hearing about how her rights are being infringed? Well she shouldn't complain when they are.

    I lost faith in people a long, long time ago. Nobody cares, cest la vie. People are asleep dreaming the american dream and won't wake up until it is too late...if at all.



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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    I was reading a post in another state when I found a great idea. It was a no Open Carry state and they jokingly said to wear a holster with a water bottle.

    It got me to thinking... The public demonstration laws at stupid and wrong. What if we have a public demonstration and instead on guns, we had our holsters out and a drawing on a pistol in it?

    What do you think? A way to protest.... Holster in the open but a water bottle, paper gun, etc in the holster. What a statement!

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    A public demonstration against the public demonstration law? I like it. :celebrate

    But how many of us are comfortable with having to leave our guns at home to protest having to leave our guns at home?
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I was reading a post in another state when I found a great idea. It was a no Open Carry state and they jokingly said to wear a holster with a water bottle.

    It got me to thinking... The public demonstration laws at stupid and wrong. What if we have a public demonstration and instead on guns, we had our holsters out and a drawing on a pistol in it?

    What do you think? A way to protest.... Holster in the open but a water bottle, paper gun, etc in the holster. What a statement!
    Sounds "wussified" to me. No offense, but the thought of cowering and not being armed at any event like that simply because "they say so" isn't very appealing to me. Hell, I don't even OC and that sounds so demeaning to have to wear an empty holster.

    *no offense intended*

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    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and share your pain. All except for the "they are dying to protect our right right now" bit. That's a bunch of bs. Who exactly is dying to protect our rights? In Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL. Seriously? You lost me on that one buddy.
    Whether you like it or not, the soldiers who are fighting and dying in Iraq do so for the cause of the American people. Whether or not you believe the cause to be just was never the question, and is something you would do full well to bring up with your legislature.

    A soldier is an instrument of war. They are the sharp edge of the long blade that is our military. Blaming soldiers for the war in Iraq, and summarily dismissing their losses because of that is truly disheartening.

    The cause of the fight is not on the infantryman to mull over. The President is ultimately accountable to the people, and therein is the problem. Do not confuse the two.


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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    I somewhat agree with your sentiment, and share your pain. All except for the "they are dying to protect our right right now" bit. That's a bunch of bs. Who exactly is dying to protect our rights? In Iraq and Afghanistan? LOL. Seriously? You lost me on that one buddy.
    Whether you like it or not, the soldiers who are fighting and dying in Iraq do so for the cause of the American people. Whether or not you believe the cause to be just was never the question, and is something you would do full well to bring up with your legislature.

    A soldier is an instrument of war. They are the sharp edge of the long blade that is our military. Blaming soldiers for the war in Iraq, and summarily dismissing their losses because of that is truly disheartening.

    The cause of the fight is not on the infantryman to mull over. The President is ultimately accountable to the people, and therein is the problem. Do not confuse the two.

    That is a load of crap...and NOT ONCE did I blame the soldiers for anything. I simply stated that their "war" has NOTHING to do with our freedom. Literally nothing.

    The president is accountable to the entity he is taking orders from (whomever that is at this point in time).

    Now, are you seriously going to attempt to tell anyone that soldiers going home to home disarming a people that have never harmed or threatened us, "for our freedom"? I don't call an offensive invasion "noble" by any means. I have much more respect for the objectors who have the balls to stand up and say NO to an offensive act of aggression rather than those who simply follow orders. How about those who are shooting people for NO F'ING REASON??? For that, yes, I can blame those soldiers doing that. OMG he has a gun! SHOOT HIM. OMG he is driving down the street SHOOT HIM. THAT is what is going on over there. Not anything having to do with our freedom. It's sick and disgusting to even fathom that these invasions have anything to do with our best interests at all.

    If you want to raise your war flag and spam your vehicle with yellow ribbons, go right ahead...but don't get all "high and mighty" with someone who recognizes, admits, and shamefully accepts that our actions are disgraceful and morally WRONG. I do understand the "fallen soldier" is mourned collectively, however, I feel that this is due to a false sense of patriotism more than anything. Do you mourn for the loss of an Iraqi or Afghan who has never done anything to even remotely CONSIDER being a "threat" to our nation, that just got bombed by our troops? Or how about someone who is OC'ing over there (whether rifle or pistol) and is immediately taken out by one of our sniper? Or how about the recently aired footage of the children, journalists, and innocent Iraqi civilians that we mowed down with a chopper? Do you mourn their deaths, or is that justified, or somehow they are "less human" than our soldiers?

    We should NOT be there. PERIOD. Sorry for ranting but this "immediate" collective respect for anyone who has or is currently serving makes no sense to me at this point. We are an aggressive nation at this point roaming the world for conquest apparently. It is saddening to see people like yourself attempt to justify these actions as "noble" or "for the people". I'd rather have the troops at home, out of harms way, and not killing innocent people, or chasing organizations that our CIA formed, trained, and funded many years ago.

    OH and your little bit about bringing it up to the legislature was hilarious. Like they give a damn about anything we "want", or about the constitution for that matter. HAHA. Good one.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    You can support the troops without supporting the war. That's all I'm going to say about it since this is obviously a sore (and off-topic) subject.

    I, for one, am glad that I was lucky enough to be born in America. I think that America is the best place to live in the entire world. If I ever change my mind, I am free to leave. That's part of why I like it.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I was reading a post in another state when I found a great idea. It was a no Open Carry state and they jokingly said to wear a holster with a water bottle.

    It got me to thinking... The public demonstration laws at stupid and wrong. What if we have a public demonstration and instead on guns, we had our holsters out and a drawing on a pistol in it?

    What do you think? A way to protest.... Holster in the open but a water bottle, paper gun, etc in the holster. What a statement!
    Sounds "wussified" to me. No offense, but the thought of cowering and not being armed at any event like that simply because "they say so" isn't very appealing to me. Hell, I don't even OC and that sounds so demeaning to have to wear an empty holster.

    *no offense intended*
    Ok then. Don't leave the weapon at home. Get 1,000 or so of us together and protest. What are they going to do... arrest us all? How does the oath go?....

    "if it is an illegal law/order under the U.S. constitution, we are not required to follow it..."

    The public demonstration "law" is a violation of our 2ND Amendment rights and by law, we are not obligated to follow it. If that's not a road you want to go down, someone else needs to come up with a better idea.

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    mcdonalk wrote:
    You can support the troops without supporting the war. That's all I'm going to say about it since this is obviously a sore (and off-topic) subject.

    I, for one, am glad that I was lucky enough to be born in America. I think that America is the best place to live in the entire world. If I ever change my mind, I am free to leave. That's part of why I like it.
    Why the hell would you want to support people who are killing innocent people? Not to keep the off topic rant going, but comments like this really bother me. This false sense of patriotism has been perverted from it's origins. Do you realize you're talking about supporting murderers? People who are slaughtering other people, for no reason. And you want to support them? Sorry I can't do that. Those people doing this are criminals. The only ones I will support are those with the balls enough to say NO to the machine and risk imprisonment, or worse.

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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I was reading a post in another state when I found a great idea. It was a no Open Carry state and they jokingly said to wear a holster with a water bottle.

    It got me to thinking... The public demonstration laws at stupid and wrong. What if we have a public demonstration and instead on guns, we had our holsters out and a drawing on a pistol in it?

    What do you think? A way to protest.... Holster in the open but a water bottle, paper gun, etc in the holster. What a statement!
    Sounds "wussified" to me. No offense, but the thought of cowering and not being armed at any event like that simply because "they say so" isn't very appealing to me. Hell, I don't even OC and that sounds so demeaning to have to wear an empty holster.

    *no offense intended*
    Ok then. Don't leave the weapon at home. Get 1,000 or so of us together and protest. What are they going to do... arrest us all? How does the oath go?....

    "if it is an illegal law/order under the U.S. constitution, we are not required to follow it..."

    The public demonstration "law" is a violation of our 2ND Amendment rights and by law, we are not obligated to follow it. If that's not a road you want to go down, someone else needs to come up with a better idea.
    Well I'm way down south anyway, and I don't even OC in public. I'd gladly call the state legislature and/or law enforcement on behalf of anyone who gets hassled from them though.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    mcdonalk wrote:
    You can support the troops without supporting the war. That's all I'm going to say about it since this is obviously a sore (and off-topic) subject.

    I, for one, am glad that I was lucky enough to be born in America. I think that America is the best place to live in the entire world. If I ever change my mind, I am free to leave. That's part of why I like it.
    Why the hell would you want to support people who are killing innocent people? Not to keep the off topic rant going, but comments like this really bother me. This false sense of patriotism has been perverted from it's origins. Do you realize you're talking about supporting murderers? People who are slaughtering other people, for no reason. And you want to support them? Sorry I can't do that. Those people doing this are criminals. The only ones I will support are those with the balls enough to say NO to the machine and risk imprisonment, or worse.
    You need to remember that we are not fighting another army. Have you ever seen a military uniform over there? I'll answer that for you. NO! You've seen police, but no military. "why not" you ask? because we invaded these people and are killed them. We are killing the people! If a country invaded the U.S. and was marching the streets taking control, don't you think every person in America would be outside shooting back? Yeswe would! That is what is going on over there! We need to pull out and leave them alone.

    I just thought I'd put my .2 cents in.

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    I think the whole point is.. we comply. No matter what we all comply.

    There are criminals, it's true; they aren't complying- they do nothing honorable.

    There's no "It's the right thing to do." anymore as far as the average citizen is concerned. Common sense examples are all around us.

    So the laws are bad; that's legislature. The law enforcement is bad; that's the executive. The judge isn't helping either; that's the judiciary. The 3 branches of American government... of which JUST IN CASE (something like this happens) there is a "checks and balances" system of which One (1) branch can stall the efforts of the other Two (2) in extreme cases.

    Simply; it's gone to Hell. The Legislative is barely hanging on. The Executive seems fit for a King. The Judiciary; well there are some shining examples- and there are some terrible failures.

    What happened is everybody started to believe "Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way..."

    By the time somebody realizes they are Not alone and organize.. Apathy has set in. The event has passed from the news. Nobody at the bank is chatting about it. The newspapers stop reporting on it.

    The cycle is self perpetuating. Just like the "war on terror" which is obviously a war on a Verb- which we know Verbs are actions and cannot surrender. Only Nouns can surrender.

    No joke... the elephant in the room is that "rallies" and "protests" aren't helping us.
    The other elephant in the room.. It's not illegal to vote in this country. It's not.

    So FEW people end up voting and what's really sick is how VERY FEW people vote in the Primary.

    What's even sicker is this whole "Republicans" and "Democrats" LIKE THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS or Exists in Washington..

    I'm not a conspiracy theorist or "nut" or anything but it's obvious that the whole "Red" (republican) and "Blue" (democrat) is an illusion of choice.

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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    mcdonalk wrote:
    You can support the troops without supporting the war. That's all I'm going to say about it since this is obviously a sore (and off-topic) subject.

    I, for one, am glad that I was lucky enough to be born in America. I think that America is the best place to live in the entire world. If I ever change my mind, I am free to leave. That's part of why I like it.
    Why the hell would you want to support people who are killing innocent people? Not to keep the off topic rant going, but comments like this really bother me. This false sense of patriotism has been perverted from it's origins. Do you realize you're talking about supporting murderers? People who are slaughtering other people, for no reason. And you want to support them? Sorry I can't do that. Those people doing this are criminals. The only ones I will support are those with the balls enough to say NO to the machine and risk imprisonment, or worse.
    You need to remember that we are not fighting another army. Have you ever seen a military uniform over there? I'll answer that for you. NO! You've seen police, but no military. "why not" you ask? because we invaded these people and are killed them. We are killing the people! If a country invaded the U.S. and was marching the streets taking control, don't you think every person in America would be outside shooting back? Yeswe would! That is what is going on over there! We need to pull out and leave them alone.

    I just thought I'd put my .2 cents in.
    While I agree with you, even if they were advanced enough to have an army, I still would not agree with it. It is sickening to me to fathom something like that happening here. Guess what...this is an OC site. One of the recently aired footages of a chopper taking out some people showcased our troops justification for doing so. Someone was OC'ing. So they lit them up and killed them all.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    smttysmth02gt wrote:
    mcdonalk wrote:
    You can support the troops without supporting the war. That's all I'm going to say about it since this is obviously a sore (and off-topic) subject.

    I, for one, am glad that I was lucky enough to be born in America. I think that America is the best place to live in the entire world. If I ever change my mind, I am free to leave. That's part of why I like it.
    Why the hell would you want to support people who are killing innocent people? Not to keep the off topic rant going, but comments like this really bother me. This false sense of patriotism has been perverted from it's origins. Do you realize you're talking about supporting murderers? People who are slaughtering other people, for no reason. And you want to support them? Sorry I can't do that. Those people doing this are criminals. The only ones I will support are those with the balls enough to say NO to the machine and risk imprisonment, or worse.
    You need to remember that we are not fighting another army. Have you ever seen a military uniform over there? I'll answer that for you. NO! You've seen police, but no military. "why not" you ask? because we invaded these people and are killed them. We are killing the people! If a country invaded the U.S. and was marching the streets taking control, don't you think every person in America would be outside shooting back? Yeswe would! That is what is going on over there! We need to pull out and leave them alone.

    I just thought I'd put my .2 cents in.
    While I agree with you, even if they were advanced enough to have an army, I still would not agree with it. It is sickening to me to fathom something like that happening here. Guess what...this is an OC site. One of the recently aired footages of a chopper taking out some people showcased our troops justification for doing so. Someone was OC'ing. So they lit them up and killed them all.
    There is the problem. A weapon is used for protection and many see it as a sign of violence. I'm a calm, non-violent person... but I OC a pistol. I guess I need to be shot as well. (sarcasm)

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