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Thread: Professional police interaction

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

    In keeping with NC law, I informed him I was a permit holder and had a loaded firearm on my right hip ... he could NOT see it from where he was. He asked me to repeat where it was, and then said "OK".

    Took my license and registration back to his car and wrote the ticket (I was doing 76 in a 60 zone) as an infraction (75) vice a misdemeanor (16+ over). When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional. Doing his job, and not letting my armed status interfere.

    Yes, I had my voice recorder going, but I erased the file; no need for it.

    cross-posted to NCforum
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    I thought I was going to get pulled several times this week. Apparently the little bit of good karma that I have collected over the years is now near depletion.

    I'm glad that the officer didn't allow his own personal prejudices make for unprofessional interaction with you. That is all you can really ask for I suppose??

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

    If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.
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    Tess wrote:
    Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

    In keeping with NC law, I informed him I was a permit holder and had a loaded firearm on my right hip ... he could NOT see it from where he was. He asked me to repeat where it was, and then said "OK".

    Took my license and registration back to his car and wrote the ticket (I was doing 76 in a 60 zone) as an infraction (75) vice a misdemeanor (16+ over). When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional. Doing his job, and not letting my armed status interfere.

    Yes, I had my voice recorder going, but I erased the file; no need for it.

    cross-posted to NCforum
    Good interaction. The bumper stickers might be a tip off, but if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate (if you do have a permit). Close to the vehicle approach and standing behind the frame is technically what every officer is trained to do. However, many officers are much more relaxed with that approach given the time of day and type of person they believe they are approaching, however, that's not the intention.
    Good idea to send in positive feedback. In this business, it's good to hear anything positive back from citizens (every officer will almost inevitably receive complaints at some point). Those letters most likely will go in his file for the rest of his career as well, and will be considered when he is looking for a promotion. Sorry to hear you got the summons.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

    If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.
    I e-mailed the chief. But I debated it.

    I'm not one to jump all over officers -- except the ones who blatantly set themselves above others.

    But this officer was professional. Is that worthy of commendation? Frankly, it's what I expect.

    This was my first interaction with NC police (Durham PD), and I really wasn't sure what to expect.

    I have no intention of going back to NC to fight the ticket, so I'll pay it and thus plead guilty. I was. So it's not a question of getting out of a ticket. In my mind, the two concepts are not related.


    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    ... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate
    Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

    If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?

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    My viewpoint on this; yes, we should be able to expect such professionalism (and caution) from police officers. BUT, as of right now, it IS a good idea to REINFORCE it when it does happen, and complain when it doesn't. To get the police to do things we the citizens want them to do requires both the carrot and the stick. Perhaps in 10 years, such police behavior will be common and thus not notable...
    Tess wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

    If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.
    I e-mailed the chief. But I debated it.

    I'm not one to jump all over officers -- except the ones who blatantly set themselves above others.

    But this officer was professional. Is that worthy of commendation? Frankly, it's what I expect.

    This was my first interaction with NC police (Durham PD), and I really wasn't sure what to expect.

    I have no intention of going back to NC to fight the ticket, so I'll pay it and thus plead guilty. I was. So it's not a question of getting out of a ticket. In my mind, the two concepts are not related.


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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    ChinChin wrote:
    May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

    If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.
    I did that when I got pulled over... see: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=15162



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    I've never let the officer know I was armed when I've had my dealings with them
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    catass wrote:
    I've never let the officer know I was armed when I've had my dealings with them
    Your choice.

    North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    W.E.G. wrote:
    ... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate
    Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

    If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
    No, I apologize, I saw this thread moved to the Virginia forum, with VCDL stickers, so I thought the stop occurred by a VA officer. No, I am not aware of any other states that will reveal the owner has a valid conceal permit if ran by a VA officer besides VA. I am uncertain if an officer from another state runs a VA tag (owner has a permit) if that information would come up. Interesting, I will look into it, however, I am doubtful that it would.

    When a VA officer runs an out-of-state tag, it comes back with that states return (owners information) and that's states specific format. It's interesting to see the detailed information some states provide vs the lack of information other states provide.

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    Tess wrote:
    Your choice.

    North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
    and I, sir, am a responsible gun owner :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    catass wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    Your choice.

    North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
    and I, sir, am a responsible gun owner :-)
    I am too, and so far the must inform law in NC has not caused me any issues. I have had little interaction with law enforcement while carrying, but properly and professionally informing them has always been a positive. I can see why some folks would rather we not be required to inform, but the law is what it is.

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    W.E.G. wrote:
    Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

    If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
    Nope.

    Only in Virginia.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    W.E.G. wrote:
    ... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate
    Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

    If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
    Tess, did you know about this?

    Raleigh, NC police system stores records of your license plates and location
    Would it bother you if there was a record of where you were at all times, stored in a public database? That's the concern that citizens in Raleigh, North Carolina have expressed.

    Raleigh area police have just adopted a new Automated License Plate Reader system that they say will make citizens in the region more secure. The system consists of four cameras mounted to police cruisers that automatically read license plates of nearby cars (the cost to outfit each cruiser can cost between $18,000 to $20,000). The results are sent back to the police headquarters, where they are scanned for matches in the national criminal database.

    The police say the system is working great. It has already help recover several stolen vehicles and locate at least one missing person. Describes Officer John Maultsby, "With this technology, it can read hundreds of plates in a couple of seconds if there are that many plates for it to see."

    The system, however, is stirring up controversy. Some take issue with the fact that your license plate information and location is stored both in the police cruiser and at the police headquarters, regardless of if you committed a crime. The police have not made it clear how long this information is stored.

    Such information could be dangerous if it was stolen. It could reveal many embarrassing, but perfectly legal behaviors. Given that government databases are routinely compromised by hackers, many worry about the possibility of privacy risks to law-abiding citizens.
    Such a system would make it very easy to cross-reference sensitive firearms-related data, such as permits.

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    Now I can finally feel "secure" when passing through Raleigh. Are they also passing out cups of Kool-Aid to go along with that added security? If so, I'll take two.



    What a crock!

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    When I was in AZ last summer, they had traffic cams that were also "speed traps". If you were caught speeding, the PD would send you a ticket with a picture of the driver and the license plate.

    I hope that's not what's coming to NC.

    --edit--link added

    http://www.abc15.com/content/traffic...speedcams.aspx

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    Regular Member thnycav's Avatar
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    Tess wrote:
    Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

    When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional.

    cross-posted to NCforum
    The reason he approached yourcar that way is that he was following his training. I'm willing to bet he does that same thing every car he stops. Think about it you never know who you are dealing with. Traffic stops and domestic disputes are some of the most dangerous situations that Police handle. I doubt that he did so because of your sticker.

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    Very often they will also lay their right hand on the trunk lid or quarter panel to leave a print, in case things go badly wrong, or the car leaves on them. The cop's print ties the vehicle to the scene.

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    Smith and Dan Wesson wrote:
    Very often they will also lay their right hand on the trunk lid or quarter panel to leave a print, in case things go badly wrong, or the car leaves on them. The cop's print ties the vehicle to the scene.
    Also he can feel any sudden abrupt movements before he might see it.

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    Smith and Dan Wesson wrote:
    Very often they will also lay their right hand on the trunk lid or quarter panel to leave a print, in case things go badly wrong, or the car leaves on them.
    That explains how the powdered sugar got on my car. Always wondered where that came from. Thanks.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Citizen wrote:
    That explains how the powdered sugar got on my car.
    That's funny, right there.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    I don't mind the powdered sugar so much, but the custard is hard to clean on a hot day.

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    catass wrote:
    Tess wrote:
    Your choice.

    North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
    and I, sir, am a responsible gun owner :-)
    Just to be clear, are you advocating not informing in a must-inform situation? Seems to me that this is a fairly irresponsible act. In NC, few of us ever OC on the hip in the car, it's a little too touch and go as to whether or not it can be considered concealing. If you think you may be concealing and choose to not inform when you legally must, you are not being responsible.

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    ChinChin wrote:
    May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

    If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

    Not a sermon, just a thought.
    I concur , a letter commending the officer would probably go a long way for all of us developing abetter rapport with local law enforcement. This officer seemingly did things by the book and thats all we can ask. Stinks you got a ticket but seems like everything went professionally.

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