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Thread: Possible .45 trade

  1. #1
    Regular Member younggun20's Avatar
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    I have a 4 in XD .45, and have been asked to trade it for an AO 1911.

    I really like 1911's but all the reports I read on Auto Ordinance 1911's are hit and miss. Any input would be appreciated. Should I make the trade?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    You have a good, reliable handgun in that XD45. I don't know much about AO, but you said that their quality is hit & miss... You obviously have some serious reservations about making this trade. If it were me, I would stick with the XD & save up for the 1911 of your choice.
    Carry on!

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    I don't think anybody in their right mind would trade a good 1911 for an XD45.

    Save up and get a Springfield Mil-Spec or a Para Ordnance GI.

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    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    Curtis wrote:
    I don't think anybody in their right mind would trade a good 1911 for an XD45.
    +1
    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

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    Regular Member Ruger's Avatar
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    I see the anti-polymer crowd has arrived :P
    Carry on!

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    i wouldnt if you are considering it as a carry gun. now if it was just for the range, i might. i believe a carry weopon that isnt a mouse gun(and i dont really recommend them unless thats all yourcomfortable with) should carry 10 rounds atleast.

    before i get a lot of replies saying that you shouldnt need more then the 8 round mag that the 1911 have if you know how to use it, this is my reasoning. iread over this study a guninstruder got from the fbi.it showed thattheaverageamounts of shootsused before the assailant ceased to be a threat wasinbetween3 to 4 shots.( forget what the tenth ofa percent was on it.) and if your assailants on drugs it been recordedof officersputing whole clips into a person and not stoping them.

    and after you think of that, you have to think what if its a group like 3assailants. if the average is in between 3 to 4 shots. that means you only have enough for 2 ppl. and thats if you make every shot. if you miss 1 shot you beter hope your closer to the 3 shoots then the 4 shoots to end the threat.

    Thats my 2 cents worth

  7. #7
    Regular Member 230therapy's Avatar
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    Are you crazy? Keep that XD and just be happy. It shoots well and it's of far higher quality than any Auto Ordnance pistol.

    If you think AO guns are good....
    Does anyone here actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

  8. #8
    Regular Member younggun20's Avatar
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    I think I've been persuaded. Thank you all I will be keeping the XD

  9. #9
    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    goalseter88 wrote:
    i wouldnt if you are considering it as a carry gun. now if it was just for the range, i might. i believe a carry weopon that isnt a mouse gun(and i dont really recommend them unless thats all yourcomfortable with) should carry 10 rounds atleast.

    before i get a lot of replies saying that you shouldnt need more then the 8 round mag that the 1911 have if you know how to use it, this is my reasoning. iread over this study a guninstruder got from the fbi.it showed thattheaverageamounts of shootsused before the assailant ceased to be a threat wasinbetween3 to 4 shots. ( forget what the tenth ofa percent was on it.) and if your assailants on drugs it been recordedof officersputing whole clips into a person and not stoping them.

    and after you think of that, you have to think what if its a group like 3assailants. if the average is in between 3 to 4 shots. that means you only have enough for 2 ppl. and thats if you make every shot. if you miss 1 shot you beter hope your closer to the 3 shoots then the 4 shoots to end the threat.

    Thats my 2 cents worth
    The FBI huh?

    Im sure they took and evaluated shootings from police departments all over the country...which would be a pool of data filled largely with 9mm .40 .45 fired from Glocks, S&Ws, XDs, Berettas, and countless others

    and also alot of police officers pulling the triggers...some of the officers ive met have been amazing shooters but most have been just good enough at the qual to be able to even carry a gun...and If you ask them how often they shoot they will pretty much out right tell you that they shoot as often as there department requires them to. (Which isnt much at all)

    and if you ask them about there gun you might as well be asking about quantum physics..they more than often wont know @#$%.

    most of them (in my experiences) have become police officers for the work its self and the contribution they are able to make...they whernt looking to become ace shooters

    so what do we have here...

    conclusions drawn from a pool of data filled with every caliber under the sun, every gun make and model, and Extremely mixed skill leveled shooters...


    To condemn a single pistol design based on that kind of study seems...ridiculous

    the 1911 is what it is...nothing more and nothing less.

    and what it is, is a highly accurate, hard hitting and outstandingly durable design

    If your a solid shooter that is willing to invest the time and training with a 1911, the 1911 is DEVASTATING...

    If your skilled with it, then the 1911 will allow you to dependably put heavy and hard hitting rounds exactly where you need to with the quickness in a way any other pistol design will have trouble comparing.

    but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and relatively low on board capacity... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick.


    While I have no problem with Glocks, XDs or anything else along those lines...
    for you to claim that a 1911 comes up short as a self defense pistol will leave you in a nice position to get disagreed with

    I could post quotes like this all day....


    "The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what
    a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now" - Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC



    CLINT SMITH ON THE 1911
    “The 1911 remains popular because it’s an efficient tool. In more than 30 years of experience,
    I’ve met more competent, serious gunmen who carry 1911’s than those who pack any other handgun.
    They are professionals – policemen, government agents and others who carry handguns daily because
    the know their live may depend on it…Me? I’ve carried a 1911 every single day for the past 20 years. "





    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

  10. #10
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    ItTakesAWolf wrote:
    goalseter88 wrote:
    i wouldn't if you are considering it as a carry gun. now if it was just for the range, i might. i believe a carry weapon that isnt a mouse gun(and i don't really recommend them unless that's all yourcomfortable with) should carry 10 rounds atleast.

    before i get a lot of replies saying that you shouldnt need more then the 8 round mag that the 1911 have if you know how to use it, this is my reasoning. iread over this study a guninstruder got from the fbi.it showed thattheaverageamounts of shootsused before the assailant ceased to be a threat wasinbetween3 to 4 shots. ( forget what the tenth ofa percent was on it.) and if your assailants on drugs it been recordedof officersputing whole clips into a person and not stoping them.

    and after you think of that, you have to think what if its a group like 3assailants. if the average is in between 3 to 4 shots. that means you only have enough for 2 ppl. and that's if you make every shot. if you miss 1 shot you beter hope your closer to the 3 shoots then the 4 shoots to end the threat.

    Thats my 2 cents worth
    The FBI huh?

    Im sure they took and evaluated shootings from police departments all over the country...which would be a pool of data filled largely with 9mm .40 .45 fired from Glocks, S&Ws, XDs, Berettas, and countless others

    and also alot of police officers pulling the triggers...some of the officers ive met have been amazing shooters but most have been just good enough at the qual to be able to even carry a gun...and If you ask them how often they shoot they will pretty much out right tell you that they shoot as often as there department requires them to. (Which isnt much at all)

    and if you ask them about there gun you might as well be asking about quantum physics..they more than often wont know @#$%.

    most of them (in my experiences) have become police officers for the work its self and the contribution they are able to make...they whernt looking to become ace shooters

    so what do we have here...

    conclusions drawn from a pool of data filled with every caliber under the sun, every gun make and model, and a Extremely mixed skill leveled shooters...


    To condemn a single pistol design based on that kind of study seems...ridiculous

    the 1911 is what it is...nothing more and nothing less.

    and what it is, is a highly accurate, hard hitting and outstandingly durable design

    If your a solid shooter that is willing to invest the time and training with a 1911, the 1911 is DEVASTATING...

    If your skilled with it, then the 1911 will allow you to dependably put heavy and hard hitting rounds exactly where you need to with the quickness in a way any other pistol design will have trouble comparing.

    but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and relatively low on board capacity... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick.


    While I have no problem with Glocks, XDs or anything else along those lines...
    for you to claim that a 1911 comes up short as a self defense pistol will leave you in a nice position to get disagreed with

    I could post quotes like this all day....


    "The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what
    a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now" - Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC



    CLINT SMITH ON THE 1911
    “The 1911 remains popular because it’s an efficient tool. In more than 30 years of experience,
    I’ve met more competent, serious gunmen who carry 1911’s than those who pack any other handgun.
    They are professionals – policemen, government agents and others who carry handguns daily because
    the know their live may depend on it…Me? I’ve carried a 1911 every single day for the past 20 years. "




    ok i give you credit on some of thatabout the police officers but i think what i said still stands for avid shooters. if you don't believe that from the FBI, try this. go find some ppl who have killed a person, and ask them if it was a 1 shot kill. i put money that majority of the ppl will state that it wasn't a one shot kill. there for ammo capacity does make a major role on a carry weapon which is a good reason to me to condemn as you put it. not saying you are going to agree. but i think that's a good reason for me to decide to condemn it. all your quotes and all your response is about how great the gun designed not once is their even a rebuttal about the mag size. to me you haven't said anything against my post besides the police article. but i actually wanting to find some info on that also on the civilian side.

    what i stated was about carry weapon, so as a carry weapon you not only have to take in the design of the weapon but if it can take on the duty, which i think that if you had more then one or two ppl you be out of ammo. i like my 1911 and your right it is accurate. but i also disagree i can make just as good of a group with my SA xd40, while you state others have a problem matching the 1911.the 1911is a well designed weapon minus the mag size. i meanwhy carry a 1911 with a smaller mag wheni can get mySA xd40 to shootjust as well, never hasjamed onme. and there been plenty of tests where a glock,xd, sigs all these double stackedmag choices instead of a 1911 were tested to see if it wouldnt shoot. theybeen driven over, dirt shoved in them and they still shot. so to me it has nothing on them from what iseen. i think quality wise it be hard for either side to say on is worse then the other side. so to me it comes down to, like i been saying, themag size.



    but seriously you prob should go check into seeing how many multi kills vs how many one shot kills are.i don't know if you just watched too much hollywood where a person shoots another guy and the guy goes flying backwards and is dead instantly or you haven't given it much thought at all. but you can do your poll from anything. you could go do convicts, ppl who had to defend themselves from assailants(using a pistol of course.i prob agree thatif a person is hit with 12 gauge at close proximity hewont be getting up after one shot.)and after you find out this, i think you find why mag size is a considerable reason why i think its not up to standards to carry.

  11. #11
    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    goalseter88 wrote:
    ItTakesAWolf wrote:
    goalseter88 wrote:
    i wouldn't if you are considering it as a carry gun. now if it was just for the range, i might. i believe a carry weapon that isnt a mouse gun(and i don't really recommend them unless that's all yourcomfortable with) should carry 10 rounds atleast.

    before i get a lot of replies saying that you shouldnt need more then the 8 round mag that the 1911 have if you know how to use it, this is my reasoning. iread over this study a guninstruder got from the fbi.it showed thattheaverageamounts of shootsused before the assailant ceased to be a threat wasinbetween3 to 4 shots. ( forget what the tenth ofa percent was on it.) and if your assailants on drugs it been recordedof officersputing whole clips into a person and not stoping them.

    and after you think of that, you have to think what if its a group like 3assailants. if the average is in between 3 to 4 shots. that means you only have enough for 2 ppl. and that's if you make every shot. if you miss 1 shot you beter hope your closer to the 3 shoots then the 4 shoots to end the threat.

    Thats my 2 cents worth
    The FBI huh?

    Im sure they took and evaluated shootings from police departments all over the country...which would be a pool of data filled largely with 9mm .40 .45 fired from Glocks, S&Ws, XDs, Berettas, and countless others

    and also alot of police officers pulling the triggers...some of the officers ive met have been amazing shooters but most have been just good enough at the qual to be able to even carry a gun...and If you ask them how often they shoot they will pretty much out right tell you that they shoot as often as there department requires them to. (Which isnt much at all)

    and if you ask them about there gun you might as well be asking about quantum physics..they more than often wont know @#$%.

    most of them (in my experiences) have become police officers for the work its self and the contribution they are able to make...they whernt looking to become ace shooters

    so what do we have here...

    conclusions drawn from a pool of data filled with every caliber under the sun, every gun make and model, and a Extremely mixed skill leveled shooters...


    To condemn a single pistol design based on that kind of study seems...ridiculous

    the 1911 is what it is...nothing more and nothing less.

    and what it is, is a highly accurate, hard hitting and outstandingly durable design

    If your a solid shooter that is willing to invest the time and training with a 1911, the 1911 is DEVASTATING...

    If your skilled with it, then the 1911 will allow you to dependably put heavy and hard hitting rounds exactly where you need to with the quickness in a way any other pistol design will have trouble comparing.

    but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and relatively low on board capacity... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick.


    While I have no problem with Glocks, XDs or anything else along those lines...
    for you to claim that a 1911 comes up short as a self defense pistol will leave you in a nice position to get disagreed with

    I could post quotes like this all day....


    "The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what
    a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now" - Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC



    CLINT SMITH ON THE 1911
    “The 1911 remains popular because it’s an efficient tool. In more than 30 years of experience,
    I’ve met more competent, serious gunmen who carry 1911’s than those who pack any other handgun.
    They are professionals – policemen, government agents and others who carry handguns daily because
    the know their live may depend on it…Me? I’ve carried a 1911 every single day for the past 20 years. "




    ok i give you credit on some of thatabout the police officers but i think what i said still stands for avid shooters. if you don't believe that from the FBI, try this. go find some ppl who have killed a person, and ask them if it was a 1 shot kill. i put money that majority of the ppl will state that it wasn't a one shot kill. there for ammo capacity does make a major role on a carry weapon which is a good reason to me to condemn as you put it. not saying you are going to agree. but i think that's a good reason for me to decide to condemn it. all your quotes and all your response is about how great the gun designed not once is their even a rebuttal about the mag size. to me you haven't said anything against my post besides the police article. but i actually wanting to find some info on that also on the civilian side.

    what i stated was about carry weapon, so as a carry weapon you not only have to take in the design of the weapon but if it can take on the duty, which i think that if you had more then one or two ppl you be out of ammo. i like my 1911 and your right it is accurate. but i also disagree i can make just as good of a group with my SA xd40, while you state others have a problem matching the 1911.the 1911is a well designed weapon minus the mag size. i meanwhy carry a 1911 with a smaller mag wheni can get mySA xd40 to shootjust as well, never hasjamed onme. and there been plenty of tests where a glock,xd, sigs all these double stackedmag choices instead of a 1911 were tested to see if it wouldnt shoot. theybeen driven over, dirt shoved in them and they still shot. so to me it has nothing on them from what iseen. i think quality wise it be hard for either side to say on is worse then the other side. so to me it comes down to, like i been saying, themag size.



    but seriously you prob should go check into seeing how many multi kills vs how many one shot kills are.i don't know if you just watched too much hollywood where a person shoots another guy and the guy goes flying backwards and is dead instantly or you haven't given it much thought at all. but you can do your poll from anything. you could go do convicts, ppl who had to defend themselves from assailants(using a pistol of course.i prob agree thatif a person is hit with 12 gauge at close proximity hewont be getting up after one shot.)and after you find out this, i think you find why mag size is a considerable reason why i think its not up to standards to carry.
    From my post...


    but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and >>>>>> relatively low on board capacity<<<<<<... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick.

    so apparently I did mention mag size...and you have no eye for detail.

    and I never one time said its a one shot killer.

    and even if you need more than 8+1 THATS WHAT EXTRA MAGS AND TRAINING ARE FOR!!!!!!

    95% of the best shooters ive ever met or shot with in my life have been die hard 1911 fanatics...I actually beg you to go to officers.com and look at the "firearms" forum and see that most of the experienced officers on there with a serious interest in guns and firearms training either carry a 1911 or wish there department would allow them to...

    go to 1911forum and see how many extremely experienced shooters there swear by em and wont carry anything else.

    not to mention all the top notch competitive shooters and government used professional firearms trainers that use 1911s exclusively

    Im not condemning anything...If I was than by default I would be claiming that all that carry that design are ignorant or just plain idiots...so its funny to hear you "condemn" a design like the 1911. *rolls eyes*



    " i think its not up to standards to carry." hhahahahahahahaha

    well you clearly have no idea how to set standards.









    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

  12. #12
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    lol you state all these experienced shooters carry 1911 etc. your right there are a lot of OLDER people who carry 1911. and thats easily explained. you guys were raised around the 1911. and you get raised thinking this is the best gun out there. so when you get old and an newer and better gun comes out ( like the double stack SA xdm with match grade barrels.) you already got it in your head that its not going to be better, just b/c you are use to the 1911. i bet the ppl your referring to are all at-least 40 years old guys who are stuck in their ways. i mean we all know younger ppl are more up for trying a new type of whatever, in this case guns. while older ppl dont want to learn new things when they think their older item is just fine. even if the new item can do the same thing with improvements over your older item. and second i sure i could also go on those forums and find officers also stating that they choose their glock or whatever non 1911 that they prefer. there always going to be a separation. we are never going to have everyone agree. especially when it comes from to the older guys and their generation and the new generation stuff starting to pop up. i mean it goes with anything. from guns to music to dance type to cloths. and yes i sure your going to reply that you got a buddy who young and carries a 1911. i not saying all ppl are older, i saying the majority.

    you stated:

    "but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and >>>>>> relatively low on board capacity<<<<<<... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick."

    but here where your wrong in that. you basically stated the only reason that gun wont hold enough ammo for you to do the job is if your inexperienced, clumsy or a bad shot.

    but unless you think all shots are going to be one shot kills, back to the statement that you only going to prob have enough shots for 2 ppl. and just in the past month i heard of over 3 different reports of intruders,would be robbers, and car thief attempts with 2 ppl. which you prob be ****** in these situations. i gone threw a couple of gun instructors and looked threw several other videos. and every single one says not to just shoot one shot. to shoot at-least 2 or 3 times then evaluate. and just b/c your go to the range and prat ice every week, doesn't even mean your experienced in being in a shootout. so all of you who carry those 1911 and haven't been in a shoot out are actually inexperienced in using it in a combat situation. the range shooting is not the same as a combat situation.so their for you said that guns a brick to a inexperienced person right?

    you state thats what an extra mag is for and training. but tell me what is faster. having a mag already in the gun that can old 19 rounds like the xdm 9mm or the 1911 having to change mags 2 times just to get 19 rounds threw the gun. but even still let me lower that since most likely you wont need that much. lets say the xdm40 which only holds 15 rounds, your still going to have to change mags 1 time with the 1911. and even if your fast. its not going to be faster then if you didnt have to change the mag at all. i like to see how you tell me its faster having to change a mag over not at all.

    so your stating thats not a good reason to set my standard as you put it higher. i put what defends my life at the highest standard possible to achieve. while yah there a good chance your not going to be attacked with more then 2 ppl. i dont just half ass my defence with only coming packed for 2 ppl. b/c that one second to change a mag might be your death. i mean if their wasn't a such thing as a double stack, yah it be good but why settle for inferior ammo size when you can get another gun that shoots just as good and has 2 times the ammo size.

    see i not even saying its a bad gun. i more stating its not up to some other guns with double stack mags. not to mention a true 1911 doesn't have a picinary rail which is not a big deal to me but that also is out of date for some ppl who like to carry a laser and/or flashlight.






  13. #13
    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    goalseter88 wrote:
    lol you state all these experienced shooters carry 1911 etc. your right there are a lot of OLDER people who carry 1911. and thats easily explained. you guys were raised around the 1911. and you get raised thinking this is the best gun out there. so when you get old and an newer and better gun comes out ( like the double stack SA xdm with match grade barrels.) you already got it in your head that its not going to be better, just b/c you are use to the 1911. i bet the ppl your referring to are all at-least 40 years old guys who are stuck in their ways. i mean we all know younger ppl are more up for trying a new type of whatever, in this case guns. while older ppl dont want to learn new things when they think their older item is just fine. even if the new item can do the same thing with improvements over your older item. and second i sure i could also go on those forums and find officers also stating that they choose their glock or whatever non 1911 that they prefer. there always going to be a separation. we are never going to have everyone agree. especially when it comes from to the older guys and their generation and the new generation stuff starting to pop up. i mean it goes with anything. from guns to music to dance type to cloths. and yes i sure your going to reply that you got a buddy who young and carries a 1911. i not saying all ppl are older, i saying the majority.

    you stated:

    "but on the other side, because of the 1911s weight, size, and >>>>>> relatively low on board capacity<<<<<<... if your inexperienced, clumsy or just not that good of a shooter...then the 1911 might as well be a brick."

    but here where your wrong in that. you basically stated the only reason that gun wont hold enough ammo for you to do the job is if your inexperienced, clumsy or a bad shot.

    but unless you think all shots are going to be one shot kills, back to the statement that you only going to prob have enough shots for 2 ppl. and just in the past month i heard of over 3 different reports of intruders,would be robbers, and car thief attempts with 2 ppl. which you prob be @#$%ed in these situations. i gone threw a couple of gun instructors and looked threw several other videos. and every single one says not to just shoot one shot. to shoot at-least 2 or 3 times then evaluate. and just b/c your go to the range and prat ice every week, doesn't even mean your experienced in being in a shootout. so all of you who carry those 1911 and haven't been in a shoot out are actually inexperienced in using it in a combat situation. the range shooting is not the same as a combat situation.so their for you said that guns a brick to a inexperienced person right?

    you state thats what an extra mag is for and training. but tell me what is faster. having a mag already in the gun that can old 19 rounds like the xdm 9mm or the 1911 having to change mags 2 times just to get 19 rounds threw the gun. but even still let me lower that since most likely you wont need that much. lets say the xdm40 which only holds 15 rounds, your still going to have to change mags 1 time with the 1911. and even if your fast. its not going to be faster then if you didnt have to change the mag at all. i like to see how you tell me its faster having to change a mag over not at all.

    so your stating thats not a good reason to set my standard as you put it higher. i put what defends my life at the highest standard possible to achieve. while yah there a good chance your not going to be attacked with more then 2 ppl. i dont just half ass my defence with only coming packed for 2 ppl. b/c that one second to change a mag might be your death. i mean if their wasn't a such thing as a double stack, yah it be good but why settle for inferior ammo size when you can get another gun that shoots just as good and has 2 times the ammo size.

    see i not even saying its a bad gun. i more stating its not up to some other guns with double stack mags. not to mention a true 1911 doesn't have a picinary rail which is not a big deal to me but that also is out of date for some ppl who like to carry a laser and/or flashlight.




    you keep talking about how there might be more than one attacker, so 8+1 isnt enough...

    Dude

    the gun earned its amazing reputation by keeping GIs alive through both world wars and many many other military conflicts...

    was there only one guy fighting them at a time?!?!?!?

    that gun has proven itself time and time again over the last 100 years. (can you say that about your XD .40?)

    The old apparently ignorant guys that are "stuck in there ways" that love the 1911 so much where in MANY firefights IN REAL WARS and when it was all over and they where shipping back they risked being punished by the government for theft of government property if they kept those pistols, but still brought those guns back with em and treated them with the respect those guns earned.

    Ive shot and owned many modern guns...and I have no problem with em, they are what they are...but my .45 colt 1911 and I have an understanding.

    you should check these out, hahahaha

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qplhkyBaWDA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHtsZ...eature=related











    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

  14. #14
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    My issue the 1911 and other single stack guns is really just one of capacity.

    Everyone talks about the one shot stop. It's turned out to be impossible to calculate a hard number simply because human willpower cannot be measured. What are the odds two hits will cause the attack to stop immediately? Three, four, or more? We cannot say "three hits will add x% chance to stop".

    What we can say is that there is an appreciable difference in probability (of unknown quantity) that multiple hits WILL stop the attack. The hits don't even have to be good; sometimes people will just give up for an almost inconsequential wound. Other attackers will seemingly shrug off multiple upper torso hits and last long enough to kill the shooter.

    We increase our odds of successfully fending off the attack by good shot placement, using quality ammunition with modern bullet construction, employing proven tactics and causing multiple wounds. None of these will guarantee the results you want.

    So, for me, the solution is not one of caliber, but instead of capacity and training. Odds are I will miss some shots regardless of the number of hours I spend in training. There is also a high probability that any event I am involved in will include two or more attackers--with varying degrees of determination to see the fight through.

    Does this mean I wouldn't use a 1911 or a revolver? Nope...I'd feel confident with either weapon. Are there guns that I would prefer to use over those? Yes...depending upon the circumstances. I LIKE having 15-19 rounds, especially if I run up against someone in armor. A six round group in the same area will defeat soft armor. It also means that six shot revolver is good for one bad guy. Even if you do "hearts and minds"...the revolver is only good for two bad guys with NO misses. The single stack 1911 has only 9 rounds or so (the 28 round STI guns are looking pretty good right about now). Jim Cirillo put it best when he said that during the fight, you'll wish for the biggest gun with the most ammunition possible.

    I CAN control capacity and the ammunition I use. I cannot control the fight. I can try to cause multiple wounds, but the bad guy gets a say in the matter. Most of these internet discussions seem to forget that little detail.
    Does anyone here actually believe that the Founders were sitting around in John Adams' tavern UNARMED because they believed a bar should be a gun free zone?

  15. #15
    Regular Member ItTakesAWolf's Avatar
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    230therapy wrote:

    Does this mean I wouldn't use a 1911 or a revolver? Nope...I'd feel confident with either weapon. Are there guns that I would prefer to use over those? Yes...depending upon the circumstances. I LIKE having 15-19 rounds, especially if I run up against someone in armor. A six round group in the same area will defeat soft armor. It also means that six shot revolver is good for one bad guy.
    hahahah ARMOR?!!??!?

    and im the one watching movies?


    OH NO!!! I cant seem to think of anything "funny" and/or "wise" to put in my forum signature...NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

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