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Thread: Mega Rant

  1. #1
    McX
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    I can tell you speak from the heart MCX. Unfortunately, to many people here, they probably don't care about your well directed and meaningful insight like they should.

    There are so many things to glean from Leonards and other individuals interactions with law enforcement. It is my firm belief that the police have been forced to shift focus from law enforcement, to opinion or feelings enforcement. In fact, every argument that has been drummed up against Leonard is based on emotive response, and dramatic flair.

    Once upon a time, an open carrier decided to open carry. This open carrier likely walked down main street America, and almost positively received responses from people about how silly or stupid he was for doing so.

    "Yeah it may technically be legal, but it's stupid and attracts attention", is the likely outcry.

    Gee, I have heard that one before.

    There is also the argument that Leonard is being confrontational with Law Enforcement. Despite some of his comments, I am willing to make a bet I am feeling has pretty good odds.

    I bet Leonard does not think all LEOs/LEAs are inept, etc.

    To the accusation that Leonard has been "confrontational" or was "fishing for a lawsuit", I say this:

    So what?!

    His rights as an American citizen allow him this absolute right! His government answers to him. Period!

    Maybe his statement goes above and beyond simply wanting to change law. Maybe it goes above and beyond a simple lawsuit. Maybe not. Who cares?

    Maybe you don't agree with him doing it. Who cares what you think? Not I.

    The majority of people who have opposed his actions, have really done so in very poor taste, and almost all have been excessively arrogant and immature in response. Often the commentary has included personal attacks, name calling, or other attacks specifically meant to demean Leonard in some way.

    Funny thing is, I recall very well being told by a forum member I have not seen for a long time on here, when Leonards activities at Radnor Lake was fresh news(on or about October of 2009), that he would surely be the next David Koresh, Ted Kaczynski, or Nidal Hasan. In fact, I was told that I would likewise be the next iteration of these individuals, for simply pointing out the gaping holes in the attacks on Leonard, and the horrible attacks on Leonard in general.

    For those who are wondering:

    --I don't know Leonard.
    --He and I are not "boys".
    --I do not hate law enforcement. I think the job they do is extremely important in this country!


    I just know that as an American, I must stand by those who have proven themselves to not be dangerous, and acted in a completely law abiding manner.

    This goes for the St. Johns, Kimberguys, and the gentleman up here in Vancouver, WA who may very well turn out to be the victim of stereotyping and profiling gun owners to prove some political point by people who may possibly have no integrity and want to push their own agendas.

    It's incredible to me that people are trying so hard to paint the activities of the officers and rangers in Leonards case in some heavenly light, while trying to firmly affix halos to their heads, even after the well documented actions present in the reports provided.

    We're all human beings. We all make mistakes. Law Enforcement cannot be perfect.

    However, just as law enforcement is tasked with enforcing laws (again not "oddities, opinions, or feelings"!), and the ignorance of a law is inexcusable on behalf of the citizen, the same is absolutely demanded of our law enforcement, or should be.

    Ya know, if the ranger had given Leonard a "piece of his mind" and stated how he felt about Leonard carrying an AK47 pistol in the park,..whatever. He is entitled to an opinion just like the rest of us. May his opinion count at the ballot box, just as it should for the rest of us. So long as he let Leonard go, just as he did when he initially stopped him, then so be it.

    If Leonard had attempted to sue on these grounds, I would have told him, in my opinion, to pound sand.

    Frankly, and not to sound like an intellectually superior being cast down from planet awesome, some of you need to really apply a lot more critical thinking to your thought process.

    You need to sit and utilize abstract thought before flagrantly attacking another person. Which means to sit and observe the situation from the position of viewing all the facts, and come to as many conclusions as possible, then applying probability to the most likely conclusion weighing all factors and analyzing every different facet or fact and how it pertains to what you believe.

    If you cannot do this on the fly, you may have a lot of self discovery to do, in my opinion.

    I am sure the responses will be less than pleasant, and not very well sorted or thought out. More meaningless personal attacks are sure to be incoming, and I will be absolutely shocked if this thread can contain well articulated, insightful responses.

    Using the process I described above, I rate the probability of flaming not being present in this thread as "very low".

    C'est la vie


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I use the principle of non-aggression as my personal standard for moral direction and judgement.

    It occurs to me that Leonard has committed no acts of aggression.

    Not only that, even the arbitrary and capricious standard of law can find no fault with his behavior.

    Absent aggression, absent even a single law being broken, there is simply no cause for us to concern ourselves with his behavior.

    I can't really think of nasty enough things to say about people who continue to rail against him regardless of this reality.




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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Question: What law has kwik broken?

    Answer: none.

    If you don't like what he is doing then don't support him or go to his permit hearing. Don't spew hate and bad karma.

    You know what they say about karma, she is a bitch.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Question: What law has kwik broken?

    Answer: none.

    If you don't like what he is doing then don't support him or go to his permit hearing.Â* Don't spew hate and bad karma.Â*

    You know what they say about karma, she is a bitch.
    I am genuinely, deeply disturbed by the number of posters here who freely admit he broke no law (and nobody has yet accused him of aggression), yet still try to justify action against him on the grounds of violated "common sense".

    When we can be deprived of rights of privileges, or otherwise assaulted by the government, simply due to "common sense" having been violated when the bare minimum standard of criminality cannot be met, then we truly have no rights left. Freedom has been annihilated.

    What happens when a judge decides that merely having a gun violates common sense, hmm? What prevents any action whatsoever from being taken on the whim of anybody with a scrap of power and a new definition of "common sense"?

    Like I said, I just can't think of nasty enough things to say. I wish I could; I feel like they need to be said.

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    Proper capitalization and paragraph breaks would help the OP.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    marshaul wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    Question: What law has kwik broken?

    Answer: none.

    If you don't like what he is doing then don't support him or go to his permit hearing. Don't spew hate and bad karma.

    You know what they say about karma, she is a bitch.
    I am genuinely, deeply disturbed by the number of posters here who freely admit he broke no law (and nobody has yet accused him of aggression), yet still try to justify action against him on the grounds of violated "common sense".

    When we can be deprived of rights of privileges, or otherwise assaulted by the government, simply due to "common sense" having been violated when the bare minimum standard of criminality cannot be met, then we truly have no rights left. Freedom has been annihilated.

    What happens when a judge decides that merely having a gun violates common sense, hmm? What prevents any action whatsoever from being taken on the whim of anybody with a scrap of power and a new definition of "common sense"?

    Like I said, I just can't think of nasty enough things to say. I wish I could; I feel like they need to be said.
    It has been said time and again that kwik broke no laws--and he didn't. He was within the law and yet too many people are still wanting to condemn him for what he did. I refuse to condemn him--I applaud him. He is trying to do what so many other people in Tennessee refuse to do--get OC into the spotlight in a good way--in my opinion by showing that he is carrying a big gun and yet is doing nothing illegal or amoral.

    It is like dog-pile-on-the-rabbit when it comes to kwik and it makes me sick to hear people who supposedly support OC to turn directly around and condemn a man for OC'ing in a way they consider socially unacceptable. OC itself is considered unacceptable by many people--many of those in law enforcement among them.

    The bottom line is Kwik broke NO laws, violated NO ordinances and did everything LEGALLY--and some people just don't like it.

    I for one hope that Kwik either gets his permit back, or in lieu of that--that he decides to leave Tennessee for a state that does not require a permit to carry a gun--where it is still a RIGHT and not a PRIVILEGE--because there is a BIG difference between them, and Tennessee offers it's citizens a privilege which it can just as easily take away.

    I hope you get your permit back Kwik--and I Hope you manage to get a big settlement/judgment if you decide to sue for what the police did to you.

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    suntzu wrote:
    The bottom line is Kwik broke NO laws, violated NO ordinances and did everything LEGALLY--and some people just don't like it.

    I am going to sue the Belle Meade police department. Not only were my rights violated, but they have taken it further and decided to harrass and retaliate aginst me. They lied and failed to disclose the truth in several communications I have discovered by foia's. The Belle Meade police department(BMPD) as far as I can tell is the only department which petitioned TNDPS to revoke my handgun carry permit. The TNDPS decision to revoke was based upon letters they received from the BMPD.









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    Here is a letter Belle Meade must have "forgot" to give me...I just got it today from TNDPS. Lots of lies.









    I have never "staked out" anyone. Never kicked out of any codes building or escorted out. I wasn't carrying a dangerous weapon. The cop handling the weapon made it dangerous. The video shows the cop pointing it at cars and working the hammer. I was never "dared" to walk with a gun in radnor lake.

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    Seriously?? You can't just leave it alone can you? You can't stop; it's like a game to you! These posts prove there was in fact incidents reported (that you constantly deny) of your anger and attitude and that some people were in fact threatened by you. It's obvious now Belle Meade has their ducks in a row and has conducted quite an extensive investigation on EVERYTHING.

    You are by far the biggest anti law enforcement individual I have ever "seen" in my life. This isn't a "retaliation" against you, it's action by the stateagainst the behavior YOU demonstrated.This isn't about your rights or your permit; it's about who you can sue next.

    Never fails that when the admin lock one of your rants you continue on with another.



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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Grassroots wrote:
    Seriously?? You can't just leave it alone can you? You can't stop; it's like a game to you! These posts prove there was in fact incidents reported (that you constantly deny) of your anger and attitude and that some people were in fact threatened by you. It's obvious now Belle Meade has their ducks in a row and has conducted quite an extensive investigation on EVERYTHING.
    Investigations which have all concluded...... that no laws are being broken.

    Your posts are all so silly. If Leonard is the "most anti-law enforcement" person, than you're the biggest statist shill.

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    Grassroots wrote:
    ...You are by far the biggest anti law enforcement individual I have ever "seen" in my life. This isn't a "retaliation" against you, it's action by the stateagainst the behavior YOU demonstrated...
    Do not ever so much as fart funny Grassroots. Perhaps the "Behavior Police" will make an outstanding example out of you.

    It's not about Law Enforcement, you know, enforcing laws is it? It's about a war of "common sense", and who's "sense" is more "common". Perhaps you could apply more interpreted meaning to "common sense" by stating you are a law enforcement officer, therefore entitled to judge what is truly "common sense" or not.

    Hell, maybe you can write a thesis on "appropriate behavior"? Maybe you can get your local or state legislature to speak on your behalf as to the implementation of "appropriate behavior laws".

    That enormous stack of paperwork is the largest collection of cut down trees I have ever witnessed over the legal acts of an individual citizen.

    Make more suppositions with the other "individual rights do not trump my common sense!", anti-Constitutional friends over there.

    Please tell us all how just as it was said 5 months ago, that Leonard was "mentally unstable" and a "clear example of mentality paralleling the unibombers" that was going to cause him to go on a mass murdering spree.

    It's been 5 months, you hyperbole spewing elitists.

    Where are all the dead bodies and illegal activities?

    Put up or shut up.


    Oh to help out that extremely ignorant Chief:

    .44 Magnum

    Grain: 240
    Muzzle Velocity: 1400fps
    Muzzle Energy: 1200 ft-lbs


    7.62x39mm

    Grain: 123 - 154
    Muzzle Velocity: 2329
    Muzzle Energy: 1467 ft-lbs


    .454 Casull

    Grain: 300
    Muzzle Velocity: 1600
    Muzzle Energy: 1800


    For Gods sake, being a cop does not make you a ballistics expert. Holy crap man, know what you are talking about. The 7.62x39mm is NOT a full length rifle round, nor is it "more dangerous" than other common rounds found in pistols all over the nation!

    This is the stupid as hell conversation about "lethality" again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    Grassroots wrote:
    Seriously?? You can't just leave it alone can you? You can't stop; it's like a game to you! These posts prove there was in fact incidents reported (that you constantly deny) of your anger and attitude and that some people were in fact threatened by you. It's obvious now Belle Meade has their ducks in a row and has conducted quite an extensive investigation on EVERYTHING.

    You are by far the biggest anti law enforcement individual I have ever "seen" in my life. This isn't a "retaliation" against you, it's action by the stateagainst the behavior YOU demonstrated.This isn't about your rights or your permit; it's about who you can sue next.

    Never fails that when the admin lock one of your rants you continue on with another.

    What incidents--he was within the law as has been more than demonstrated on NUMEROUS occasions.

    What did they conduct an investigation on--so he believes in standing up for the rights of the people--WOW that must make him a criminal to actually believe he should be allowed to conduct his business without undue interference by the state.

    WHAT crime(s) did he commit? Was he ever arrested by the police on any of these occasions? If not--why not?

    Yes yes, it is always that people who OC must be looking for an easy dollar or two when they look at a cop don't they? I mean according to you--that is about what OC'ing is about isn't it? Maybe, just maybe, it is about being able to move about freely without being harassed by the state?

    Retaliation? ABSOLUTELY that is what this is about---the police KNEW that he was not committing a crime, and so they had to find another way to get to him--get the state to revoke his permit, and it at least gives the city police some breathing room--they know their story most likely won't stand up under review, but it was not about whether it would stand up was it--it was about showing some citizen who really has the power--they can get to him, make an example out of him, and he will serve as a lesson to the rest--"tow OUR line, and do as we say or else your permit will be next...."





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    Grassroots wrote:
    Seriously?? You can't just leave it alone can you? You can't stop; it's like a game to you! These posts prove there was in fact incidents reported (that you constantly deny) of your anger and attitude and that some people were in fact threatened by you. It's obvious now Belle Meade has their ducks in a row and has conducted quite an extensive investigation on EVERYTHING.

    You are by far the biggest anti law enforcement individual I have ever "seen" in my life. This isn't a "retaliation" against you, it's action by the stateagainst the behavior YOU demonstrated.This isn't about your rights or your permit; it's about who you can sue next.

    Never fails that when the admin lock one of your rants you continue on with another.

    I've already stated that much of what was written by Sexton is a lie.

    I was cheated by summey's business partner and sued them once I found their address.

    I was never "emotional" at codes. I went to codes twice and entered and spoke with people there both times. Neither time was I asked or told to leave.

    I never "staked out" summey's house or business.

    The "encounter" with a local business appears to be Costco. As I have stated I have never had an "encounter" with any costco employee.

    Now I'm a risk to the public because of the color of my handgun? I can paint my gun whatever color I wish.

    I wasn't "dared" to go to radnor lake to test a "vague" law. For one, the law isn't vague and second I don't do "dares".

    They've taken out of context what I said about the black powder pistol and how dangerous it is. The cop who took the pistol was pointing it in an unsafe direction and handling it inappropriately. In those circumstances it was dangerous due to the cops handling of the handgun. The video clearly shows the officer pointing the gun at traffic and pulling the hammer back.



    The Tennessee Department of safety has the burden of proof in their little exercise against me.

    As a law abiding citizen you can be sure that I do not appreciate this retaliation.



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    kwikrnu wrote:
    ...They've taken out of context what I said about the black powder pistol and how dangerous it is. The cop who took the pistol was pointing it in an unsafe direction and handling it inappropriately. In those circumstances it was dangerous due to the cops handling of the handgun. The video clearly shows the officer pointing the gun at traffic and pulling the hammer back...
    This is absolute fact, and is clearly seen in the video. Leonards response to the female officers attempt to bait him specifically points out that he is worried about the officers handling of the firearm, lack of muzzle discipline, and clear lack of knowledge of how to operate that specific firearm safely.

    I would be happy to point out the video over and over again if anybody wishes to contest it.

    This is an example of an outright lie, well documented in the FOIA documents kwik has given us, that will likely be wholly dismissed by those who feel opinion should triumph law.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    slowfiveoh wrote:
    kwikrnu wrote:
    ...They've taken out of context what I said about the black powder pistol and how dangerous it is. The cop who took the pistol was pointing it in an unsafe direction and handling it inappropriately. In those circumstances it was dangerous due to the cops handling of the handgun. The video clearly shows the officer pointing the gun at traffic and pulling the hammer back...
    This is absolute fact, and is clearly seen in the video. Leonards response to the female officers attempt to bait him specifically points out that he is worried about the officers handling of the firearm, lack of muzzle discipline, and clear lack of knowledge of how to operate that specific firearm safely.

    I would be happy to point out the video over and over again if anybody wishes to contest it.

    This is an example of an outright lie, well documented in the FOIA documents kwik has given us, that will likely be wholly dismissed by those who feel opinion should triumph law.


    Sexton is a Belle Meade detective and saw the video. Now, why would he lie about what was said? The only reason I can come up with is to retaliate against me.

    Here is the video it starts at 3:35.


    goins: picks up black powder pistol from the ground.

    me: that's a loaded handgun be careful.

    me: those percussion caps are on there, handle that carefully.

    goins: REALY

    me: yes, I don't want you to shoot me.

    howell: Does it present a hazard to law enforcement?

    me: It presents a hazard if he doesn't know what he is doing.

    Howell: Does it present a hazard to law enforcement?

    me: If does not know what he is doing he can shoot somebody with that handgun, it's a loaded handgun.

    Howell: So, if I'm not a firearms expert I can be in danger?

    me: If you're not a firearms expert you could be in danger.




    It is at about the 6 minute mark where goins turns toward the camera and point the gun at Southbound Belle Meade Blvd. traffic.







  20. #20
    Regular Member RussP's Avatar
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    Totality of Circumstances



    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    RussP wrote:
    Totality of Circumstances


    Totality of what? Here is the staement by Sexton;

    "I found that Mr. Embody did carry a weapon in an unsafe manner(1), in an unsafe condition(2) and in a very hazardous location(3). Walking and/or jogging on Belle Meade Blvd is dangerous when one is paying strict attention to their immediate safety. While carrying a firearm that, in Mr. Embody's own descriptors(4), is dangerous and may discharge on a busy street is a very serious safety issue. Mr. Embody states that his purpose was to simply obey the law and carrying a firearm he is allowed to carry. Even though the action endangered Mr. Embody, any other person that was using the roadway for a walking/jogging track and the responding officers shows a clear and intentional disregard for the safety of others."

    Taken from the letter written from Det. Sexton to Chief Eads of the Belle Meade police and given to the TNDPS.

    1. "Unsafe manner" is only legal manner one may carry the handgun. City code 11-602 & TCA 39-17-1314(a).

    2. Unsafe condition? I guess they are going to convince me that loaded handguns are unsafe? Maybe that is why the City tried to ban guns a few weeks ago.

    3. Hazardous location? I wore reflective clothing. I walked as prescribed by law. I paid attention to traffic. If walking in Belle Meade is dangerous it should be prohibited.

    4. I never stated the handgun was dangerous. Cpl. Goins was clearly putting me and others in danger and I commented on his actions. He pointed the gun in an unsafe direction and pulled the hammer back several times. It is on the video taken by the cops.



    According to Sexton legally carrying a loaded gun on Belle Meade Blvd. is unsafe and dangerous.








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    why does the first page refuse to load?

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    old dog wrote:
    why does the first page refuse to load?
    If you have dial-up it probably won't. I posted a lot of images.

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    kwikrnu wrote:
    RussP wrote:
    Totality of Circumstances


    Totality of what? Here is the staement by Sexton;...
    Circumstances, facts are always accompanied by circumstances which more or less influence the mind in forming a judgment. These points ought to be carefully examined, in order to form a correct opinion. The first question ought to be, is the fact possible ? If so, are there any circumstances which render it impossible, unbelievable?

    A fact may have circumstances around it that extend out farther than may be obvious at first glance. When the total of all circumstances are considered, they will result in a more accurate opinion of the fact.

    It is the big-picture, the picture which includes all the facts and circumstances.

    Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

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    i read some of the trash printed and exchanged about kwick. time and time again they site; could be, might be. have we grown to be a nation that harrasses individuals on and tramples their rights based on could be, might be? kwick and i know the answer to that question. get 'em quick, now you got their words on paper to persue them legally with.

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