Local Ordinances

peter nap · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

In another thread, a new member was concerned that Richmond had severe knife laws. That's not really a topic discussed here (Once in a while) but stop and identify is.

Virginia is still a Dillon Rule state although there have been a couple of failed attempts to bypass it.
I don't want to discuss the laws of statutory construction in depth (Mostly because Municipal law is way over my head) but generally speaking, as it pertains to criminal ordinances, the municipality cannot make a law that is more severe or restrictive than the state law.

There are exceptions but I've never seen one that pertains to knives.
This is a good explanation from the Virginia Municipal League on the Dillon rule.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dmb/fcpos/dillon.pdf

Richmond is famous for passing ordinances that are not enforceable and so is Henrico.
The fact that it's on the books doesn't mean it's legal.

Marco · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

Found this on PWC's home page:

[align=center]What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?[/align]
Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.

[line]

Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

gis · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

Agent19 wrote:

Found this on PWC's home page:

[align=center]What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?[/align]
Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.

[line]

Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

peter nap · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

gis wrote:

Agent19 wrote:

Found this on PWC's home page:

[align=center]What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?[/align]
Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.

[line]

Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

Click to expand...

I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

Read the above GLS. If they have them, they can't go beyond what the state has.
Localities have old or unenforceable ordinances all the time. They aren't enforced because they can't enforce them.

The fact that they are printed on the internet still doesn't give them the municipal authority to pass them. You can find a lot of things on the internet.

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

gis · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

peter nap wrote:

gis wrote:

Agent19 wrote:

Found this on PWC's home page:

[align=center]What about knives (and other bladed weapons)?[/align]
Section 18.2-308 of the State Code, and Section 31-1 of the County Code, prohibit people from carrying concealed dirks, bowie knives, switchblade knives, razors, machetes, ballistic knives (knives with detachable blades that are propelled by a spring-operated mechanism), and a number of other weapons that are not firearms. It is a Class 1 misdemeanor to do so, and such weapon shall be forfeited to the County and may be seized by a police officer as forfeited.

[line]

Nothing about blade length or OC of the above items.

Click to expand...

I think the PWC is better than many in terms of not making overly rediculous laws. You are quoting state law, but there is a handful oflocalities with own knife laws. Here is a link from a reliable source on the knife laws including local ones (scroll down to Virginia).

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

Click to expand...

Read the above GLS. If they have them, they can't go beyond what the state has.
Localities have old or unenforceable ordinances all the time. They aren't enforced because they can't enforce them.

The fact that they are printed on the internet still doesn't give them the municipal authority to pass them. You can find a lot of things on the internet.

http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Nap, I don't disagree with you. I was simply pointing to a source. I am not a lawyer and definitely no expert on the law, just a cop in a former life.

peter nap · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

I know. I'm just trying to keep it pointed that way.
Burlyman got huffy when he read Wongs knife laws.

When I was with the state there was a statute on the books that required the SCC to promulgate rules for the separate rest rooms between the races.

I couldn't guess the number of people that wrote or called me and said...."That's the Law":lol:

Citizen · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

[align=left]"The vision of local government that Judge Dillon depicted does not exist today, and there are numerous checks and balances on the "unwise and “extravagant" exercise of local power." --Clay Wirt Dep. Director VA Municipal League[/align]
[align=left]Apparently he hasn't looked too close at what goes on in the Taj Mahal in Fairfax County. The very building itself shouts "extravagance!"[/align]
[align=left]Thanks for the read, Peter. Nice to know.[/align]

NovaCop · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).

Also, a concealed butterfly knife is legal in VA (Thompson vs Commonwealth). Knife laws in VA are very relaxed.

TFred · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

Well here's a question for you legal folks...

In a "Dillon Rule state", why do we need a law like 15.2-915 (Preemption)?

TFred

gis · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

I know from experience in other states that sometimes legislatures choose to codify things that are already covered elsewhere for the sole reason of clarification and ending the debate.

I would love to hear from User on this one.

gis · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

NovaCop10 wrote:

Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).

Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.

NovaCop · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

gis wrote:

NovaCop10 wrote:

Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).

Click to expand...

Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.

Haha, of course the felonious assault charge would follow for those who enjoy the thin mattress, but there is that thin line where they can brandish and not get charged, but doesn't happen much. For those who can't afford the gun....

Grapeshot · Apr 6, 2010

imported post

NovaCop10 wrote:

gis wrote:

NovaCop10 wrote:

Interesting fact regarding knives in VA... for someone to be charged with brandishing a knife (using a knife to intimidate in a threatening manner), the blade must be a least a foot or longer (18.2-282.1).

Click to expand...

Yes, but with someskilledwriting you could probably submit it as a felonious assault (or whatevever the equivalent in VA would be) and get it pleaded down to brandishing. We always found ways around stuff like that in the old days for really deserving customers. That's what FTOs are for.

Click to expand...

Haha, of course the felonious assault charge would follow for those who enjoy the thin mattress, but there is that thin line where they can brandish and not get charged, but doesn't happen much. For those who can't afford the gun....

Then too from a good guy's POV -

Hostile words, multiple aggressors, proceed to low ready............hmmmmm .......maybe. :quirky

Yata hey

Marco · Apr 7, 2010

imported post

One of my first post on this site was me quoting (in error)knife carry laws(?) from what someone from The VA State Police told me via email. Unfortunately, I deleted the email soI won't muddy their name
I was quickly corrected by members of this site, righfully so.

I usually carry a fixed blade out of convience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)

curtiswr · Apr 7, 2010

imported post

I have a few fixed blades but I don't really like the vertical carry sheaths for them, and only really got them to carry in the woods with me, and because I liked knives before I liked guns.

Agent19 wrote:

I usually carry a fixed blade out of convience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)

How do you carry the fixed blade?

As odd as it sounds it seems like carrying a fixed blade gets more :shock:s than carrying a handgun.

Marco · Apr 8, 2010

imported post

Curtis wrote:

I have a few fixed blades but I don't really like the vertical carry sheaths for them, and only really got them to carry in the woods with me, and because I liked knives before I liked guns.

Agent19 wrote:

I usually carry a fixed blade out of convenience but have been known to carry a 5" blade folder (BM LFK)

Click to expand...

How do you carry the fixed blade?

As odd as it sounds it seems like carrying a fixed blade gets more :shock:s than carrying a handgun.

I usually carry my SOG Contour, the sheath has been modified for horizontal carry.
The Contour is carried @ 12' o'clock, allowing me toaccess it with either hand.
As far a people noticing, haven't had any issues.
Another OC'er asked me about it once, thinking it was an integral part of my belt buckle, he was trying to save me some grief.

The other fixed blade I sometimes carry is my customizedHissatsu, it is carriedpoint up @ 9 o'clock.

Grapeshot · Apr 8, 2010

imported post

Agent19 wrote:

Another OC'er asked me about it once, thinking it was an integral part of my belt buckle, he was trying to save me some grief.

The other fixed blade I sometimes carry is my customizedHissatsu, it is carriedpoint up @ 9 o'clock.

Someone thought you had a 6"+ belt buckle disguised as a knife.? :lol:

Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

Yata hey

Marco · Apr 8, 2010

imported post

Grapeshot wrote:

Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

Yata hey

It is a early CRKT that has been customized.
The rubber handle has been removed and replaced with hard wood that was sized/custom made for my hand, there was a pic on here somewhere. I'll try to get another one posted.

The point sits in my arm pit, the handle hangs just below the belt line.

WhenI carry the Hissatsusomeone always seems to ask what kind of sword I'm carrying.

Grapeshot · Apr 8, 2010

imported post

Agent19 wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

Is your Hissatsu an early one, a CRKT or one you had made? I presume carried point up and high.

Yata hey

Click to expand...

It is a early CRKT that has been customized.
The rubber handle has been removed and replaced with hard wood that was sized/custom made for my hand, there was a pic on here somewhere. I'll try to get another one posted.

The point sits in my arm pit, the handle hangs just below the belt line.

WhenI carry the Hissatsusomeone always seems to ask what kind of sword I'm carrying.

Sounds sweet and carried exactly as I imagined.

As I recall the early CRKTs used a higher grade of steel too.

Yata hey

Marco · Apr 9, 2010

imported post

Grapeshot wrote:

As I recall the early CRKTs used a higher grade of steel too.

Yata hey

Thethree I have are first yr production models, two SS and one black.

And, no none of them are for sale.

Local Ordinances

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Regular Member

Accomplished Advocate

Founder's Club Member

New member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

New member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member

Legendary Warrior

Regular Member