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Thread: VT/AK style law

  1. #1
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    Gentlemen,

    I am active in Nevada firearms legislative action. I believe in VT/AK style law and I believe that should be our ultimate goal everywhere.

    Obviously, the anti-gun crowd doesn't like it, but relatively infrequently do they attack VT/AK style law.

    Troubling, however, is the fact that some otherwise pro-gun folks have opined that "CCW permits are a good thing; at least we know they have passed a background check and attended a state-required training class."

    Obviously, I disagree. The U. S. and Nevada Constitutions are not unlike the Vermont Constitution concerning the right to bear arms. In Nevada, it is perfectly legal to openly carry. But it is a Class C felony to carry concealed without a valid permit. "Funny," isn't it, that a person may lawfully carry openly but if your shirt tail or jacket covers the firearm, you are committing a Class C felony!

    I also opine that IF there were "issues" in VT or AK, the predominantly anti-gun media would be reporting daily (if not more frequently!)

    So, my question(s):

    Have there been any significant issues/problems with "common folks" carrying firearms?

    What is the attitude of law enforcement and legislators?

    Can you cite/provide any statistics, factual articles, etc?

    I certainly would appreciate your help, thoughts/comments.

    For my email, phone, etc, simply send private message here!

  2. #2
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    Well as a OC/CCW'er in the State of Vermont, The overall POV here is to let live as far as the gun laws are concerned. We are able to go anywhere with both methods of carry. Although the Property owner does have the right to ask you to leave. Which in my experience isn't very often. The University Mall in So Burlington does not want you to open carry in there, but don't have to many problems with concealed. There POV is that if they see you with it OC/CCW they will ask you to leave the mall. That could be argued but it isn't worth the effort since the law is pretty clear about it. The building codes are also pretty clear about the private property laws, In that a business owner should have every ingress/egress marked with a no firearms allowed sign, But they are not required to do so.

    As for the LEO community, They fully understand Chptr 1, Art 16 VSA and they don't cause any problems for the most part. Except for the City of Rutland, Their PD does have a bad record of harassing and detaining OC/CCW'ers, especially if you are near any city parks. The Diamond Run Mall in Rutland is also a No Firearms Allowed/Banned area. They do have a Sheriffs annex in the mall, so the response time is very quick. Due to alot of gang and drug activity in the mall they have enforced the Private Property statute there.

    Most of the Vermont population if open to the firearms laws here, But we do have problems with the "Flatlanders" A term we use to describe out of staters that have moved to Vermont and want/try to impose there own states restrictive firearms laws here. It doesn't go anywhere since the laws are enforced by the Fish and Wildlife Dept. Plus we have some very strong progun activist groups here, such as H.A.T and the Gunowmers of Vermont action commitee. There are other groups as well but there names escape me at this time.

    My personal experience with OC/CCW here in Vermont has been very positive, only once did i have a bad LEO encounter, This LEO was a flatlander who transferred from NJ to the VSP. He didn't understand our Firearms laws, i educated him on his mistake about the laws. This trooper tried to get with DC, But he couldn't since i was being loud/rude or obnoxious with him. When I showed him my Cert Firearms Instror license for the state. He changed his attitude and listened to me explain the Law. It ended well after that. You don't have to disclose that you are carrying OC/CCW to any PD/SO/VSP, But it is common courtesy to do so. You can carry any handgun loaded in your vehicle, But all Longguns cannot be loaded. The term "loaded" is defined as No ammunition in the magazine or chamber, Or if using a detachable magazine. Then it can't be in the mag well. A muzzle loader is termed loaded if it has a cap on the nipple, But can have a charge in the breech. Suppressors are illegal in Vermont, But Class 3 is open to purchase as long as you follow Federal laws pertaining to them.

    There are Fish and Game clubs in each county and there are some private clubs too. with the long standing tradition of hunting, Trapping and fishing in this state no matter where you go, there is always a Gun shop or outdoors supply store near you.

    Hope this helps you.

  3. #3
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    Many thanks. Appreciate the reply.

    Sounds like there simply may not be any statistics, etc, significantly for or against.

    I have what I believe to be a good, sound argument in favor of VT/AK style law.

    However, I wantto assemble asmany facts as possible. For example, some lobbyists and legislators will no doubt argue that the CCW permit system is the way to go; they'll say, "At least we know a permittee has been background checked and has attended the required CCW class."

    I have a reasonable and sound argument for the above, but am having difficulty finding facts and statistics to support it.

    I do have John Lott's book; perhaps that will provide enough.

  4. #4
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    What you could do is write to statistics Vermont asking for the last five years of murders, homicides and violence in Vermont. The FBI would have those stats. You can get that through an FOIA request. Or contact the VSP here in Vermont. That would be a place to start. For your info though i think Vermont has had less then 15 murders per year for the last 5 or 6 years or more.

  5. #5
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    Roger that. Many thanks.

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