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Peninsula Town Center

mpg9999

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, Virginia, USA
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I've OC'd there before with no issues, and seen posts that others have as well. I was looking at their website today and saw this:

http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/Information/GuestInformation/CommunityStandards.aspx

Maintain Proper Decorum
Do not engage in behavior that can be described as obscene, offensive and/or may disturb others or interrupt normal business activity. Examples include:
  • Running, yelling, skating, skateboarding, rollerblading, playing of radios or littering.
  • Possessing any open container of alcohol or consuming alcohol anywhere except in businesses licensed to sell adult beverages or at official PTC events.
  • The use of offensive language such as swear words or racial slurs as well as inappropriate hand gestures, including but not restricted to gang signs or symbols, loud or boisterous behavior, or throwing of objects.
  • Inappropriate attire. No offensive message or picture may be displayed on clothing.
  • Unauthorized photography/videography on PTC property.
  • Soliciting, including the exchange of personal information, picketing, literature distribution or panhandling.
  • Failure to respond to a reasonable request or direction from PTC staff.
  • Refusal to present appropriate photo ID with proof of age if requested by security or other PTC staff.
  • Animals that are not in the company of and trained to assist physically challenged persons.
  • Weapons of any kind.


Wondering if I should send them an email or not.
 

thnycav

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Does not sound like you can do much there. I guess they want you to go buy something then get out.
 

Tralpat

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I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
 

TFred

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Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
I'm not familiar with the layout of this place beyond what Google Maps shows me, but if it's a typical mall, the private property begins as you enter the parking lot from a public street. If you are talking about the sidewalk going up to the stores, but inside the parking lot area, it's all privately owned.

TFred
 

45acpForMe

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"For that reason, we at PTC, with the endorsement of our Citizens Advisory Committee and the Hampton Youth Commission, have established the following Community Standards..."

I OC-ed several times to Chipotle (often after gun shows) and Five Guys with my kids. I was thinking of trying some of the other newer restaurants around there like the Pub. I guess they don't want my business.

I wonder how many of the restaurants/stores agree with the above statement? Would it be worth it to have someone from VCDL contact the bolded groups or are they so biased it would be a waste of time?


Edited to add: I went to their contact page and let them know the policy was causing the loss of my and others business. I'm not sure their minds can be changed but we can try.
 

45acpForMe

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TFred wrote:
Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
I'm not familiar with the layout of this place beyond what Google Maps shows me, but if it's a typical mall, the private property begins as you enter the parking lot from a public street. If you are talking about the sidewalk going up to the stores, but inside the parking lot area, it's all privately owned.

TFred


This Google map image is a few years old. They have torn down that "mall" and rebuilt an outdoor mall.
 

TFred

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45acpForMe wrote:
TFred wrote:
Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
I'm not familiar with the layout of this place beyond what Google Maps shows me, but if it's a typical mall, the private property begins as you enter the parking lot from a public street. If you are talking about the sidewalk going up to the stores, but inside the parking lot area, it's all privately owned.

TFred
This Google map image is a few years old. They have torn down that "mall" and rebuilt an outdoor mall.
Ah, I see. I wouldn't just assume that the streets are now public property though. There are new style malls that are designed to appear as small towns. I believe there is a process to turn over the public areas (including roads) of a private development to the local jurisdiction, and many are reluctant to take them in these economic times.

I don't know the answer, I'm just saying that it is not safe to assume the answer is what it may appear to be.

TFred
 

mpg9999

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Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
Hmm, well that's too bad. I've OC'd to that Chipotle many times (15+) and never had any issues. I'm pretty sure the last time I was there a security guard noticed. He didn't say anything. Since it appears they are enforcing it maybe I will send them an email.

Anyone else notice this at the bottom of their community standards page?

"These PTC Community Standards are not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the shopping center Security Department"
 

TFred

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mpg9999 wrote:
Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
Hmm, well that's too bad. I've OC'd to that Chipotle many times (15+) and never had any issues. I'm pretty sure the last time I was there a security guard noticed. He didn't say anything. Since it appears they are enforcing it maybe I will send them an email.

Anyone else notice this at the bottom of their community standards page?

"These PTC Community Standards are not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the shopping center Security Department"
One has few rights on someone else's property. Carrying a firearm is not among them. Complaining along this line of reasoning doesn't really help anyone, IMHO.

TFred
 

mpg9999

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, Virginia, USA
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TFred wrote:
mpg9999 wrote:
Tralpat wrote:
I was asked to leave there on Saturday. I have OC'd to Target, 5 Guys, and Chipotle before. Saturday, as we were walking into 5 Guys, one of the security guards stopped me and informed me that it was in fact private property and that firearms were not allowed. Not exactly sure where the public and private property boundaries are though as I was on the sidewalk outside.
Hmm, well that's too bad. I've OC'd to that Chipotle many times (15+) and never had any issues. I'm pretty sure the last time I was there a security guard noticed. He didn't say anything. Since it appears they are enforcing it maybe I will send them an email.

Anyone else notice this at the bottom of their community standards page?

"These PTC Community Standards are not intended to deprive any person of their applicable civil rights or liberties under the law. If you feel your rights are being violated, please notify the shopping center Security Department"
One has few rights on someone else's property. Carrying a firearm is not among them. Complaining along this line of reasoning doesn't really help anyone, IMHO.

TFred
Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that the right to carry trumps private property.
 

skidmark

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45acpForMe wrote:
Would it be worth it to have someone from VCDL contact the bolded groups or are they so biased it would be a waste of time?


Edited to add: I went to their contact page and let them know the policy was causing the loss of my and others business. I'm not sure their minds can be changed but we can try.

"Someone from VCDL" usually translates into you, doing exactly what you did - contact them and express your disappointment and disagreement with their policy.

As much as the organization has developed a reputation for supporting and protecting the rights of gun owners, thee is no mgical talisman associated with the initials "VCDL". The power that it has comes from the members uniting in a common cause.

And that power comes from one person standing up for gun rights and against irrational gun prohibitions. That person is not necessarily the President of VCDL, although at times when repeated individual efforts are not sucessful the weight of the organization, through the office of the President, may need to be brought to bear. I've always heard the question "What have you already done?" asked when a situation or problem is brought to VCDL.

Thanks for contacting them via their website. Don't let up the pressure on them to give you a response.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

newportnews757

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Public space/sidewalks, or private, your guess is as good as mine.


Tax Increment Financing, TIF, was used to help build this mall, sidewalks, lights, park, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peninsula_Town_Center

The specs of the deal...
http://www.hampton.gov/press_release/cda_details.html

A TIF is a way for a city to divert future tax money to a district, in this case a privately owned mall. From what I can tell these are private streets and private public space.
“TIF is a tool to use future gains in taxes to finance current improvements (which theoretically will create the conditions for those future gains).”
This is like building a home by tearing down a dilapidated house, then paying for it with future gains in taxes to pay for mortgage, with the tax base set at the dilapidated house value? Very fair to others with the same businesses, oops, make that houses in the same district.


http://www.hampton.gov/press_release/cda_details.html is very vague as to if the city purchased land, leasehold, or just got a right of way for the city to go onto the land for the improvements.

Acquisition of fee and/or leasehold interests or rights-of-way for public improvements (consists of approximately 16 acres)

I read somewhere where someone was asked to leave because she was walking the dog in the public park. Another, or the same, was asked to leave because they were walking around taking pictures. If you noticed the pictures of this place are "well" done, i.e. shot from rooftops down, or low on the ground, to give the appearance of a larger, grander place then it is.

One of the problems and some of the misunderstanding is caused by all the press release from the city/mall, about open public parks, free public parking, no tax money "up front" going to the place, that the 0.5% shoppers fee goes to the the "free public spaces", parks, etc, etc. From what you can get from that press release, 65.6 million of tax money, what is that 2.1 8 million in taxes per year, from the PTC, is used to pay off 65.5 million of the 90 million in bonds? The 0.5% shoppers fee to help out the rest? You figure it out.

Interesting tax money going to property where you can't even walk a dog. What I like about that free parking deck is that the 168 highend apartments have a walkover to it. Guess that is why it is placed where it is. Gee, 168 car slots going to apartments? Lets hope these people don't have 2 cars, or most of them are bus riders. That deck isn't that big.

Hampton is planning to rip out all up and down Mercury for this kind of development.
Lets hope they don't finance it the same way, or apply the same "rules".

http://www.hampton.gov/ed/iframe.html?linkfrom=coliseum_plan&bc=Full%20Plan&url=../community-plan/pdf/coliseum_central_master_plan.pdf
 

Thundar

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Me thinks much of the outside area is now public property. There are Hampton parking meters on the new roads that arewinding through "mall town".
 

Thundar

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Thundar wrote:
Me thinks much of the outside area is now public property. There are Hampton parking meters on the new roads that arewinding through "mall town".
It appears that the meters are some sort of city/private hybrid. Not sure how this works.
 

Thundar

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The streets are owned by the Peninsula Town Center Community Development Authority. Here is the info for Merchant Lane from the City of Hampton Website:

General Info









[align=right]PIN/LRSN:[/align]

13002037



[align=center]

http://hamptonpublic.hampton.gov/realinfo/RealImage/[/align]



[align=right]MAP NO:[/align]

07F001 00 000B23




[align=right]PARENT MAP NO:[/align]

07F001 00 000B1




[align=right]OWNER:[/align]

PENINSULA TOWN CENTER COMM DEV AUTH




[align=right]PROPERTYADDRESS:[/align]

MERCHANT LN




[align=right]GISADDRESS:[/align]

MERCHANT LN ROW




[align=right]NEIGHBORHOOD:[/align]

9070




[align=right]PROPERTY USE:[/align]

604 /Exempt




[align=right]PLAT BOOK/PAGE:[/align]

0000/0000




[align=right]MAILING ADDRESS:[/align]

C/O KAUFMAN & CANOLES ATTN MASTRACCO
150 WEST MAIN ST STE 2100
NORFOLK VA23510




[align=right]LEGAL DESCRIPTION:[/align]

PENINSULA TWN CTR BLK23 1.4861 AC



Link: http://www.hampton.va.us/sol/propertysearch/accept.html



The Peninsula Town Center Community Development Authority is a public entity created by the Hampton City Council.

  • The Community Development Authority, recently established by City Council, has the authority to issue bonds to finance the public infrastructure that is part of the Town Center. The City is not responsible for the repayment of CDA bonds.
Link: http://www.hampton.gov/press_release/new_peninsula_town_center.html


Sorry this post is so screwed up. Tried to fix, but can't. All the info is there.
 

Thundar

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Hampton City property records also show a.34 acre parcel owned by the authority on Allainby Way. I think that is Mary's park, but I am not sure. More research needed.
 

newportnews757

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Thundar wrote:
Me thinks much of the outside area is now public property.  There are Hampton parking meters on the new roads that are winding through "mall town".

Parking meters are PTC owned and operated.
Read...
http://www.peninsulatowncenter.com/CommunityFoundation.aspx

Another spin by City Council and the mall, "Change for Charity Meter Program...Your parking meter change funds local charities."
Well, kind of, read the fine print, some people believe what they think they heard, or read.

"The donations from Change for Charity represent 100% of ticket proceeds and a percentage of meter revenues therefore based on total parking meter receipts at Peninsula Town Center."

So sports fans, that is 100% of the fines, and an unknown/uposted percentage of the take from the meters... humm, wonder which is greater.

I am taking Gilliland's advice, a response from Hampton City Council member Randy Gilliland, Daily Press, "Gilliland's response to complaints: " If you don't like it, don't shop there."


He is not re-running, as I remember in the Daily Press, he doesn't like the egos he had to put up with.

Anyone check the color of the street signs in the PTC. Most cities will use another color for private roads.

My guess is this is all private. The roads/streets just dump you off in a parking lot, there are no city street signs.

It is an arm pit with fleas at best.
 
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