• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Professional police interaction

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

In keeping with NC law, I informed him I was a permit holder and had a loaded firearm on my right hip ... he could NOT see it from where he was. He asked me to repeat where it was, and then said "OK".

Took my license and registration back to his car and wrote the ticket (I was doing 76 in a 60 zone) as an infraction (75) vice a misdemeanor (16+ over). When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional. Doing his job, and not letting my armed status interfere.

Yes, I had my voice recorder going, but I erased the file; no need for it.

cross-posted to NCforum
 

richarcm

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,182
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

I thought I was going to get pulled several times this week. Apparently the little bit of good karma that I have collected over the years is now near depletion.

I'm glad that the officer didn't allow his own personal prejudices make for unprofessional interaction with you. That is all you can really ask for I suppose??
 

ChinChin

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2007
Messages
683
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
imported post

May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

Not a sermon, just a thought.
 

NovaCop

New member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
471
Location
, ,
imported post

Tess wrote:
Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

In keeping with NC law, I informed him I was a permit holder and had a loaded firearm on my right hip ... he could NOT see it from where he was. He asked me to repeat where it was, and then said "OK".

Took my license and registration back to his car and wrote the ticket (I was doing 76 in a 60 zone) as an infraction (75) vice a misdemeanor (16+ over). When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional. Doing his job, and not letting my armed status interfere.

Yes, I had my voice recorder going, but I erased the file; no need for it.

cross-posted to NCforum
Good interaction. The bumper stickers might be a tip off, but if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate (if you do have a permit). Close to the vehicle approach and standing behind the frame is technically what every officer is trained to do. However, many officers are much more relaxed with that approach given the time of day and type of person they believe they are approaching, however, that's not the intention.
Good idea to send in positive feedback. In this business, it's good to hear anything positive back from citizens (every officer will almost inevitably receive complaints at some point). Those letters most likely will go in his file for the rest of his career as well, and will be considered when he is looking for a promotion. Sorry to hear you got the summons.
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

ChinChin wrote:
May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

Not a sermon, just a thought.
I e-mailed the chief. But I debated it.

I'm not one to jump all over officers -- except the ones who blatantly set themselves above others.

But this officer was professional. Is that worthy of commendation? Frankly, it's what I expect.

This was my first interaction with NC police (Durham PD), and I really wasn't sure what to expect.

I have no intention of going back to NC to fight the ticket, so I'll pay it and thus plead guilty. I was. So it's not a question of getting out of a ticket. In my mind, the two concepts are not related.
 

W.E.G.

Newbie
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
503
Location
all over VA, ,
imported post

... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate

Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
 

johnfenter

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
209
Location
, ,
imported post

My viewpoint on this; yes, we should be able to expect such professionalism (and caution) from police officers. BUT, as of right now, it IS a good idea to REINFORCE it when it does happen, and complain when it doesn't. To get the police to do things we the citizens want them to do requires both the carrot and the stick. Perhaps in 10 years, such police behavior will be common and thus not notable...
Tess wrote:
ChinChin wrote:
May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

Not a sermon, just a thought.
I e-mailed the chief. But I debated it.

I'm not one to jump all over officers -- except the ones who blatantly set themselves above others.

But this officer was professional. Is that worthy of commendation? Frankly, it's what I expect.

This was my first interaction with NC police (Durham PD), and I really wasn't sure what to expect.

I have no intention of going back to NC to fight the ticket, so I'll pay it and thus plead guilty. I was. So it's not a question of getting out of a ticket. In my mind, the two concepts are not related.
 

ed

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
4,841
Location
Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA
imported post

ChinChin wrote:
May I suggest (if you are so inclined) to send an email or letter to Officer Chamber's department or CO and commend his professionalism and his respect of a private citizen with a firearm being lawfully carried.

If we're going to be so quick to jump all over LEOs who are perceived to trample rights; it's only appropriate that we be so quick to jump to commend them when they act as we have always said we want them to act. That letter may not get you out of a ticket, but it may reinforce in that officer the next time he encounters a citizen with a lawfully carried firearm to repeat his professional demeanor and continue to respect our community.

Not a sermon, just a thought.
I did that when I got pulled over... see: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=15162



Ed
 

Tess

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
imported post

catass wrote:
I've never let the officer know I was armed when I've had my dealings with them
Your choice.

North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
 

NovaCop

New member
Joined
Dec 6, 2009
Messages
471
Location
, ,
imported post

W.E.G. wrote:
... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate

Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
No, I apologize, I saw this thread moved to the Virginia forum, with VCDL stickers, so I thought the stop occurred by a VA officer. No, I am not aware of any other states that will reveal the owner has a valid conceal permit if ran by a VA officer besides VA. I am uncertain if an officer from another state runs a VA tag (owner has a permit) if that information would come up. Interesting, I will look into it, however, I am doubtful that it would.

When a VA officer runs an out-of-state tag, it comes back with that states return (owners information) and that's states specific format. It's interesting to see the detailed information some states provide vs the lack of information other states provide.
 

FightingGlock19

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
583
Location
, Kentucky, USA
imported post

Tess wrote:
Your choice.

North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
and I, sir, am a responsible gun owner :)
 

Scrub

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
85
Location
Elm City, North Carolina, USA
imported post

catass wrote:
Tess wrote:
Your choice.

North Carolina is a "must inform" state. If I'm going to claim to be a law-abiding gun owner, I choose to obey the law. (Or, as today, take the consequences.)
and I, sir, am a responsible gun owner :)
I am too, and so far the must inform law in NC has not caused me any issues. I have had little interaction with law enforcement while carrying, but properly and professionally informing them has always been a positive. I can see why some folks would rather we not be required to inform, but the law is what it is.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

W.E.G. wrote:
Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
Nope.

Only in Virginia.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

W.E.G. wrote:
... if you are the registered owner of the car it would have come up on his computer that you have a valid handgun permit when he ran your VA license plate

Are you sure the Virginia concealed handgun permit database is online for other states?

If I get pulled-over in Massachusetts, does the cop know I have a Virginia CHP?
Tess, did you know about this?

Raleigh, NC police system stores records of your license plates and location
Would it bother you if there was a record of where you were at all times, stored in a public database? That's the concern that citizens in Raleigh, North Carolina have expressed.

Raleigh area police have just adopted a new Automated License Plate Reader system that they say will make citizens in the region more secure. The system consists of four cameras mounted to police cruisers that automatically read license plates of nearby cars (the cost to outfit each cruiser can cost between $18,000 to $20,000). The results are sent back to the police headquarters, where they are scanned for matches in the national criminal database.

The police say the system is working great. It has already help recover several stolen vehicles and locate at least one missing person. Describes Officer John Maultsby, "With this technology, it can read hundreds of plates in a couple of seconds if there are that many plates for it to see."

The system, however, is stirring up controversy. Some take issue with the fact that your license plate information and location is stored both in the police cruiser and at the police headquarters, regardless of if you committed a crime. The police have not made it clear how long this information is stored.

Such information could be dangerous if it was stolen. It could reveal many embarrassing, but perfectly legal behaviors. Given that government databases are routinely compromised by hackers, many worry about the possibility of privacy risks to law-abiding citizens.
Such a system would make it very easy to cross-reference sensitive firearms-related data, such as permits.
 

Resto Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
223
Location
right here
imported post

Now I can finally feel "secure" when passing through Raleigh. Are they also passing out cups of Kool-Aid to go along with that added security? If so, I'll take two.



What a crock!
 

thnycav

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
305
Location
Windsor VA, ,
imported post

Tess wrote:
Got stopped for speeding today on I40E in Durham. Office BE Chambers apparently heeded my bumper stickers (Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, Virginia Citizens Defense League and Guns Save Lives), because he walked to my Jeep Liberty very very very close to the vehicle, and stopped behind the drivers window, so close I couldn't even see his nametag, putting only his head forward.

When he re-approached the car, he used the same very-close-to-the-vehicle approach technique, but he was pleasant and professional.

cross-posted to NCforum
The reason he approached yourcar that way is that he was following his training. I'm willing to bet he does that same thing every car he stops. Think about it you never know who you are dealing with. Traffic stops and domestic disputes are some of the most dangerous situations that Police handle. I doubt that he did so because of your sticker.
 

Resto Guy

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
223
Location
right here
imported post

Very often they will also lay their right hand on the trunk lid or quarter panel to leave a print, in case things go badly wrong, or the car leaves on them. The cop's print ties the vehicle to the scene.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

Smith and Dan Wesson wrote:
Very often they will also lay their right hand on the trunk lid or quarter panel to leave a print, in case things go badly wrong, or the car leaves on them. The cop's print ties the vehicle to the scene.
Also he can feel any sudden abrupt movements before he might see it.

Yata hey
 
Top