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Thread: WORKING TO RESTORE FIREARMS RIGHTS

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    WORKING TO RESTORE FIREARMS RIGHTS

    First of all, let me make it clear to you that I am not an attorney. I am not qualified or legally entitled to give legal advice. This is not a solicitation for money.

    What I am is a felon who has lost his firearm rights. I am engaged in a struggle with the BATF to get them restored. The State of Michigan has restored my firearm rights, but I am being blocked from Federal restoration through arbitrary and capricious interpretation of Federal law by the BATF. There are tens of thousands of people who are in the same situation.



    What is our objective? Our mission is to contact those others that we may join in concerted action to affect the restoration of our firearms rights.



    I would like to think that our society has progressed past the barbaric practices of cutting off hands and branding criminals, but the sad truth is that in today’s information age, the marks are there, they just don’t show because they’re hidden in a data base.



    Know that this will not be an easy journey. There probably quite a few of you flying under the radar and I know how difficult it is to come out as I hid for many years. If want to stay undercover, I completely understand.



    There is small core group of us working to get things started. We have done extensive research and are exploring what course of action to pursue. If you have a desire, we will share this research with you and ask that you join with us.

    Email to ASKUNCLEFUZZY@AOL.COM




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    Although not branded with the overused term felon, I am in full support of what you are doing, and why.

    Personally, I feel that the libs have latched on to the term felon, and have been successfully using it as a form of back door gun control



    Best of luck.

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    Does anyone else feel like thy are being baited? I am sure the antis would love to be able to summarize the OC community as supportive of the right of a felon to own guns.
    SS1911, don't you think you should know more about what the OP is proposing before you throw your unqualified support behind him?

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    JamesIan wrote:
    Does anyone else feel like thy are being baited? I am sure the antis would love to be able to summarize the OC community as supportive of the right of a felon to own guns.
    SS1911, don't you think you should know more about what the OP is proposing before you throw your unqualified support behind him?
    It does seem rather off... Also as we have not been told what sort of felony the OP committed I am not in any mood to support this period.

    Bad check maybe... violent never gonna happen!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    autosurgeon wrote:
    Bad check maybe... violent never gonna happen!
    Time served is time served.

    I don't think felons should lose their right to vote.

    The second amendment is singled out as the only right in the bill of rights that one loses for committing a felony.

    Why don't we take away their right to a speedy trial, or their right against cruel and unusual punishment? These rights are in the same category as the right to keep & bear, and held with the same regard.

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    @AOL.COM


    this part made me chuckle.

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    I personally feel pretty strongly about felons not being able to own firearms, I have known quite a few felons in my time; I still have quite a few friends who are "rehabilitated"

    they are currently commuting just as many crimes as they did before they went to prison for whatever they did. they are just better at not being caught.

    the way i see it, if you prove to society that you can commit a felony, when you get out, I'll hang out, hug out, hire, work with, whatever, but as for a firearm, you already proved your willingness to commit a crime, I'd prefer not to make your repeat offense any deadlier, thanks.

    this includes drunk driving felonies.

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    If someone is too dangerous to own/use a firearm then they should not be out on the streets. As far as I'm concerned, he paid his debt to society. He shouldn't be paying his debt forever. Why don't we just make felons wear a Scarlet F while were at it.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
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    good point, I'm all for manditory life sentances on all felons. I like the way you think.

    I grew up with a kid, in and out of county jail from the time he was 18 to 20 or so, at 20 he commited his first real violent crime, broke into some families house while they were asleep, the father woke up to go the bathroom while he was in the house, he beat him within inches of his life, he did 3 of 15 for this. he got out, was out for a while, commited armed robbery and attempted murder, beat the guy within inches of his life again.

    this guy is now on parole at 29. I think we should work to restore his firearm rights because of time served, he's better right? wrong.

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    And yet there are others that did something stupid when they were 20 and yet now, after 25 years of staying out of trouble (by living right not avoiding capture) they are still labeled a felon and can't own a gun for defense.

    I know a guy like this. His crime was a felony even though it was a victimless crime.

    Non-violent.

    Do you feel the same for him?

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    dougwg wrote:
    And yet there are others that did something stupid when they were 20 and yet now, after 25 years of staying out of trouble (by living right not avoiding capture) they are still labeled a felon and can't own a gun for defense.

    I know a guy like this.* His crime was a felony even though it was a victimless crime.

    Non-violent.

    Do you feel the same for him?
    I'd have to know the circumstances I guess. Like everything, there are exceptions to the rule, however.

    I don't know of any victim-less felonies. Cocaine trafficking and drug convictions I consider just as violent as killing someone, you're destroying peoples lives just the same.

    Pot however, I'd put that in a grey area for my own morals, if it was like an ounce of weed and they charged the guy with a felony, maybe, if it was large quantities, I would have to lean towards no guns.

    Drunk Driving convictions, as per my last post, I feel is just as much a violent crime as forcing someone to play Russian roulette, maybe you haven't killed anyone yet, but you will, just keep spinning the barrel.

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    i agree with ziggy (it pains me to say that! lol)

    If a felon has served their time and is considered reformed enough to rejoin society, then they should do so with all of the bill of rights. If they are considered too dangerous to have a gun, then they should be too dangerous to be let out of prison.

    This is just another way for the government to control it's people.

    Look at the college kids this past winter who were charged with a felony for throwing snowballs. Honestly, should a person have to give up their rtkba for an entire lifetime because of a snowball they tossed when they were a kid?

    I am not advocating that violent murderers regain the rtkba. These people should never be let out of prison (alive)

    The bar one has to reach to be a felon has been lowered over the past 100 years. Simple possession of an object, among other things, should not be a felony.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    Drug possession (say, if you are growing a single plant of cannabis in your basement).
    Consensual sex - sometimes called "Statutory Rape."
    Prostitution/Solicitation
    Running a gambling house
    Consensual Sodomy (Both Oral and Anal intercourse are illegal in MI)
    Euthanasia (mercy killing of a terminally ill person - with consent)

    I'm sure there are more.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    Drug possession (say, if you are growing a single plant of cannabis in your basement).
    Consensual sex - sometimes called "Statutory Rape."
    Prostitution/Solicitation
    Running a gambling house
    Consensual Sodomy (Both Oral and Anal intercourse are illegal in MI)
    Euthanasia (mercy killing of a terminally ill person - with consent)

    I'm sure there are more.
    How about this pertinent one:

    Carrying a concealed weapon


    ETA: Kyle, are you familiar with the legal maxim of corpus delicti? If there is no injured party, how can there be a crime?

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    I generally agree with your list, except for this one.Social groups (cities, states, nations)need law-makers, law-enforcers,courts, infrastructure (roads, water, sewage), military defense, etc. Those are paid for with taxes on the members of the social group. If some members are evading taxes, that isharming those who don't evade.

    I don't evade taxes andto the extent I have to chip in more than my true fair sharedue to those who evade taxes and keep more than their true fair share, I am a victim. If a tax evaderunlawfullykeeps an extra $100 in his pocket, and I have to pay an extra $100 to make up for that, he might as well have stolenit directly out of my pocket. Tax evasion is, simply,a form of larceny.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    I generally agree with your list, except for this one.Social groups (cities, states, nations)need law-makers, law-enforcers,courts, infrastructure (roads, water, sewage), military defense, etc. Those are paid for with taxes on the members of the social group. If some members are evading taxes, that isharming those who don't evade.

    I don't evade taxes andto the extent I have to chip in more than my true fair sharedue to those who evade taxes and keep more than their true fair share, I am a victim. If a tax evaderunlawfullykeeps an extra $100 in his pocket, and I have to pay an extra $100 to make up for that, he might as well have stolenit directly out of my pocket. Tax evasion is, simply,a form of larceny.
    If a tax evaderunlawfullykeeps an extra $100 in his pocket, you will not have to pay $100. With the population today, you'll maybe have to pay $.00000033333. Is that going to break you? If it is, I'll pay your share.Besides if someone is a tax evader, he/she just might be a cabinet member for Obama.

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    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    The first problem is that there are too many crimes that are considered felonies. A felony used to be a crime that was punishable by death. For instance in Virginia in the late 1700's it was a felony crime the third time a Quaker was caught in the state and was punishable by death. I would bet money that 99% of people in the United States have committed a felony at least once in their life and had not known it. This is ridiculous.

    I have a friend who has a felony because he had an unloaded pistol in plain view on the floor of his van when he was pulled over. He ASSUMED that since it could be seen from outside of the vehicle it wasn't considered concealed. Yeah he did some jail time and pleaded guilty once the prosecutor told him they would send him to prison. This is nuts. I carry a LOADED gun in my car everyday. The difference between us is that I gave some money to the State so I could get a little blue card with my picture on it. It's too bad that he didn't give some money to the State first in order to exercise his rights, er I mean privileges.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    Drug possession (say, if you are growing a single plant of cannabis in your basement).
    Consensual sex - sometimes called "Statutory Rape."
    Prostitution/Solicitation
    Running a gambling house
    Consensual Sodomy (Both Oral and Anal intercourse are illegal in MI)
    Euthanasia (mercy killing of a terminally ill person - with consent)

    I'm sure there are more.
    Nice Zig!

    I support Felons who served their time, the right to self defense! you don't lose your right to vote! the 2nd is just as important, and protected.

    That is not to say that I am just going to support the first person who comes along with out hearing the story, and seeing the evidence.
    .:celebrate

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    Leader wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    I generally agree with your list, except for this one.Social groups (cities, states, nations)need law-makers, law-enforcers,courts, infrastructure (roads, water, sewage), military defense, etc. Those are paid for with taxes on the members of the social group. If some members are evading taxes, that isharming those who don't evade.

    I don't evade taxes andto the extent I have to chip in more than my true fair sharedue to those who evade taxes and keep more than their true fair share, I am a victim. If a tax evaderunlawfullykeeps an extra $100 in his pocket, and I have to pay an extra $100 to make up for that, he might as well have stolenit directly out of my pocket. Tax evasion is, simply,a form of larceny.
    If a tax evaderunlawfullykeeps an extra $100 in his pocket, you will not have to pay $100. With the population today, you'll maybe have to pay $.00000033333. Is that going to break you? If it is, I'll pay your share.Besides if someone is a tax evader, he/she just might be a cabinet member for Obama.
    I don't know what the extent of true tax evasion (i.e., both caught and uncaught)is as far as how many are engaged in it and the amount of money unlawfully withheld. My figures were hypothetical meant to make a point, and my tax bill may be more or less than $100 greaterthan it should be for every $100 withheld by a tax evader. It all depends onhow many tax evaders there really are and how much money is really being unlawfully withheld.

    A simple illustration: your "society" is composed of 10 individuals, including yourself, and your total operating cost for the society is $1,000. Let's say, ifeverything was properly reported and calculated,two individuals (let's call them "A" class)would owe $200 each, two (let's call them "B" class)would owe $150 each, and you are one of the remaining 6 (let's call them"C" class)whowould owe $50 each. Through intentional mis-reporting or hiding of assets, the "A's"make themselves appear to owe $50 each andone of the "B's"and one of the "C's"appear to owe nothing at all, while the restof you, through the fraud you are not aware of, appear to beresponsible for the balance of$900. That is allocated somewhat proportionately as $300 to the honest "B" and $120 each to the 5 honest "C's", of which you are one.

    Congratulations. Instead of paying the $50 you truly and fairly owe, you pay $120 due to only 20% of people who partially evade and only 20% who fully evade, in this illustration.

    In reality, the numbers of partial and full evaders may be more or less, and the extra you as an honest taxpayer pay due to their larceny may be more or less, but let us not attempt to minimize the offense tax evaders, large or small, perpetrate. They are thieves.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    I'm sure we're all guilty of tax evasion, in some form. Ever sell anything to anyone that you didn't originally pay for? Did you claim that as income on your taxes?

    Then there's the case in WI where a semi-automatic gun MALFUNCTIONED and the ATF slapped the guy with unlawful possession of a machine gun. He's currently in prison. GOA has been fighting the case. Is he a VIOLENT felon?

    Another dumb one is the DV law. I knew a guy who was CONVICTED of DV, not because he yelled at her, not because he hit her, not because he threw anything, but because he turned the water off to the house. The law in the state I was in included "intimidation" as a reason to convict on a DV charge. She said she felt "intimidated" and he lost his gun rights for life.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    I'm sure we're all guilty of tax evasion, in some form.
    Tax evasion is the crime of intentionally not paying taxes you know that you owe. Unintendedmistakes with taxes, through incomplete knowledge of the tax code or other error,is not tax evasion and is not a crime. They arecorrected rightfully so with monetary penalties and interest, but they are notcrimes.

    Folks who make mistakes through an incomplete knowledge of the tax code are responsible for their error, but are not criminals.

    Tax evaders are criminals. They are thieves.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I personally feel pretty strongly about felons not being able to own firearms, I have known quite a few felons in my time; I still have quite a few friends who are "rehabilitated"

    they are currently commuting just as many crimes as they did before they went to prison
    for whatever they did. they are just better at not being caught.

    the way i see it, if you prove to society that you can commit a felony, when you get out, I'll hang out, hug out, hire, work with, whatever, but as for a firearm, you already proved your willingness to commit a crime, I'd prefer not to make your repeat offense any deadlier, thanks.

    this includes drunk driving felonies.
    If you know these "friends" are still committing crimes, I sure hope you are turning them in.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I don't know of any victim-less felonies.
    Tax Evasion.
    Drug possession (say, if you are growing a single plant of cannabis in your basement).
    Consensual sex - sometimes called "Statutory Rape."
    Prostitution/Solicitation
    Running a gambling house
    Consensual Sodomy (Both Oral and Anal intercourse are illegal in MI)
    Euthanasia (mercy killing of a terminally ill person - with consent)

    I'm sure there are more.
    Also running moonshine. That happened to Bo and Luke Duke. They had to carry compound bow's and dynamite tipped arrows.

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    I wouldnt mind taxes so much, if they were fair. i.e. "flat taxes". And if an item were only taxed once, and if I could choose to have my personal taxes not go to fund things I am morally opposed to, and if I got my moneys worth out of my country, i.e. quality roads, schools, leadership, etc. And there were no "sin taxes", (seperation f church and state plz). Oh, maybe if the IRS wasnt threatening me to get their money, what do we call non govenment employees who do this? Ih thats right, we call them felons.

  25. #25
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    wolverine1856 wrote:
    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    I personally feel pretty strongly about felons not being able to own firearms, I have known quite a few felons in my time; I still have quite a few friends who are "rehabilitated"

    they are currently commuting just as many crimes as they did before they went to prison
    for whatever they did. they are just better at not being caught.

    this includes drunk driving felonies.
    If you know these "friends" are still committing crimes, I sure hope you are turning them in.*
    eh, while we do live in a "tattle tale" society, i am not one to help our criminal government by participating in our "hitler youth" snitch programs.

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