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Thread: Idiot in Seattle accidentally shoots neighbor in head

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    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ighbor03m.html

    Police say a man accidentally shot his neighbor in the head after pulling the trigger of his rifle in his upstairs apartment in the 4000 block of Northeast 50th Street.

    The 44-year-old victim, who was living in the apartment below, was taken to Harborview Medical Center with non-life-threatening injuries. Police say a single round was discharged during the incident, with the bullet grazing the victim. The suspect, in his 30s, was booked into the King County Jail on suspicion of reckless endangerment.

    Police say the suspect pointed the rifle down with the barrel resting on the floor as he attached the sling at about 1:30 p.m. Friday. Then he pulled the trigger, according to police, without realizing the gun was loaded.
    Can anybody count the number of gun safety this guy violated?

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    ne 50th? thats in the udistrict. oh boy.

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    Regular Member Machoduck's Avatar
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    1. The gun is always loaded.
    2. Never cover anything with the muzzle you don't want to destroy, even the floor.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
    4. Be sure of your target and what's behind it, or under it.
    5. No being stupid in a smart zone.
    6. This was even too stupid for a stupid zone.

    MD


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    Reckless endangerment is the correct charge here...and maybe the idjit learned something in the process?

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Clink!

    Goes the sound of the prison bars locking his dumb @$$ is jail.

    I Don't know how many times we have said it, but if your going to own guns, you got the take the extra responsibilities that go with them.

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    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    I have never had an accidental or negligent discharge. I have owned guns since I was 15 and am now 41. Of course I didn't scream foul, because I think it can happen.
    Live Free or Die!

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    I wasn't screaming foul (and haven't yet had an accidental/negligent discharge at 56 {knocks on wooden head})...but I do believe the appropriate charge has been filed.

    Negligent discharges can be reckless endangerment....even if an "accident"...it still is reckless.

    And if I ever have one (accidental or negligent) and it hits a person, I expect the charge to be filed against me. One of the reasons I take precautions to ensure I don't have one is the idea of hitting someone.

    On the other hand, my youngest had an ND with a shotgun once. Didn't hit anyone, but scared the crap out of him and everyone nearby. He learned a lot that day, both about his firearm and the "Wrath of Dad".....


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    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    Never have had any unintended discharge of a firearm myself...Have you? If you can't exercise proper care at all times you shouldn't ever handle a gun.

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    First, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge", only negligence.

    I have owned and carried guns for 13 years, and never had one, BUT if I do, and I shoot someone, I fully expect to be charged too, as it should be.

    It doesn't matter what the odds are, it only matters that he did, and it was his fault.

    I'm not screaming foul, I'm screaming idiot! :P

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    First, there is no such thing as an "accidental discharge", only negligence.
    Well, we used to call it that. Just like MVA - Multiple Vehicle Accident. Now it's MVC - multiple vehicle crash.

    Call it what you want - it's still the same thing. The new terminology just references that it's your fault for being an idiot.

    Negligent discharge (ND) is now used as to express that you did it - a gun typically does not go off unless YOU did something or something external. Once you have it in your hands if it's not been cleared then it's all on you.

    Safety is everyone's business. Make sure you clear it before handling any further. When you get to comfortable or relaxed with safety then things can go very wrong.



    This also illustrates that muzzle control is a factor of where you live - if you live in a multi story complex - it may not be safe to point that thing down or up or left or right. What to do? How about pointing that thing at your refrigerator or something very solid. Just remember to use some sort of backstop when you can.
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
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    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

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    How about pointing that thing at your refrigerator or something very solid?
    Your refrigerator must be of a different, and much stouter breed, than mine! :-) A outer skin of thin sheet metal, some light fluffy insulation, an inner skin also of thin sheet metal... I suppose it would stop a .25ACP round, but then again so will a thin cotton T-shirt.:?





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    Point taken on thin skinned refrigerator.

    The point being that it's a larger barrier, factor in liquid and other contents and the fact if you shoot your own refrigerator - just makes you -- more of an idiot.

    The idea is to take into consideration that your muzzle is not always the safest pointed down or up. You have to take where you live and what is behind that wall.

    As the bullet travels and has to encounter more "layers" hopefully it will lose enough energy so it doesn't travel all the way to the other apartment or living area.

    Use whatever you feel is appropriate. There are mats and such you can buy and use as bullet traps made of kevlar and other materials.
    Young Kim, NRA Endowment Member
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    "Shoot Safetly, Shoot Often and Share Your Sport!"
    Jim Scoutten, Shooting USA

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    It seems to me that its not hard to prevent pretty much ALL negligent discharges. I've owned firearms for 11 years, carried for 7, 8 years military, and 2 years in corrections and I have never had a ND.

    Then again I clear every gun I touch as soon as its in my hands, and I don't store my guns loaded (except for the shotgun in the bedroom for obvious reasons). If you have a routine with your firearms and know thier state, it seems pretty difficult to have an ND to me.

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    So let me get this straight, Not a single person has had a ND at anytime in there life for any reason? I know a few people on OCDO who have and i myself have had 1 not to long ago actually its basic math really if your gun holds 8rds in the clip and 1 in the pipe i count 9 rounds total right?

    So when you clear your weapon and have all 9 rounds in your lap and you pull the trigger and it goes bang how do you explain this? and before anyone says it i was not alone when it happened and all 9 rounds were accounted for by 2 adults who can and do count.

    I have to call this mystery bullet the magic bullet i guess because it wasnt in my collection and yes i accounted for all my ammo even the new boxes i had....

    So for those of you who want to call people who have ND idiots and that they shouldnt own a firearm i want to hear you logicly explain to me and everyone else how a gun magicly produces another bullet when all your ammo is accounted for.

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    Jarhead, you are not alone. Several years ago, I had a 1911 that I was replacing the stocks with pachmyers. I cleared the gun, slide locked open, mag out. one of my sons on each side of me. I removed the old stocks and handed them to my son on the right. the son on the left gave me the new stocks which I installed. as this was going directly into my holster on my hip, I inserted the magazine, dropped the slide and it slam fired THREE times before jamming. I call this a malfunction, but it was a ND never the less. The problem was caused by a bit of foriegn material that held the firing pin al the way forward. It turned out to be a piece of the wire brush that I had used to do some scrubbing. My fault all the way. I have carried since 1965. This was the first and only one to date.



    OK everyone, own up you know it can and does happen.

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    The only ND I ever had, I was 3. Yes, THREE years old. So I don't know if that counts.

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    gogodawgs wrote:
    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    I have never had an accidental or negligent discharge. I have owned guns since I was 15 and am now 41. Of course I didn't scream foul, because I think it can happen.
    Look at my words, I believe it can happen, even to me....I don't look forward to it when it does.
    Live Free or Die!

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    gogodawgs wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    I have never had an accidental or negligent discharge. I have owned guns since I was 15 and am now 41. Of course I didn't scream foul, because I think it can happen.
    Look at my words, I believe it can happen, even to me....I don't look forward to it when it does.
    It wasnt your post i was pointing out gogodawgs it was someone who stuck there foot in there mouth.....

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    jarhead1055 wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    gogodawgs wrote:
    jarhead1055 wrote:
    I love people who scream foul when someone accidently discharges a round out of a gun yet most people on this board have done it at 1 time or another this guy just had bad luck none the less it happens, What are the odds you hit someone below you?
    I have never had an accidental or negligent discharge. I have owned guns since I was 15 and am now 41. Of course I didn't scream foul, because I think it can happen.
    Look at my words, I believe it can happen, even to me....I don't look forward to it when it does.
    It wasnt your post i was pointing out gogodawgs it was someone who stuck there foot in there mouth.....
    I know...I have heard stories and one of the reasons my primary carry weapon is a Sig is the reputation and performance. Lesser firearms have 'issues' from time to time as well as the handler. I know that for years I carried a Bersa and while never having a ND I did not like how it performed on the range.
    Live Free or Die!

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    I have had one ND due to cockiness and casualness. Fortunately I was following at least some of the basic rules such as pointing the gun in safe direction and it was only embarrassing and informative.

    Carrying an XD, which requires the trigger be pulled to field strip, has made me MUCH more aware and conscious of ensuring that a firearm is truly "safe" before touching a trigger. I even had someone at the range question my practice of not only dropping the mag, locking the slide back and doing a visual inspection to ensure that the sidearm is empty, but also to feel inside the chamber with my pinky and checking the loaded chamber indicator with my hand (if so equipped) before saying a pistol is clear. I pointed out that my habit allows me to ensure that the weapon is clear in any condition even low light or if I were to have an injury impairing my sight.

    Overkill? Maybe. But that ND scared the heck out of me and is in the back of my mind keeping me mindful of all the rules and reminding me to never again be so casual with any firearm no matter where I am.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I have had one near-possible-ND, where I dropped a 22 revolver from about 8 feet up when I was carelessly getting it off a shelf; my newborn son was in the room. When the shock wore off, I decided to be a little more careful in the future, to put it mildly.
    As for the U-dist dude, yes we all make mistakes, but check your freikin gun before you mess with it.

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    Maybe we should create a new category called SD - Stupid Discharge. There is a difference between picking a loadedgun up and pulling the trigger by failing to keep your finger off the trigger and picking the gun up and delibertly pulling the trigger without checking to see if it is empty. One night I pointed my 30-30 at the TV and decided to shoot the bad guy on it. I had the hammer back and my finger on the trigger when something reminded me of the gun safety rules. I eased back off and checked to find that I has placed a round in the chamber and started shaking. IfI had pulled the trigger it would not have been due to neglience but rather stupidity. I think that is what most people are trying to say about the OP rather than they are perfect.

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Jarhead, you are not alone. Several years ago, I had a 1911 that I was replacing the stocks with pachmyers. I cleared the gun, slide locked open, mag out. one of my sons on each side of me. I removed the old stocks and handed them to my son on the right. the son on the left gave me the new stocks which I installed. as this was going directly into my holster on my hip, I inserted the magazine, dropped the slide and it slam fired THREE times before jamming. I call this a malfunction, but it was a ND never the less. The problem was caused by a bit of foriegn material that held the firing pin al the way forward. It turned out to be a piece of the wire brush that I had used to do some scrubbing. My fault all the way. I have carried since 1965. This was the first and only one to date.



    OK everyone, own up you know it can and does happen.
    Exactly, of course it can happen.

    But as Trigger Dr. points out, its just a mechanical object, and if it DOES happen, you, the human, own it.

    NDs may not be able to be 100% mitigatable, but NDs that result in human injury CAN be by being completely aware of your backstop at all times handling a firearm.


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    I think that another important thing that needs to be addressed is the fact that having a ND can be a big lesson in itself....one I'll never forget....

    My mistake was thinking that my Colt single action was unloaded.....it had been sitting around the house for about 4 months & we had some friends coming over with kids...time to lock up the gun....I had spent considerable money having the gun worked on by a world class speed shooter & the action was like butter..smooth & with only 1.25 pounds of trigger pull.

    I was "working the action", cocking hammer, holding hammer & releasing trigger, easing hammer down with my thumb..about the 4th or 5th time I did this, my thumb slipped off the hammer & the gun discharged..bullet entered my upper calf, traveled through my calf & exited between my calf & Achilles tendon...remember, I said that I had thought my gun was unloaded?...I'd basically just proceeded to shoot myself with an unloaded weapon

    to this day, all I've got to do is to look at my leg to see a very important reminder that negligence/stupidity does happen. fortunately, it was pointed in a safe direction & ultimately ended up being a minor injury, but a eye-opener, nonetheless: Went shooting about 3 weeks after the incident & I swear, I must have checked & re-checked the gun 20 times, almost being obsessive about it, not wanting to have another ND.

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