Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Local Ordinances

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    In another thread, a new member was concerned that Richmond had severe knife laws. That's not really a topic discussed here (Once in a while) but stop and identify is.

    Virginia is still a Dillon Rule state although there have been a couple of failed attempts to bypass it.
    I don't want to discuss the laws of statutory construction in depth (Mostly because Municipal law is way over my head) but generally speaking, as it pertains to criminal ordinances, the municipality cannot make a law that is more severe or restrictive than the state law.

    There are exceptions but I've never seen one that pertains to knives.
    This is a good explanation from the Virginia Municipal League on the Dillon rule.

    http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dmb/fcpos/dillon.pdf

    Richmond is famous for passing ordinances that are not enforceable and so is Henrico.
    The fact that it's on the books doesn't mean it's legal.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Found this on PWC's home page:

    What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?

    Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.


    [line]

    Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  3. #3
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    264

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Found this on PWC's home page:



    What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?

    Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.


    [line]

    Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

    I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf




  4. #4
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    gis wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Found this on PWC's home page:



    What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?

    Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.


    [line]

    Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

    I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf


    Read the above GLS. If they have them, they can't go beyond what the state has.
    Localities have old or unenforceable ordinances all the time. They aren't enforced because they can't enforce them.

    The fact that they are printed on the internet still doesn't give them the municipal authority to pass them. You can find a lot of things on the internet.

    http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...rthsociety.htm

  5. #5
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    264

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    gis wrote:
    Agent19 wrote:
    Found this on PWC's home page:




    What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?

    Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.


    [line]

    Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

    I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf


    Read the above GLS. If they have them, they can't go beyond what the state has.
    Localities have old or unenforceable ordinances all the time. They aren't enforced because they can't enforce them.

    The fact that they are printed on the internet still doesn't give them the municipal authority to pass them. You can find a lot of things on the internet.

    http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...rthsociety.htm

    Nap, I don't disagree with you. I was simply pointing to a source. I am not a lawyer and definitely no expert on the law, just a cop in a former life.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    I know. I'm just trying to keep it pointed that way.
    Burlyman got huffy when he read Wongs knife laws.

    When I was with the state there was a statute on the books that required the SCC to promulgate rules for the separate rest rooms between the races.

    I couldn't guess the number of people that wrote or called me and said...."That's the Law"

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Fairfax Co., VA
    Posts
    18,766

    Post imported post


    "The vision of local government that Judge Dillon depicted does not exist today, and there are numerous checks and balances on the "unwise and “extravagant" exercise of local power." --Clay Wirt Dep. Director VA Municipal League

    Apparently he hasn't looked too close at what goes on in the Taj Mahal in Fairfax County. The very building itself shouts "extravagance!"

    Thanks for the read, Peter. Nice to know.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NoVa, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    471

    Post imported post

    Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).

    Also, a concealed butterfly knife is legal in VA (Thompson vs Commonwealth). Knife laws in VA are very relaxed.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Well here's a question for you legal folks...

    In a "Dillon Rule state", why do we need a law like 15.2-915 (Preemption)?

    TFred


  10. #10
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    264

    Post imported post

    I know from experience in other states that sometimes legislatures choose to codify things that are already covered elsewhere for the sole reason of clarification and ending the debate.

    I would love to hear from User on this one.

  11. #11
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    264

    Post imported post

    NovaCop10 wrote:
    Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).
    Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NoVa, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    471

    Post imported post

    gis wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).
    Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.
    Haha, of course the felonious assault charge would follow for those who enjoy the thin mattress, but there is that thin line where they can brandish and not get charged, but doesn't happen much. For those who can't afford the gun....

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616

    Post imported post

    NovaCop10 wrote:
    gis wrote:
    NovaCop10 wrote:
    Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).
    Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.
    Haha, of course the felonious assault charge would follow for those who enjoy the thin mattress, but there is that thin line where they can brandish and not get charged, but doesn't happen much. For those who can't afford the gun....
    Then too from a good guy's POV -

    Hostile words, multiple aggressors, proceed to low ready............hmmmmm .......maybe. :quirky

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post


    One of my first post on this site was me quoting (in error)knife carry laws(?) from what someone from The VA State Police told me via email. Unfortunately, I deleted the email soI won't muddy their name
    I was quickly corrected by members of this site, righfully so.



    I usually carry a fixed blade out of convience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    700

    Post imported post

    I have a few fixed blades but I don't really like the vertical carry sheaths for them, and only really got them to carry in the woods with me, and because I liked knives before I liked guns.

    Agent19 wrote:
    I usually carry a fixed blade out of convience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)
    How do you carry the fixed blade?

    As odd as it sounds it seems like carrying a fixed blade gets more :shock:s than carrying a handgun.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Curtis wrote:
    I have a few fixed blades but I don't really like the vertical carry sheaths for them, and only really got them to carry in the woods with me, and because I liked knives before I liked guns.

    Agent19 wrote:
    I usually carry a fixed blade out of convenience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)
    How do you carry the fixed blade?

    As odd as it sounds it seems like carrying a fixed blade gets more :shock:s than carrying a handgun.
    I usually carry my SOG Contour, the sheath has been modified for horizontal carry.
    The Contour is carried @ 12' o'clock, allowing me toaccess it with either hand.
    As far a people noticing, haven't had any issues.
    Another OC'er asked me about it once, thinking it was an integral part of my belt buckle, he was trying to save me some grief.

    The other fixed blade I sometimes carry is my customizedHissatsu, it is carriedpoint up @ 9 o'clock.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Another OC'er asked me about it once, thinking it was an integral part of my belt buckle, he was trying to save me some grief.

    The other fixed blade I sometimes carry is my customizedHissatsu, it is carriedpoint up @ 9 o'clock.
    Someone thought you had a 6"+ belt buckle disguised as a knife.?

    Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

    Yata hey
    It is a early CRKT that has been customized.
    The rubber handle has been removed and replaced with hard wood that was sized/custom made for my hand, there was a pic on here somewhere. I'll try to get another one posted.


    The point sits in my arm pit, the handle hangs just below the belt line.

    WhenI carry the Hissatsusomeone always seems to ask what kind of sword I'm carrying.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

    Yata hey
    It is a early CRKT that has been customized.
    The rubber handle has been removed and replaced with hard wood that was sized/custom made for my hand, there was a pic on here somewhere. I'll try to get another one posted.

    The point sits in my arm pit, the handle hangs just below the belt line.

    WhenI carry the Hissatsusomeone always seems to ask what kind of sword I'm carrying.
    Sounds sweet and carried exactly as I imagined.

    As I recall the early CRKTs used a higher grade of steel too.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greene County
    Posts
    3,844

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    As I recall the early CRKTs used a higher grade of steel too.

    Yata hey
    Thethree I have are first yr production models, two SS and one black.

    And, no none of them are for sale.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    I built this to carry about 10 years ago. I actually used some scrap out of the first rifle barrel I made as the low carbon fill in the Damascus mix.

    Hand forged and differential temper
    Buffalo horn Grip with Elephant Ivory Cap. German silver guard and stem.

    Homemade Cutlers Resin to secure the stick tang.

    My wife confiscated it for her desk a couple of years ago




  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616

    Post imported post

    Agent19 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    As I recall the early CRKTs used a higher grade of steel too.

    Yata hey
    Thethree I have are first yr production models, two SS and one black.

    And, no none of them are for sale.
    3! OMG - Gotta check my code book, must be a violation here somewhere! :P

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,616

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    I built this to carry about 10 years ago. I actually used some scrap out of the first rifle barrel I made as the low carbon fill in the Damascus mix.

    Hand forged and differential temper
    Buffalo horn Grip with Elephant Ivory Cap. German silver guard and stem.

    Homemade Cutlers Resin to secure the stick tang.

    My wife confiscated it for her desk a couple of years ago


    Jane has excellent taste in knives. :quirky

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •