Tased a man today

imported post

I have been browsing this forum for quite a while, and I just decided to make an account on here to share my story today.

I had just left the T Mobile store down at the Kent Station earlier this afternoon. I walked over to the transit center station to meet a friend who I was suppose to pick up. While waiting, I couldn't help to notice a young man, probably in his early to mid 20's, yelling with a girl around the same age. They were both arguing with each other, and I never caught what originally started it. It was fairly busy there, probably about 15 or so other people, and everyone was sort of minding their own business.

I was sure to keep an eye on things in case they escalated further. I didn't see any security anywhere in sight. About a minute passes by, and I see the man start putting his hands on the girl. He was grabbing her shirt, and pushing her back. She started yelling at him to let her go, but he started yelling even louder. I figured security would be there soon, seeing how they're normally around, but nothing at all.

I then walked over to them and asked if there was a problem. The guy immediately turned around and yelled some obscenities at me, telling me to mind my own (explicit) business while still yanking around the girl. I told him that he should let her go, then suddenly, he spits at me, and starts walking over to me in a not so friendly manner. Note I was about 12 or so feet away from him originally. I quickly told him to stop where he's at or I'll taze him. (I was carrying both my Taser M26C and my Beretta 92, both which were concealed)

He didn't really acknowledge anything I said, and I, not knowing what this guy was going to do, pulled out my taser and quickly fired it at him. Both prongs hit him dead center mass, and he immediately dropped to the ground. The taser normally gives a 30 second charge, but I stopped it after about 4 seconds, assuming he was going to start complying. I told him to stay where he was at, and I called the police. Fortunately, it only took the police a matter of seconds to arrive, as one must have already been in the area.

The officer showed up, and I gave a report of what happened. Surprisingly the girl in the story gave her story too, and thankfully she did say that the man put his hands on her and started pushing her around. The officer also got several reports from other people whom were present, and everyone's story added up. One citizen did mention that he heard me say that I will tase him if he doesn't stop.

After all the dust was settled, the man was arrested on assault in the 4th degree, and took down my information. He said that I may be summoned to court by the prosecutor as a witness, if the man decides to plead not guilty and take it to trial. Chances are slim that he will, considering the evidence that's stacked against him, but just in case..

Glad I had my taser on me. I feel that was a situation that called for it.

imported post

We seem to be getting a lot of stories lately of folks inserting themselves into a situation before force is required, prompting a hostile response, and being then compelled to threaten or use force.

Had I been in this situation, I would have called 911. I would not have intervened unless and until there appeared to be threat to life or limb.

What was witnessed, before intervention, was at worst a simple assault. Once the full facts of the situation were known, it could turn out to be no crime on the man's part at all. Although this is highly unlikely, it is possible and, if true, it means that the man was prompted to assault the interloper, leading to the tasing, which might otherwise not have been necessary.

I hope that folks that OC don't see themselves as needing to insert themselves in every fracas that erupts. Personally, I won't insert myself into a situation unless I am sure that there is a threat to life or limb. Time permitting, I will always call 911 first.

imported post

Smart move, in my opinion. Not to mention brave. Who knows if the man was intoxicated or under some narcotics, or had a previous history of assault. It could have escalated, and he could have hurt the girl. (Or he may not have - who knows) But as a wise man once said

"All it takes for evil to conquer is for a good man to do nothing"

Also good that you didn't have to resort to drawing your firearm.

imported post

Its good that you were using a taser, a can of mace in such a crowd might not have been as well recieved. I think i'll look into getting a taser gun.

Edit - Wow very expensive.

imported post

eye95 wrote:

We seem to be getting a lot of stories lately of folks inserting themselves into a situation before force is required, prompting a hostile response, and being then compelled to threaten or use force.

Had I been in this situation, I would have called 911. I would not have intervened unless and until there appeared to be threat to life or limb.

What was witnessed, before intervention, was at worst a simple assault. Once the full facts of the situation were known, it could turn out to be no crime on the man's part at all. Although this is highly unlikely, it is possible and, if true, it means that the man was prompted to assault the interloper, leading to the tasing, which might otherwise not have been necessary.

I hope that folks that OC don't see themselves as needing to insert themselves in every fracas that erupts. Personally, I won't insert myself into a situation unless I am sure that there is a threat to life or limb. Time permitting, I will always call 911 first.

Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly

imported post

nofoa wrote:

Its good that you were using a taser, a can of mace in such a crowd might not have been as well recieved. I think i'll look into getting a taser gun.

Click to expand...

Yeah, using any type of spray in a crowded area would suck for everyone.

imported post

i am with eye95, i don't know why you put yourself into that situation. call the cops. no one is in any real danger. you are risking a lot for someone you don't even know and who may not even want your help.

imported post

I had a very similar encounter last year, man assaulting woman. I called the police as it was late at night and no one was around to help or be a witness. The assailant was very close to getting tased, for he surely was unlawfully battering that woman. Fortunately my choice was made for me when he stopped and they went into their apartment where the police found him and he decide to be a tough guy and resist arrest and try to batter a police officer. He lost badly.

I think the OP did a right and brave thing.

imported post

longwatch wrote:

I had a very similar encounter last year, man assaulting woman. I called the police as it was late at night and no one was around to help or be a witness. The assailant was very close to getting tased, for he surely was unlawfully battering that woman. Fortunately my choice was made for me when he stopped and they went into their apartment where the police found him and he decide to be a tough guy and resist arrest and try to batter a police officer. He lost badly.

I think the OP did a right and brave thing.

Click to expand...

Yep. I agree. The man was pushing her around. That's assault. That's where it needs to stop. At least in my opinion.

imported post

I'm glad the gentleman helped the lady. You took a big risk, of course. She might have lied about the assault. Lots of things... standing by while he abused her, waiting for the cops to come, would not be an option for me either.

But the saddest part of the whole story is the fact that the lady had not taken responsibility for her own life and safety. She should have been prepared to defend herself.

If you count on other people to rescue you, the risk is that nobody will come - at least in time. Dial 911 and die...

imported post

MamaLiberty wrote:

You took a big risk, of course. She might have lied about the assault.

Click to expand...

This is why one should not step in unless there is threat to life of limb. If she lies to the cops, the person who stepped in to help could find himself in jail for assault. Tasing someone is assault. Defense of self or others is a defense in court. But, it relies heavily on the testimony of the other person who was being defended.

Again, the test to me is protecting life or limb. If the guy pulled a weapon or had the woman down on the ground and pummeling her, step in. The way the situation was described, call 911 and stand by, ready to step in.

imported post

eye95 wrote:

MamaLiberty wrote:

You took a big risk, of course. She might have lied about the assault.

Click to expand...

This is why one should not step in unless there is threat to life of limb. If she lies to the cops, the person who stepped in to help could find himself in jail for assault. Tasing someone is assault. Defense of self or others is a defense in court. But, it relies heavily on the testimony of the other person who was being defended.

Again, the test to me is protecting life or limb. If the guy pulled a weapon or had the woman down on the ground and pummeling her, step in. The way the situation was described, call 911 and stand by, ready to step in.

Click to expand...

Not having been there, none of the rest of us knows the exact danger this lady was in, of course. But assault of a woman, by almost any man, IS a definite threat to her life and limbs. Waiting until he has her on the ground, beating her senseless, might be much too late.

I find it difficult to believe that any decent man could simply stand by and watch a woman being abused that way - even if all he had were his fists.

But, each to his/her own. The key is still self defense, by the woman. SHE is ultimately responsible for assessing the threat level and the appropriate response. And for having the appropriate tools to carry that out.

imported post

MamaLiberty wrote:

eye95 wrote:

MamaLiberty wrote:

You took a big risk, of course. She might have lied about the assault.

Click to expand...

This is why one should not step in unless there is threat to life of limb. If she lies to the cops, the person who stepped in to help could find himself in jail for assault. Tasing someone is assault. Defense of self or others is a defense in court. But, it relies heavily on the testimony of the other person who was being defended.

Again, the test to me is protecting life or limb. If the guy pulled a weapon or had the woman down on the ground and pummeling her, step in. The way the situation was described, call 911 and stand by, ready to step in.

Click to expand...

Not having been there, none of the rest of us knows the exact danger this lady was in, of course. But assault of a woman, by almost any man, IS a definite threat to her life and limbs. Waiting until he has her on the ground, beating her senseless, might be much too late.

I find it difficult to believe that any decent man could simply stand by and watch a woman being abused that way - even if all he had were his fists.

But, each to his/her own. The key is still self defense, by the woman. SHE is ultimately responsible for assessing the threat level and the appropriate response. And for having the appropriate tools to carry that out.

Click to expand...

We have his description. If we accept his story, we accept his description of the altercation. Grabbing a shirt and pushing is no threat to life or limb.

I have to completely disagree with the hyperbolic statement that any abuse is a threat to life limb. Shoot a man who shoves a woman, and watch where that lands you in some States!

I agree that the woman should take responsibility for her own defense. Others should be willing to step in, but only after reasoned consideration of the life or limb test.

Until and unless immediate action is needed to protect life or limb, call 911 and be ready.

imported post

I agree with eye, you shouldn't use a gun or taser unless a life is in danger. I just don't see it in this case. The OP should have carried openly, it may have deterred the crime.

imported post

eye95 wrote:

I have to completely disagree with the hyperbolic statement that any abuse is a threat to life limb. Shoot a man who shoves a woman, and watch where that lands you in some States!

I agree that the woman should take responsibility for her own defense. Others should be willing to step in, but only after reasoned consideration of the life or limb test.

Until and unless immediate action is needed to protect life or limb, call 911 and be ready.

Click to expand...

I don't recall any of us saying that he should have shot the man. Intervention might require only a word, but just standing by as any weaker person is abused seems terribly cowardly. This "life or limb" test is far too nebulous for my tastes. I'm glad I don't have to rely on YOU for my safety... which, of course, is exactly why I do not.

And yes, if the OP had been armed visibly, that might have ended it right there.

imported post

MamaLiberty wrote:

eye95 wrote:

I have to completely disagree with the hyperbolic statement that any abuse is a threat to life limb. Shoot a man who shoves a woman, and watch where that lands you in some States!

I agree that the woman should take responsibility for her own defense. Others should be willing to step in, but only after reasoned consideration of the life or limb test.

Until and unless immediate action is needed to protect life or limb, call 911 and be ready.

Click to expand...

I don't recall any of us saying that he should have shot the man. Intervention might require only a word, but just standing by as any weaker person is abused seems terribly cowardly. This "life or limb" test is far too nebulous for my tastes. I'm glad I don't have to rely on YOU for my safety... which, of course, is exactly why I do not.

And yes, if the OP had been armed visibly, that might have ended it right there.

Click to expand...

And I don't recall anyone saying that he shouldn't have shot the man.

My point was that you hyperbolically stated that any abuse was a threat to life or limb. To point out the folly of this statement, I asked that folks consider what would happen if (in the most general of examples, not this case specifically) someone (anyone) shot a person for simply having shoved a woman. Likely, he would have gone to prison. Clearly, not all abuse constitutes threat to life or limb.

IMO, the original poster's story did not illustrate any threat to life or limb. Therefore, he should not have stepped in.

imported post

eye95 wrote:

MamaLiberty wrote:

eye95 wrote:

I have to completely disagree with the hyperbolic statement that any abuse is a threat to life limb. Shoot a man who shoves a woman, and watch where that lands you in some States!

I agree that the woman should take responsibility for her own defense. Others should be willing to step in, but only after reasoned consideration of the life or limb test.

Until and unless immediate action is needed to protect life or limb, call 911 and be ready.

Click to expand...

I don't recall any of us saying that he should have shot the man. Intervention might require only a word, but just standing by as any weaker person is abused seems terribly cowardly. This "life or limb" test is far too nebulous for my tastes. I'm glad I don't have to rely on YOU for my safety... which, of course, is exactly why I do not.

And yes, if the OP had been armed visibly, that might have ended it right there.

Click to expand...

And I don't recall anyone saying that he shouldn't have shot the man.

My point was that you hyperbolically stated that any abuse was a threat to life or limb. To point out the folly of this statement, I asked that folks consider what would happen if (in the most general of examples, not this case specifically) someone (anyone) shot a person for simply having shoved a woman. Likely, he would have gone to prison. Clearly, not all abuse constitutes threat to life or limb.

IMO, the original poster's story did not illustrate any threat to life or limb. Therefore, he should not have stepped in.

Click to expand...

Eh. I disagree. To each his own. Some choose to sit and watch, while others choose to act. According to him, everything turned out just fine for others. Not to mention, there were a ton of witnesses around, and he did holler that he was going to taze him if he got closer.

imported post

calling BS on this...

I checked out the surrounding jails and can find no evidence that this happened...

http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/corrections/jils/JailRegister.asp?s_Booking_Name=&s_Booking_No=&s_Date_of_Birth=&s_Race=&s_Sex=&FormGrid_Sorting=3&FormGrid_Sorted=3&

or

http://ingress.kingcounty.gov/inmatelookup/InterimResults.aspx

imported post

longwatch wrote:

I had a very similar encounter last year, man assaulting woman. I called the police as it was late at night and no one was around to help or be a witness. The assailant was very close to getting tased, for he surely was unlawfully battering that woman. Fortunately my choice was made for me when he stopped and they went into their apartment where the police found him and he decide to be a tough guy and resist arrest and try to batter a police officer. He lost badly.

I think the OP did a right and brave thing.

Click to expand...

Right and brave from the victims perspective for sure.

imported post

I think that too many people stand around and do nothing. They just act like the abuse of another person is essentially none of their business. I only recently started entertaining the less lethal option for carry with my firearm, but another thing that can be done is a call to action. If there are several witnesses, you could say something like "Are we all going to stand around and watch this?! There are more of us than him!"

Direct someone to call the police and others can join you in at least getting between the man and the woman. No weapons need to be drawn in that situation hopefully.

I think the OP was right in intervening, because who knows what may have happened if no one was there, or when they get to some secluded spot? That woman's life could have possibly been saved by that Taser.

What would I do in that situation? Call the police and stand by for action if needed.