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Tased a man today

eye95

eye95

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Aaron1124 wrote:
But it wasn't just the woman to serve as a witness, there were supposedly many people in the area. I know what you're saying, and I understand it, I'm just respectfully saying that I support his actions, if his story did happen.

Just out of pure curiosity, do you not think the man was justified in using the taser on the "suspect" after announcing him that he'll tase him, and the man continued to approach him? I don't think the suspect was going over to him to shake his hand or ask him for directions.
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Once he placed himself in the situation where it looked like he was going to be attacked, tasing was the best course.

However, he should never have put himself in that situation. He may yet suffer legally for it. One could argue that he was the aggressor against the man he tased. That man was defending himself and got tased for defending himself.

If things happened as reported, that would seem unreasonable. However, if the woman decides she and her boyfriend might get to share a nice payday, the court might not hear exactly the same story we did.

Inserting one's self into a "domestic situation" is fraught with danger, physical and legal danger. Unless there is danger to life or limb--which there was not, I have to again strongly speak out against such action.
 
buster81

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I really enjoy reading about the two different views to this little story. I'll give my two cents.

When I was much younger (and much more stupid) I had a similar run in with a couple. They were having a heated debate (about what I don't know) and the male half of the two had the female blocked from leaving. They were standing against a bar in a corner so she couldn't go around him while they were arguing. They both did a bit of pushing and grabbing, but he was much larger and would haveobviouslydominated anyphysical actionthat may have developed.

At this point, I felt the need to try to cool the situation down before someone got hurt.I injected myselfand attempted tore-direct the conversation. He didn't like that plan, so we ended up with hands on each other. Of course I felt like I was helping her out by preventing her from taking a beating, but it doesn't seem that she really appreciated it. She jumped on my back and started to strike me. Now, I had to deal with her boyfriend/husband/pimp or whatever he was, while she was defending him by riding around on my back. It didn't work out too good for me as we wrestled around and attempted toexchanged some punches.

The bouncers at this establishment got involved and sent me out the back door into the alley. I have no idea what happened to the lovingcouple.After I got the blood from myface cleaned up, I appreciated the opportunity to learn a valuablelife lesson. My policy now is to assume I do not have all of the information necessary to intervene in others people's business, unless I actuallydo have all the information necessary. I also do not assume it is my job to save all others from situations they may or may not have started themselves and perhaps do not want to be saved from. As always, others may do whatever they choose.

So, that was a longer post than I intended, but applied tothe OP, I would have assumed that any intervention into their business would have resulted in dealing with two opponents. As I said, others may dealwith thesesituations however they chose, but should know that partners in abusive relationships often come to the aid of their significant other against any and all comers including the police. Getting shot/stabbed/tasered/pepper sprayed or clubbed by the female while "protecting"her from something she may not want to be protected from, or may have started herself, would be unwise. At least, unwise for me. I have a family of my own that I am responsible for. I can't help, protect or provide for them while in the morgue, hospital or jail.

Now, that is a full two cents worth.
 
Superlite27

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I wonder if he's related to Gixxer? (Read an account of Gixxer's heroism here:http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/39598.html )

Both seem like picture perfect examples of the perfectly timed and coordinated self-defense situation.

As we all know, in real life, the bad guy always threatens you at a distance and approaches you in a threatening manner after committing a violent act in front of numerous witnesses.

Then after you perform your daring act of heroism, the crowd goes wild! (insert cheering crowd) then the police arrive and congratulate you on your wonderful performance. Everyone rides off into the sunset and the world is a better place.

Nothing ever goes screwey and happens in an unpredictable manner when you jump into situations that don't involve you. All outcomes are always peachy. You don't ever need to remain silent in order to keep from involving you in a lawsuit. Heck, you won't even need an attorney after using a (nonlethal) weapon on another human being.

Everyone will cheer. This is what always happens.

But, if we keep getting acccounts of these daring acts of courageous altruism, they won't be so heroic anymore. After all, when these wonderful scenarios of heroic bravery start getting posted here regularly, how can we say they are so special? After all, when we hear folks relate stupendous tales of these happenings on a regular basis, how can they be called "uncommon"?

Heck, now that we're getting two or three every week or so, I'm starting to feel a little inferior.

After all, I've got several hundred posts, have been carrying a handgun (no taser for me yet) for years and years, and I've never had to pull it out of its holster. Don't really want to either. (Much less post stories about it.)

Imagine, only one post, and you've already been a hero. (With a taser, none the less).

How picture perfect.
 
rscottie

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eye95 wrote:
We seem to be getting a lot of stories lately of folks inserting themselves into a situation before force is required, prompting a hostile response, and being then compelled to threaten or use force.

Had I been in this situation, I would have called 911. I would not have intervened unless and until there appeared to be threat to life or limb.

What was witnessed, before intervention, was at worst a simple assault. Once the full facts of the situation were known, it could turn out to be no crime on the man's part at all. Although this is highly unlikely, it is possible and, if true, it means that the man was prompted to assault the interloper, leading to the tasing, which might otherwise not have been necessary.

I hope that folks that OC don't see themselves as needing to insert themselves in every fracas that erupts. Personally, I won't insert myself into a situation unless I am sure that there is a threat to life or limb. Time permitting, I will always call 911 first.
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Perhaps, but just when DO you insert yourself? After he's punched her in the face hard enough to make her fall back and hit her head on the pavement killing her?

Or, when he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing?

This guy had already begun to escalate the fight against this girl. He was willing to lay his hands on her.

Now, if he had not laid his hands on her at all and it was just an argument, then I would agree with you, but he was starting to get out of hand. You can believe that because multiple people had called 911.

Also, not only did this creep choose to lay hands on the girl, he further chose to spit (which is an assault) on the man that tried to calm the situation.

I say that the moment he came towards this gentleman and spit on him, he was fair game for the tazer if not the drawing of the firearm. Any reasonable person after the creep continued his advance towards them after spitting on them would be reasonable to assume that they were under threat of serious bodily harm and thus legal to pull their firearm. If that did not stop the advance, one would most likely be justified in pulling the trigger.

I am not a lawyer but that is my honest opinion.
 
buster81

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rscottie wrote:
Perhaps, but just when DO you insert yourself? After he's punched her in the face hard enough to make her fall back and hit her head on the pavement killing her?

Or, when he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing?

This guy had already begun to escalate the fight against this girl. He was willing to lay his hands on her.

Now, if he had not laid his hands on her at all and it was just an argument, then I would agree with you, but he was starting to get out of hand. You can believe that because multiple people had called 911.

Also, not only did this creep choose to lay hands on the girl, he further chose to spit (which is an assault) on the man that tried to calm the situation.

I say that the moment he came towards this gentleman and spit on him, he was fair game for the tazer if not the drawing of the firearm. Any reasonable person after the creep continued his advance towards them after spitting on them would be reasonable to assume that they were under threat of serious bodily harm and thus legal to pull their firearm. If that did not stop the advance, one would most likely be justified in pulling the trigger.

I am not a lawyer but that is my honest opinion.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the OP does it say that multiple people called 911. In fact it does say "about 15 or so other people, and everyone was sort of minding their own business."

Note that the OP also says"I never caught what originally started it."
 
rscottie

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buster81 wrote:
rscottie wrote:
Perhaps, but just when DO you insert yourself? After he's punched her in the face hard enough to make her fall back and hit her head on the pavement killing her?

Or, when he pulls out a knife and starts stabbing?

This guy had already begun to escalate the fight against this girl. He was willing to lay his hands on her.

Now, if he had not laid his hands on her at all and it was just an argument, then I would agree with you, but he was starting to get out of hand. You can believe that because multiple people had called 911.

Also, not only did this creep choose to lay hands on the girl, he further chose to spit (which is an assault) on the man that tried to calm the situation.

I say that the moment he came towards this gentleman and spit on him, he was fair game for the tazer if not the drawing of the firearm. Any reasonable person after the creep continued his advance towards them after spitting on them would be reasonable to assume that they were under threat of serious bodily harm and thus legal to pull their firearm. If that did not stop the advance, one would most likely be justified in pulling the trigger.

I am not a lawyer but that is my honest opinion.
Click to expand...

Nowhere in the OP does it say that multiple people called 911. In fact it does say "about 15 or so other people, and everyone was sort of minding their own business."

Note that the OP also says"I never caught what originally started it."
Click to expand...

I misread the number of 911 calls from the number that gave statements, but that is irrelevant to the questions I asked.

Each one of us has a certain amount of tolerance to others fighting and that can be due to what you were raised with. Some of us were used to seeing their dad knock the crap out of mom while most may have just heard and seen yelling.

I say that nobody should be allowed to lay hands on nobody except in self-defense. In other words, keep your hands to yourself.

My point was and still is, at what point do you yourself take action?

That has to be left up to the person on the ground that is in the situation. We cannot second guess the body language or any other factors that made this particular person (assuming the story is true) feel that he was threatened enough to use his taser.
 
A

Aaron1124

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On a side note, coming from a man who owns a taser, I would swear by it as a tool for non lethal self defense. If used properly, there's a very little chance of anyone being able to fight through it. The only time I've seen it done was when Navy Seal Chris Caracci specifically trained for it, and was able to knock one of the prongs out of him when it hit him in the chest. Otherwise it causes complete incapacitation of the neuromuscular system.
 
eye95

eye95

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buster81 wrote:
I really enjoy reading about the two different views to this little story. I'll give my two cents.

When I was much younger (and much more stupid) I had a similar run in with a couple. They were having a heated debate (about what I don't know) and the male half of the two had the female blocked from leaving. They were standing against a bar in a corner so she couldn't go around him while they were arguing. They both did a bit of pushing and grabbing, but he was much larger and would haveobviouslydominated anyphysical actionthat may have developed.

At this point, I felt the need to try to cool the situation down before someone got hurt.I injected myselfand attempted tore-direct the conversation. He didn't like that plan, so we ended up with hands on each other. Of course I felt like I was helping her out by preventing her from taking a beating, but it doesn't seem that she really appreciated it. She jumped on my back and started to strike me. Now, I had to deal with her boyfriend/husband/pimp or whatever he was, while she was defending him by riding around on my back. It didn't work out too good for me as we wrestled around and attempted toexchanged some punches.

The bouncers at this establishment got involved and sent me out the back door into the alley. I have no idea what happened to the lovingcouple.After I got the blood from myface cleaned up, I appreciated the opportunity to learn a valuablelife lesson. My policy now is to assume I do not have all of the information necessary to intervene in others people's business, unless I actuallydo have all the information necessary. I also do not assume it is my job to save all others from situations they may or may not have started themselves and perhaps do not want to be saved from. As always, others may do whatever they choose.

So, that was a longer post than I intended, but applied tothe OP, I would have assumed that any intervention into their business would have resulted in dealing with two opponents. As I said, others may dealwith thesesituations however they chose, but should know that partners in abusive relationships often come to the aid of their significant other against any and all comers including the police. Getting shot/stabbed/tasered/pepper sprayed or clubbed by the female while "protecting"her from something she may not want to be protected from, or may have started herself, would be unwise. At least, unwise for me. I have a family of my own that I am responsible for. I can't help, protect or provide for them while in the morgue, hospital or jail.

Now, that is a full two cents worth.
Click to expand...
There are three ways to learn.

1. One can listen to the wisdom others gain from their experience.

2. One can witness the epic fails of others and choose not to make the same mistakes.

3. One can piss on the electric fence himself.

Here's hoping that some folks here choose to use method 1. Your post was worth a helluva lot more than two cents.

However, I fear this place is full of #3s.
 
P

protector84

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Some people choose to sit on the back burner.
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That would be the bulk of the members on this forum. Sure, they believe in OC yet won't actually do anything OC-related to put them out of their comfort zone. No matter how many times you mention an OC dinner, the only people who show up are from other forums but nobody from here. After all, to quote one member here having a bunch of people gathering in a restaurant OCing is "grandstanding." Many people here also seem to clearly feel that while OCing is important, don't get involved no matter what. Even if a woman is being raped and butchered in front of your eyes, "you are not an LEO" don't do anything other than call 911. This place is full of useless armchair quarterbacks who basically use their guns as nothing more than expensive toys. Sad, really.
 
eye95

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hmmm...calling people who have a different POV "useless armchair quarterbacks."

Maybe the folks on your side of the issue should be called "wannabe LEOs."

Do you really think name-calling advances the debate?

I don't.
 
eye95

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Good deal.

Best of luck on the testing and may God bless you with a long, healthy, and satisfying career.
 
buster81

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LOL. I love the armchair quarterback comment. Comedy. Well,I have to go interview all of my neighbors to see if there are any possible opportunities for me to get involved in their business. Hopefully someone is talking meanly to their dog so I can pepper spray them.
 
A

Aaron1124

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In fairness, I think there's a bit of a difference between someone talking rudely to their dog vs someone physically pushing around a woman.
 
Superlite27

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protector84 wrote:
Even if a woman is being raped and butchered in front of your eyes, "you are not an LEO" don't do anything other than call 911.
Click to expand...

Maybe, if she didn't want to be raped and butchered, she should have armed herself, huh?

After all, why do I suddenly become responsible for the welfare of all innocents just because I have a firearm? I was responsible enough to carry it. Why should those not intelligent enough to doso themselves receivethe benevolence that has suddenly become required of me?

Is there something preventing her from protecting herself?

Sounds crazy, but the only people I would"interject" myself into a dangerous situation forare convicted felons and children.

After all, anyone elsecould protect themselves if they would only make the choice. Why should I use my training to saveanyone not a felon or child when they've already made the decision NOT to do so themselves?

All it takes is a choice.

They choose not to protect themselves....I choose not to protect them either.

After all,they have you.
 
cash50

cash50

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Beerme wrote:
eye95 wrote:
We seem to be getting a lot of stories lately of folks inserting themselves into a situation before force is required, prompting a hostile response, and being then compelled to threaten or use force.

Had I been in this situation, I would have called 911. I would not have intervened unless and until there appeared to be threat to life or limb.

What was witnessed, before intervention, was at worst a simple assault. Once the full facts of the situation were known, it could turn out to be no crime on the man's part at all. Although this is highly unlikely, it is possible and, if true, it means that the man was prompted to assault the interloper, leading to the tasing, which might otherwise not have been necessary.

I hope that folks that OC don't see themselves as needing to insert themselves in every fracas that erupts. Personally, I won't insert myself into a situation unless I am sure that there is a threat to life or limb. Time permitting, I will always call 911 first.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly
Click to expand...

A good stun gun doesn't cost as much though.

In MO, anyways, you can get one that'll drop someone for 60 buck at a gun show.
 
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