Tased a man today

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kwikrnu wrote:

I agree with eye, you shouldn't use a gun or taser unless a life is in danger. I just don't see it in this case. The OP should have carried openly, it may have deterred the crime.

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Cops use tasers all the time.....even when there isn't a life threatening situation(it that case they just shoot you). I dont agree with eye, why wait till it escalates? It could go from him shoving her to stabbing/shooting her in a split second. If this is a true story(seems kinda fishy), then thumbs up to the OP.

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Two things. It was wise to tase the guy instead of shoot him because there was no threat to life or limb. With that said, unless the guy had the woman on the ground and beating her near to death, I don't understand why you intervened. I understand some people like to "do the right thing", but what if he was intoxicated or on narcotics? He could have let her go, walked away, and came back with a shotgun before you even knew what was going on.

This is just my opinion. I do not believe you should have stepped in. Couples fight all the time and some people get, shall we say, pushy? IE: grabbing shirts, yelling, cursing, etc.

It also opens you up to a world of lawsuits and criminal cases. Like you said, you "didn't hear what started it" so there'sno way to know what did. I recommend calling the police and watching from a distance in case things escalate...

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Well when you're getting tased, you can't really get up and go grab a shotgun. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post though.

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No I was saying, when he originally approached them and told him to back off. He could have just let her go and gotten his shotgun from the truck of his car. Then came back

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Folks in the WA forum (the other place the OP posted his story, his only other post on the site) have pretty much concluded that this is BS.

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I find it a bit disturbing how every time someone posts a self-defense story, people instantly call the story BS and the ones who don't criticize the person's actions. It seems like this whole site lately is just armchair quarterbacking. I'm sorry but unless someone says something that clearly sounds far-fetched I don't automatically assume that they are lying. People who seem to constantly be suspicious of everyone else lying all the time seem to have a problem with themselves.

Back to the actual story, it sounds like this was handled properly. Some people seem to believe "don't get involved." In a case like this I disagree. Our society needs to have some brave decent citizens who help each other out in time of need. My personal experiences with calling the police in general have shown how inefficient the police are. I have been on hold for minutes to 911, been hung up on, and even received a busy signal. Many times when they finally answer they ask me to repeat the same information three or more times, I give very specific directions yet by the time I see the police in the distance I realize they have gotten lost and are going up the next street, etc. If they are lucky enough to catch the perp with whatever it was he did, chances are he will receive a warning or be let off on some technicality.

When it comes to getting involved or not, there are certain things to consider. The two big ones are: Do you have enough information on the situation at hand to decide on a proper course of action? and Are you capable of intervening?

Here is an example where I wouldn't intervene: Say at my apartment I hear a woman screaming, I go out to look, and hear it coming from inside a particular apartment, but I can't see anything that is going on. It could be the TV too loud or she could be screaming about something unimportant or it could be life-or-death. In such case I would call 911 and let the authorities handle it since I don't have enough information to go from. Another example: Say I walk into a store and suddenly notice a man in a corner with a knife to a woman's throat using her as a shield. He also claims to have a bomb. While I would be armed this situation would clearly need ahighly-trained tactical response that I am simply not capable of handling.

In the case of this man grabbing this woman as stated in the OP, the individual met both requirements: he had enough information to go from and he was capable of dealing with it. While he admitted he didn't know how the argument got started, it became clear who was using illegal physical force and who was requiring self-defense. He had a taser ready to use for non-deadly force and a firearm in case deadly force was afterall needed. Not getting invovled could have been more unwise than getting involved. For instance, if the person had dialed 911 instead of confronting the attacker, the attacker may have noticed him on his phone and attacked him anyway. He now would have to drop the phone to free his hands to get the taser adding unnecessary time to the equation. If he had simply just stood there and not done a thing, the attacker could have started killing the woman or even started attacking other people. He could have grabbed a gun and shot her, shot others, and then taken someone hostage. Why wait until a minor situation becomes a catastrophe to act?

Apparently that is what a lot of members of OCDO seem to want to do: armchair quarterback on others yet do nothing when something happens to them. I don't see the purpose of OCing or even carrying at all if you have no intention of ever protecting people in need. As far as I'm concerned, your gun is simply an expensive toy and you should leave it at home with your other toys.

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The BS was called after people had researched police records in the area and found no arrest that would fit the description of the event. The poster was a one double-hit wonder. This wasn't people just saying BS because the story sounded fishy.

Also, portraying those who criticize the actions taken in the story as saying, "Don't get involved," is a disingenuous misrepresentation of what is being said.

Consistently the message has been: "Get involved, but don't use weapons unless there is threat to life or limb. Instead, call 911. Don't make judgments as to who the assaulter and assaultee are unless, again, there is threat to life or limb. Pushing and grabbing at clothing, while technically (absent self-defense) assault, is by no means a threat to life or limb."

Use judgment folks. We ain't LEOs. (Some people need to hear that.)

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eye95 wrote:

The BS was called after people had researched police records in the area and found no arrest that would fit the description of the event. The poster was a one double-hit wonder. This wasn't people just saying BS because the story sounded fishy.

Also, portraying those who criticize the actions taken in the story as saying, "Don't get involved," is a disingenuous misrepresentation of what is being said.

Consistently the message has been: "Get involved, but don't use weapons unless there is threat to life or limb. Instead, call 911. Don't make judgments as to who the assaulter and assaultee are unless, again, there is threat to life or limb. Pushing and grabbing at clothing, while technically (absent self-defense) assault, is by no means a threat to life or limb."

Use judgment folks. We ain't LEOs. (Some people need to hear that.)

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I agree. Also, I'd say it moreso than this, as an enforcement on one's own self interest. Anytime minimal involvement is an opportunity, it should be taken at all costs. You don't want to end up in court, or worse, in the slammer.

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Two shot drive-by and that conclusion isn't the one reached through Monday morning quarterbacking - that's the result of research.

We have had a plethora of such first time posters lately and are becoming quite adept at sniffing them out. When something smells funny, chances are good that there's something rotten inside.

Yata hey

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I think the OP was fishing for a place to try out his/her new Taser, Interjecting yourself into a domestic dispute, Physical of not when there was plenty of time to Call the public servants was in my opinion the actions of a opportunist hero, Your lucky the gal wasn't packing and punched you in center mass, under the anticipation that she may be next with the Taser.. You didn't save a life, you were successfully Nosey, but their is still time for the victim to counter you and file charges so hold onto that big blue ribbon you recieved, It may be the only belonging you have if the victim hires a high dollar shyster.. I don'tread that anyone was in fear for their life at the point of the Tasing! keep those eyes in the back of your head peeled, BillyBob may very well be tracking your schedule.

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Not sure if the OP has been back to the forum since posting, but I feel I should defend his actions. In my honest opinion, I feel I would have done the same thing. That comes from a man who also owns a taser. It's definitely a product that works excellent in these type of situations where lethal force isn't necessarily justified.

He was armed with his taser and firearm. The man was approaching him after being told not to. Do you expect the man to just stand there and wait for the man to assault him? Do you think he should have engaged in a grappling match with him and risked his weapons being taken from him, or falling off of their holster?

He did the right thing, in my opinion. Many people may not feel this way, but I agree 100% that he did the right thing. An argument is one thing, but laying your hands on someone, especially a female, is taking it to a completely different level. What if the man ended up pushing her to the ground, physically striking her, or causing some other sort of injury while he was "waiting for the police to arrive"?

As one of the other posters said, if you're going to carry weapons for defense of self or others, don't be afraid to use them if the situation calls for it. I'm not saying you should just go through yourself in danger's path, but if you happen to find yourself in that type of situation, don't be afraid to intervene if you feel it's appropriate. In this case, given the number of witnesses, and the fact that he announced that he will tase him, I feel it's completely justified.

Oh, and good luck to the attacker in a civil lawsuit. Chances are, if he's convicted, he stands a very small chance of actually winning a lawsuit. Given the evidence posted in the OP, there's plenty of evidence stacked against him.

This is exactly what tasers and sprays are for; non lethal methods for disabling an attacker where a firearm wouldn't necessarily be appropriate.

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Carnivore wrote:

I think the OP was fishing for a place to try out his/her new Taser, Interjecting yourself into a domestic dispute, Physical of not when there was plenty of time to Call the public servants was in my opinion the actions of a opportunist hero, Your lucky the gal wasn't packing and punched you in center mass, under the anticipation that she may be next with the Taser.. You didn't save a life, you were successfully Nosey, but their is still time for the victim to counter you and file charges so hold onto that big blue ribbon you recieved, It may be the only belonging you have if the victim hires a high dollar shyster.. I don'tread that anyone was in fear for their life at the point of the Tasing! keep those eyes in the back of your head peeled, BillyBob may very well be tracking your schedule.

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I hadn't considered that. One more reason to not escalate unless life or limb was in danger.

I can hear her talking to the cops now: "Me and my boyfriend was just havin' a fight, and this guy draws on my boyfriend. I didn't know it was just a taser or whether he had a gun. I was scared for my boyfriend and me, so I defended us. I really didn't want to kill him. I was just scared."

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eye95 wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

I think the OP was fishing for a place to try out his/her new Taser, Interjecting yourself into a domestic dispute, Physical of not when there was plenty of time to Call the public servants was in my opinion the actions of a opportunist hero, Your lucky the gal wasn't packing and punched you in center mass, under the anticipation that she may be next with the Taser.. You didn't save a life, you were successfully Nosey, but their is still time for the victim to counter you and file charges so hold onto that big blue ribbon you recieved, It may be the only belonging you have if the victim hires a high dollar shyster.. I don'tread that anyone was in fear for their life at the point of the Tasing! keep those eyes in the back of your head peeled, BillyBob may very well be tracking your schedule.

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I hadn't considered that. One more reason to not escalate unless life or limb was in danger.

I can hear her talking to the cops now: "Me and my boyfriend was just havin' a fight, and this guy draws on my boyfriend. I didn't know it was just a taser or whether he had a gun. I was scared for my boyfriend and me, so I defended us. I really didn't want to kill him. I was just scared."

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Well it didn't end that way. Some people choose to sit on the back burner. I, for one, am very glad to read the OP's story. If I'm faced with a civil lawsuit for standing up for what I believe in, then so be it. I am confident enough that I will make a decision for the better. You can ponder a "What if" situation all day long. You can look at it the other way as well. "What if" the OP just decided to stand there, and the attacker proceeded to knock her to the ground, or cause serious injuries?

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Aaron1124 wrote:

eye95 wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

I think the OP was fishing for a place to try out his/her new Taser, Interjecting yourself into a domestic dispute, Physical of not when there was plenty of time to Call the public servants was in my opinion the actions of a opportunist hero, Your lucky the gal wasn't packing and punched you in center mass, under the anticipation that she may be next with the Taser.. You didn't save a life, you were successfully Nosey, but their is still time for the victim to counter you and file charges so hold onto that big blue ribbon you recieved, It may be the only belonging you have if the victim hires a high dollar shyster.. I don'tread that anyone was in fear for their life at the point of the Tasing! keep those eyes in the back of your head peeled, BillyBob may very well be tracking your schedule.

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I hadn't considered that. One more reason to not escalate unless life or limb was in danger.

I can hear her talking to the cops now: "Me and my boyfriend was just havin' a fight, and this guy draws on my boyfriend. I didn't know it was just a taser or whether he had a gun. I was scared for my boyfriend and me, so I defended us. I really didn't want to kill him. I was just scared."

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Well it didn't end that way. Some people choose to sit on the back burner. I, for one, am very glad to read the OP's story. If I'm faced with a civil lawsuit for standing up for what I believe in, then so be it. I am confident enough that I will make a decision for the better. You can ponder a "What if" situation all day long. You can look at it the other way as well. "What if" the OP just decided to stand there, and the attacker proceeded to knock her to the ground, or cause serious injuries?

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Again with the mischaracterization. No one is saying do nothing--or sit on the back burner, as you phrased it. Those who disagree with the OP's overreaction are consistently saying to call 911. Do not intervene with force unless there is threat to life or limb.

It is disingenuous to imply that we say to do nothing.

Intervening in a bit of pushing and grabbing is just asking to have both of them turn on you. It was incredibly stupid of him to step in. It was his stepping in that caused the escalation. He is lucky that one of the following didn't result: an assault charge, a lawsuit, injury, or death. The situation was not so harsh that he could not have called 911 and waited, ready to respond should the situation escalate. He isn't a LEO and shouldn't act as though he were.

I know I'm not going to change the minds of those praising the intervention. I only hope that someone reads this and thinks clearly before he goes all LEO on a couple, counting on the woman to act rationally. She probably won't.

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eye95 wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

eye95 wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

I think the OP was fishing for a place to try out his/her new Taser, Interjecting yourself into a domestic dispute, Physical of not when there was plenty of time to Call the public servants was in my opinion the actions of a opportunist hero, Your lucky the gal wasn't packing and punched you in center mass, under the anticipation that she may be next with the Taser.. You didn't save a life, you were successfully Nosey, but their is still time for the victim to counter you and file charges so hold onto that big blue ribbon you recieved, It may be the only belonging you have if the victim hires a high dollar shyster.. I don'tread that anyone was in fear for their life at the point of the Tasing! keep those eyes in the back of your head peeled, BillyBob may very well be tracking your schedule.

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I hadn't considered that. One more reason to not escalate unless life or limb was in danger.

I can hear her talking to the cops now: "Me and my boyfriend was just havin' a fight, and this guy draws on my boyfriend. I didn't know it was just a taser or whether he had a gun. I was scared for my boyfriend and me, so I defended us. I really didn't want to kill him. I was just scared."

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Well it didn't end that way. Some people choose to sit on the back burner. I, for one, am very glad to read the OP's story. If I'm faced with a civil lawsuit for standing up for what I believe in, then so be it. I am confident enough that I will make a decision for the better. You can ponder a "What if" situation all day long. You can look at it the other way as well. "What if" the OP just decided to stand there, and the attacker proceeded to knock her to the ground, or cause serious injuries?

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Again with the mischaracterization. No one is saying do nothing--or sit on the back burner, as you phrased it. Those who disagree with the OP's overreaction are consistently saying to call 911. Do not intervene with force unless there is threat to life or limb.

It is disingenuous to imply that we say to do nothing.

Intervening in a bit of pushing and grabbing is just asking to have both of them turn on you. It was incredibly stupid of him to step in. It was his stepping in that caused the escalation. He is lucky that one of the following didn't result: an assault charge, a lawsuit, injury, or death. The situation was not so harsh that he could not have called 911 and waited, ready to respond should the situation escalate. He isn't a LEO and shouldn't act as though he were.

I know I'm not going to change the minds of those praising the intervention. I only hope that someone reads this and thinks clearly before he goes all LEO on a couple, counting on the woman to act rationally. She probably won't.

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But it wasn't just the woman to serve as a witness, there were supposedly many people in the area. I know what you're saying, and I understand it, I'm just respectfully saying that I support his actions, if his story did happen.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you not think the man was justified in using the taser on the "suspect" after announcing him that he'll tase him, and the man continued to approach him? I don't think the suspect was going over to him to shake his hand or ask him for directions.

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Aaron1124 wrote:

But it wasn't just the woman to serve as a witness, there were supposedly many people in the area. I know what you're saying, and I understand it, I'm just respectfully saying that I support his actions, if his story did happen.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you not think the man was justified in using the taser on the "suspect" after announcing him that he'll tase him, and the man continued to approach him? I don't think the suspect was going over to him to shake his hand or ask him for directions.

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He was justified in defending himself after the man turned on him, but if he just called 911 and watched to make sure it didn't escalate, his actions would not be required.

You can really look at this several different ways. Therewill be many opinions in the matter but those "what ifs" everyone keeps talking about could happen. When youconfront peoplewith a situation that is not life threatening, you put yourself in a situation where those "what ifs" may happen. I'm not saying to "stay out of it", just don't jump in and escalate the problem.

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Hollowpoint38 wrote:

Aaron1124 wrote:

But it wasn't just the woman to serve as a witness, there were supposedly many people in the area. I know what you're saying, and I understand it, I'm just respectfully saying that I support his actions, if his story did happen.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you not think the man was justified in using the taser on the "suspect" after announcing him that he'll tase him, and the man continued to approach him? I don't think the suspect was going over to him to shake his hand or ask him for directions.

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He was justified in defending himself after the man turned on him, but if he just called 911 and watched to make sure it didn't escalate, his actions would not be required.

You can really look at this several different ways. Therewill be many opinions in the matter but those "what ifs" everyone keeps talking about could happen. When youconfront peoplewith a situation that is not life threatening, you put yourself in a situation where those "what ifs" may happen. I'm not saying to "stay out of it", just don't jump in and escalate the problem.

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That's respectable. I guess what many people are saying is that if the man just stood there and called 911, while observing, he may not have needed to tase the man, and the man may not have been arrested, basically leaving everyone with a bit better of a day. Makes sense. Still can't say I blame the guy for acting though. Again, to each his own.

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I'll jump on the BS Bandwagon on this one. There are several red flags in this story.

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deepdiver wrote:

I'll jump on the BS Bandwagon on this one. There are several red flags in this story.

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What? The fact that he specifically said that he left the T Mobile store? (I don't really care what the purpose for him being down there was)

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deepdiver wrote:

I'll jump on the BS Bandwagon on this one. There are several red flags in this story.

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What are the "several red flags" you speak of? I didn't see any but maybe I missed them. Please support your argument if you are going to call BS. Thanx.