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Thread: Every bullet hits something

  1. #1
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    Read this in the Seattle Times this morning. be sure of the backstop before firing or at least hit your target with every round.


    Idaho man hit by stray bullet in Yakima dies
    A 20-year-old Idaho man is dead after being hit by a stray bullet in Yakima.

    The Associated Press


    YAKIMA, Wash. —
    A 20-year-old Idaho man is dead after being hit by a stray bullet in Yakima.

    Kyle Flerchinger, of Orofino, was smoking a cigarette last Tuesday night in the back yard of a home where he was staying when a bullet struck him in the back of the neck. Police say the shot was fired from about a block away and was intended for another man.

    Yakima County Coroner Jack Hawkins tells the Yakima Herald-Republic that Flerchinger was taken off life support and died on Friday. Several of his organs were saved for donation.

    The gunfire might have been gang-related. Police said the bullet was intended for a 21-year-old man who was hit at least twice in the back. That victim was taken to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle but is expected to recover.

    No arrests have been made.

    ---

    Information from: Yakima Herald-Republic, http://www.yakimaherald.com

    With all of us being armed and ready, you can't prepare for this scenario.



    kenzmad

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    Regular Member swatspyder's Avatar
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    kenzmad wrote:
    Read this in the Seattle Times this morning. be sure of the backstop before firing or at least hit your target with every round.


    Idaho man hit by stray bullet in Yakima dies
    A 20-year-old Idaho man is dead after being hit by a stray bullet in Yakima.

    The Associated Press


    YAKIMA, Wash. —
    A 20-year-old Idaho man is dead after being hit by a stray bullet in Yakima.

    Kyle Flerchinger, of Orofino, was smoking a cigarette last Tuesday night in the back yard of a home where he was staying when a bullet struck him in the back of the neck. Police say the shot was fired from about a block away and was intended for another man.

    Yakima County Coroner Jack Hawkins tells the Yakima Herald-Republic that Flerchinger was taken off life support and died on Friday. Several of his organs were saved for donation.

    The gunfire might have been gang-related. Police said the bullet was intended for a 21-year-old man who was hit at least twice in the back. That victim was taken to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle but is expected to recover.

    No arrests have been made.

    ---

    Information from: Yakima Herald-Republic, http://www.yakimaherald.com

    With all of us being armed and ready, you can't prepare for this scenario.



    kenzmad
    At the hands of some idiot gang member...

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    I remember hearing on the evening news just after one July 4th back in the mid 90s that 5 people had been killed across the country as the result of bullets falling out of the sky.

    "What goes up must come down."
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


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    What exactly would the math on that be?
    That is, if an object is falling form the sky, it reaches terminal velocity and no more. Bullets, from 40 - 300 grains, with a few exceptions, are not very heavy and at terminal velocity don't seem harmful enough to kill without some very exceptional circumstances.
    I am not advocating shooting into the sky.
    Just wondering how accurate the reports are that falling bullets kill several per Independence Day.

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    A falling object gains velocityat the rate of 32ft per second,per second until it reaches terminal velocity of 128 ft per second.

    ie: the first seccond 32fps, the 2nd second 64 fps, the 3rd second 96 fps, the 4th second 128 fps.

    velocity squared divided by 7000, devided by 64.32 multiplied by weight gives ft pounds energy. So, a 300 grain bullet would ....

    128 x 128 = 16384 / 7000 = 2.3405714 / 64.32 = .0363894 x 300 = 10.91682 ft pounds energy

  6. #6
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Mythbusters did an episode on shooting into the sky. I'll let you folks look it up.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    A falling object gains velocityat the rate of 32ft per second,per second until it reaches terminal velocity of 128 ft per second.

    ie: the first seccond 32fps, the 2nd second 64 fps, the 3rd second 96 fps, the 4th second 128 fps.

    velocity squared divided by 7000, devided by 64.32 multiplied by weight gives ft pounds energy. So, a 300 grain bullet would ....

    128 x 128 = 16384 / 7000 = 2.3405714 / 64.32 = .0363894 x 300 = 10.91682 ft pounds energy
    That translates to roughly 87 MPH if no forward velocity is still present.

    Still having forward velocity changes the equation with considerable lethal potential.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    M1Gunr wrote:
    Mythbusters did an episode on shooting into the sky. I'll let you folks look it up.
    Their results showed a 9mm (weight not given) went2" into the dirt. dirt was very soft and one could push thier finger into the ground 2"

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Bookman wrote:
    I remember hearing on the evening news just after one July 4th back in the mid 90s that 5 people had been killed across the country as the result of bullets falling out of the sky.

    "What goes up must come down."
    It figures! Never trust the MSM>
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Trigger Dr wrote:
    A falling object gains velocityat the rate of 32ft per second,per second until it reaches terminal velocity of 128 ft per second.

    ie: the first seccond 32fps, the 2nd second 64 fps, the 3rd second 96 fps, the 4th second 128 fps.

    velocity squared divided by 7000, devided by 64.32 multiplied by weight gives ft pounds energy. So, a 300 grain bullet would ....

    128 x 128 = 16384 / 7000 = 2.3405714 / 64.32 = .0363894 x 300 = 10.91682 ft pounds energy
    That translates to roughly 87 MPH if no forward velocity is still present.

    Still having forward velocity changes the equation with considerable lethal potential.

    Yata hey
    I believe you're correct. What trigger wrote out is a statistical anomaly as you need to be exactly 90* vertical, not 90.1, not 89.9, but 90.0000. The majority of people are going to shoot between 0 and 90 degrees, but never truly a flat 0.0000 or vertical 90.0000.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    It's all about the angle.
    Live Free or Die!

  13. #13
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    onlurker wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Trigger Dr wrote:
    A falling object gains velocityat the rate of 32ft per second,per second until it reaches terminal velocity of 128 ft per second.

    ie: the first seccond 32fps, the 2nd second 64 fps, the 3rd second 96 fps, the 4th second 128 fps.

    velocity squared divided by 7000, devided by 64.32 multiplied by weight gives ft pounds energy. So, a 300 grain bullet would ....

    128 x 128 = 16384 / 7000 = 2.3405714 / 64.32 = .0363894 x 300 = 10.91682 ft pounds energy
    That translates to roughly 87 MPH if no forward velocity is still present.

    Still having forward velocity changes the equation with considerable lethal potential.

    Yata hey
    I believe you're correct. What trigger wrote out is a statistical anomaly as you need to be exactly 90* vertical, not 90.1, not 89.9, but 90.0000. The majority of people are going to shoot between 0 and 90 degrees, but never truly a flat 0.0000 or vertical 90.0000.
    In my example, that bullet would be about the same diameter and weight as an aluminum arrow and traveling at that speed it could probably be fatal.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

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    amzbrady wrote:
    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    Not bad for 3 yards...:celebrate
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    Currently mapping locations of Shooting Areas as well as Gun Stores - Let me know what is missing!

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    In my example, that bullet would be about the same diameter and weight as an aluminum arrow and traveling at that speed it could probably be fatal.
    It could be fatal, but you're assuming a 100% vertical trajectory, which isn't going to happen unless you set the firing device on a rig specifically calibrated to fire 100% vertical. My point is that no matter how vertical you think you're shooting, it won't be 100% vertical and the projectile will be fatal.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    amzbrady wrote:
    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    Practice is a very important part of our responsibility when we choose to carry.

    One suggestion either you post it or not take your first six shots, 3 to COM and 3 to the head and see where they land as this will give you an idea how your first shots may hit.

    Good target practice !
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    massivedesign wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    Not bad for 3 yards...:celebrate
    And blindfolded, behind my back.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    amzbrady wrote:
    massivedesign wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    Not bad for 3 yards...:celebrate
    And blindfolded, behind my back.
    Next time try it with the blindfold on your eyes, instead of behind your back.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    ak56 wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    massivedesign wrote:
    amzbrady wrote:
    Practice, Practice, Practice... That is the best reason for shooting for mass, and practicing at the range. I know I can use more. The two to the left of the neck, in a real situation could earn some prison time and add to a negative statistic.
    Not bad for 3 yards...:celebrate
    And blindfolded, behind my back.
    Next time try it with the blindfold on your eyes, instead of behind your back.
    OOOH, ow.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    This wasn't the only one.

    Flerchinger isn't the city's first innocent shooting victim. In the past month or so, authorities say, two other men were shot dead by bullets intended for somebody else.
    On Feb. 27, James Kilby, 29, of Union Gap died at a local hospital after he was shot in a car outside a Yakima grocery store. Authorities believe a friend who had called Kilby for a ride home was the intended target.
    A week later, David R. Duarte, 40, of Yakima was shot dead while riding in his nephew's car. Police say Duarte was not involved in gangs but his nephew belongs to one.
    In October, just a few blocks from where Tuesday's shooting happened, another man was shot to death during a Halloween party. Authorities say Jason Baldoz, 34, was not a gang member, but the shooter is.
    Arrests have been made in all three of those cases.
    http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories...ical-condition


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Hammer wrote:
    What exactly would the math on that be?
    That is, if an object is falling form the sky, it reaches terminal velocity and no more. Bullets, from 40 - 300 grains, with a few exceptions, are not very heavy and at terminal velocity don't seem harmful enough to kill without some very exceptional circumstances.
    I am not advocating shooting into the sky.
    Just wondering how accurate the reports are that falling bullets kill several per Independence Day.
    Unless it's fired straight up, it's going to maintain it's forward momentum, and will travel at its initial speed minus velocity bled to air resistance and gravity.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Hammer wrote:
    What exactly would the math on that be?
    That is, if an object is falling form the sky, it reaches terminal velocity and no more. Bullets, from 40 - 300 grains, with a few exceptions, are not very heavy and at terminal velocity don't seem harmful enough to kill without some very exceptional circumstances.
    I am not advocating shooting into the sky.
    Just wondering how accurate the reports are that falling bullets kill several per Independence Day.
    Unless it's fired straight up, it's going to maintain it's forward momentum, and will travel at its initial speed minus velocity bled to air resistance and gravity.
    I'm not following you exactly. If it were fired at 89.99 degrees, it's horizontal velocity would exist, but be negligible. It would go up until it lost all velocity fired, then down to earth at (increasing to) it's terminal velocity, just not directly back where it started.
    I appreciate that at angles less than___ (and I admit I don't know the # here, but probably above 60 degrees) it would continue to have a horizontal vector carried, but I haven't yet picked out the reasoning that it MUST be exactly 90 to horizontal to retain lethal forward motion when falling back to earth.
    Is there a link?
    A mathematic equation that substantiates?

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Hammer wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Hammer wrote:
    What exactly would the math on that be?
    That is, if an object is falling form the sky, it reaches terminal velocity and no more. Bullets, from 40 - 300 grains, with a few exceptions, are not very heavy and at terminal velocity don't seem harmful enough to kill without some very exceptional circumstances.
    I am not advocating shooting into the sky.
    Just wondering how accurate the reports are that falling bullets kill several per Independence Day.
    Unless it's fired straight up, it's going to maintain it's forward momentum, and will travel at its initial speed minus velocity bled to air resistance and gravity.
    I'm not following you exactly. If it were fired at 89.99 degrees, it's horizontal velocity would exist, but be negligible. It would go up until it lost all velocity fired, then down to earth at (increasing to) it's terminal velocity, just not directly back where it started.
    I appreciate that at angles less than___ (and I admit I don't know the # here, but probably above 60 degrees) it would continue to have a horizontal vector carried, but I haven't yet picked out the reasoning that it MUST be exactly 90 to horizontal to retain lethal forward motion when falling back to earth.
    Is there a link?
    A mathematic equation that substantiates?
    Depends on the angle, the velocity, the mass of the bullet, etc etc etc. You're right that as the angle approaches the vertical the horizontal vector reaches zero.

    I don't know of any hard and fast rule. The point is just that very few bullets are fired straight up. It doesn't take much to leave residual horizontal momentum. How much of that it takes to kill depends on a whole lot.

  25. #25
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    marshaul wrote:
    Hammer wrote:
    marshaul wrote:
    Hammer wrote:
    What exactly would the math on that be?
    That is, if an object is falling form the sky, it reaches terminal velocity and no more. Bullets, from 40 - 300 grains, with a few exceptions, are not very heavy and at terminal velocity don't seem harmful enough to kill without some very exceptional circumstances.
    I am not advocating shooting into the sky.
    Just wondering how accurate the reports are that falling bullets kill several per Independence Day.
    Unless it's fired straight up, it's going to maintain it's forward momentum, and will travel at its initial speed minus velocity bled to air resistance and gravity.
    I'm not following you exactly. If it were fired at 89.99 degrees, it's horizontal velocity would exist, but be negligible. It would go up until it lost all velocity fired, then down to earth at (increasing to) it's terminal velocity, just not directly back where it started.
    I appreciate that at angles less than___ (and I admit I don't know the # here, but probably above 60 degrees) it would continue to have a horizontal vector carried, but I haven't yet picked out the reasoning that it MUST be exactly 90 to horizontal to retain lethal forward motion when falling back to earth.
    Is there a link?
    A mathematic equation that substantiates?
    Depends on the angle, the velocity, the mass of the bullet, etc etc etc. You're right that as the angle approaches the vertical the horizontal vector reaches zero.

    I don't know of any hard and fast rule. The point is just that very few bullets are fired straight up. It doesn't take much to leave residual horizontal momentum. How much of that it takes to kill depends on a whole lot.
    Well, here is at least some data from mythbusters.
    http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/e...red_up_vo.html

    I think it would be better to term a bullet fired on an acute angle to be a bullet in flight on a descending trajectory. It is easy to see why it would carry enough velocity to kill. Those vertical or near vertical seem more likely to break the skin or give one a headache.
    I am NOT volunteering to test the theory, just trying to clarify and separate facts from fable.

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