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Thread: How is Open Carry in California?

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    I have been told that when you Open Carry in California, you can't have ammunition in the firearm. Is this true? If it is, are you Californians doing anything about it? No offense to your state, but what good is having it if you can't have ammo in it?

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    Regular Member Rich Keagy's Avatar
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    I agree with you insofar as revolvers go. Autos are another matter. It takes a few seconds (for me) to slip in a magazine and rack the slide. Sometimes just displaying a gun, loaded or not, can prevent crime.
    Now, I'm not defending California's laws, and we should be fighting this thing (the 'unloaded' part of CA's Open Carry legal landscape). California's legislators don't feel the populace can be trusted with guns for self defense.
    I think everyone is waiting for June and SCOTUS to announce its decision regarding McDonald vs. Chicago.
    I foresee a whole new slate of politicians appearing this November across our wonderful country, not just California.
    Rich Keagy
    www.esmeralda.cc

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    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
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    Yeah, Hollowpoint...if you just practice reload drills constantly you can get that draw and load down. One of the things I think people lose sight of is that the threat will not always be coming right at you, in your face style, so you have a little more time. 2.1 seconds is fantastic if the skills are present.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    Is this true? If it is, are you Californians doing anything about it?
    It's true, and no, nobody is doing anything about it.

    We have penal code 12031, also known as the Mulford Act, which prohibits carrying a loaded firearm within the limits of an incorporated city or any area of unincorporated territory where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm. It was signed into law by "pro-gun" Governor Ronald Reagan in 1968. The law was created to disarm minorities who were lawfully carrying loaded firearms to defend themselves against racist and violent police. To that effect, the guns worked quite well, and the police requested "legislative assistance" which was granted. We've all been disarmed for the last four decades because racist cops got a bunch of racist politicians to pass what basically amounts to a Jim Crow law. That's how we roll in California.

    Nobody is specifically doing anything about PC 12031, which is unconstitutional on its face; rather they are more concerned with getting shall-issue CCW permits which does nothing to address the fundamentals of the problem. PC 12031 is the primary problem, and PC 12025 (concealed carry law) and 626.9 (gun-free school zone) are the secondary problems. I will not be content until I can freely exercise my rights without having to first beg the government for a permission slip (there's a word for what that is; it's called a privilege).
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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    Is this true? If it is, are you Californians doing anything about it?
    It's true, and no, nobody is doing anything about it.

    We have penal code 12031, also known as the Mulford Act, which prohibits carrying a loaded firearm within the limits of an incorporated city or any area of unincorporated territory where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm. It was signed into law by "pro-gun" Governor Ronald Reagan in 1968. The law was created to disarm minorities who were lawfully carrying loaded firearms to defend themselves against racist and violent police. To that effect, the guns worked quite well, and the police requested "legislative assistance" which was granted. We've all been disarmed for the last four decades because racist cops got a bunch of racist politicians to pass what basically amounts to a Jim Crow law. That's how we roll in California.

    Nobody is specifically doing anything about PC 12031, which is unconstitutional on its face; rather they are more concerned with getting shall-issue CCW permits which does nothing to address the fundamentals of the problem. PC 12031 is the primary problem, and PC 12025 (concealed carry law) and 626.9 (gun-free school zone) are the secondary problems. I will not be content until I can freely exercise my rights without having to first beg the government for a permission slip (there's a word for what that is; it's called a privilege).
    Exactly. We no longer have "rights". When we must ask the government for permission, it's no longer a right. WHERE in the constitution does it say this?

    "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed as long as the government gives them permission first. A permit must be issued."

    I can't remember this being in there... oh yeah.... it's not!

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    OPS MARINE wrote:
    Yeah, Hollowpoint...if you just practice reload drills constantly you can get that draw and load down. One of the things I think people lose sight of is that the threat will not always be coming right at you, in your face style, so you have a little more time. 2.1 seconds is fantastic if the skills are present.
    I practice but it still seems a bit iffy...

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    if yo don't believe how fast you can load with practice, just watch the link



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkbE7...layer_embedded

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    Iopencarry wrote:
    if yo don't believe how fast you can load with practice, just watch the link

    That is amazing! I wasn't there so I don't know everything that happened in the video. I noticed him checking how to grab his gun before they did it. You won't get time like that in an emergency (more than likely you won't).

    Also, does he have any training. Anyone with enough skill can do something like that with practice, but depending on what is happening, will you have the frame of mind to be that fast? Do you know how many people freeze up in an encounter.

    Other than that, the video was amazing! Here is one even faster.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAFxgQmxbGI

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    We have penal code 12031, also known as the Mulford Act, which prohibits carrying a loaded firearm within the limits of an incorporated city or any area of unincorporated territory where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm. It was signed into law by "pro-gun" Governor Ronald Reagan in 1968. The law was created to disarm minorities who were lawfully carrying loaded firearms to defend themselves against racist and violent police. To that effect, the guns worked quite well, and the police requested "legislative assistance" which was granted. We've all been disarmed for the last four decades because racist cops got a bunch of racist politicians to pass what basically amounts to a Jim Crow law. That's how we roll in California.
    Until they teach this in school California doesn't get to claim any superiority to the deep south.

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    I was pulled over yesterday, and while talking with the cop about OC, he said you cannot have a loaded magazine on your person while carrying a gun. I asked him what about revolvers, he wasnt real sure, but he said if the bullets are on you, its considered being armed. Is he just bullsh*tting me so i wont carry a gun. Whats going on? I was thinking about printing out all the laws and everything, and then having the chief of police initial it or something, and carry it whenever I have my gun.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    derek_nuevo wrote:
    I was pulled over yesterday, and while talking with the cop about OC, he said you cannot have a loaded magazine on your person while carrying a gun. I asked him what about revolvers, he wasnt real sure, but he said if the bullets are on you, its considered being armed. Is he just bullsh*tting me so i wont carry a gun. Whats going on? I was thinking about printing out all the laws and everything, and then having the chief of police initial it or something, and carry it whenever I have my gun.
    If that is the case. You need to stand up and take action. We have the right to bare arms! If you don't bullets, why would you carry?

    It's another way to control us and we don't need to stand for it!

    A gun with no bullets is like a car with no engine. Why have it?

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    derek_nuevo wrote:
    I was pulled over yesterday, and while talking with the cop about OC, he said you cannot have a loaded magazine on your person while carrying a gun. I asked him what about revolvers, he wasnt real sure, but he said if the bullets are on you, its considered being armed. Is he just bullsh*tting me so i wont carry a gun. Whats going on? I was thinking about printing out all the laws and everything, and then having the chief of police initial it or something, and carry it whenever I have my gun.
    He was WRONG. You CAN have a loaded magazine, in it's own pouch. Just not IN the pistol, where the ammo is in a position to be fired.

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. That's ridiculous...if I have a gun, what in the hell do I have to be paranoid for."

    "You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

    If you believe in the 2nd Amendment, please forward. 'The true Soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' -G. K. Chesterton

    'I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. To which I said I did. She said, "Well, I certainly hope it isn't loaded!" To which I said, "of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets..." She then asked, "Are you that afraid of someone evil coming into your house?" My reply was, "No, not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching afire either, but I have fire extinguishers around and THEY ARE ALL LOADED."

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    Will you please edit and reduce the size of your text? It takes up a lot of space and is considered shouting online. Thank you! (good point though)

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I have been told that when you Open Carry in California, you can't have ammunition in the firearm. Is this true?
    Close, but not quite.

    It is prohibited to open carry while loaded in an incorporated city or in unincorporated territotry where discharge of a firearm is prohibited. By landmass, the overwhelming majority of CA it is possible to open carry while loaded.

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    mjones wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I have been told that when you Open Carry in California, you can't have ammunition in the firearm. Is this true?
    Close, but not quite.

    It is prohibited to open carry while loaded in an incorporated city or in unincorporated territotry where discharge of a firearm is prohibited. By landmass, the overwhelming majority of CA it is possible to open carry while loaded.
    So if you defend yourself and fire at a person within city limits, they could charge you with discharging a firearm in public, or something along those lines?

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    Holy crap people, there is an FAQ for crying out loud.

    http://caopencarry.blogspot.com/2009...carry-faq.html

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I have been told that when you Open Carry in California, you can't have ammunition in the firearm. Is this true?
    Close, but not quite.

    It is prohibited to open carry while loaded in an incorporated city or in unincorporated territotry where discharge of a firearm is prohibited. By landmass, the overwhelming majority of CA it is possible to open carry while loaded.
    So if you defend yourself and fire at a person within city limits, they could charge you with discharging a firearm in public, or something along those lines?
    Only if there is a statute against discharge without a self defense exemption. It wouldn't surprise me if most cities anywhere in the country has similar laws. But this is really a tangent to your question. You asked about loaded vs unloaded.

    The law with regard to loaded/unloaded is California Penal Code 12031. Here's a link if you want to check it out for yourself: http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisga...ction=retrieve

    There are several exemptions in there for within city limits...for example, its legal to load for immediate self defense 12031(j) or at your home/campsite 12031(l)

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    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
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    mjones wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    I have been told that when you Open Carry in California, you can't have ammunition in the firearm. Is this true?
    Close, but not quite.

    It is prohibited to open carry while loaded in an incorporated city or in unincorporated territotry where discharge of a firearm is prohibited. By landmass, the overwhelming majority of CA it is possible to open carry while loaded.
    So if you defend yourself and fire at a person within city limits, they could charge you with discharging a firearm in public, or something along those lines?
    Only if there is a statute against discharge without a self defense exemption. It wouldn't surprise me if most cities anywhere in the country has similar laws. But this is really a tangent to your question. You asked about loaded vs unloaded.

    The law with regard to loaded/unloaded is California Penal Code 12031. Here's a link if you want to check it out for yourself: http://leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisga...ction=retrieve

    There are several exemptions in there for within city limits...for example, its legal to load for immediate self defense 12031(j) or at your home/campsite 12031(l)
    That's a lot of reading. I scanned through but I'll read it throughout the next couple days. Thanx for the help!

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    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    Hollowpoint38 wrote:
    That's a lot of reading. I scanned through but I'll read it throughout the next couple days. Thanx for the help!
    Ya, learning the firearms laws in CA seems like a HUGE task at first, but most people grasp it pretty well within a few months of research, questions and answers.

    With regard to Open Carry in CA - I would highly recommend you take a looks at http://californiaopencarry.org/for lots of details, case law, etc

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    derek_nuevo wrote:
    I was pulled over yesterday, and while talking with the cop about OC, he said you cannot have a loaded magazine on your person while carrying a gun. I asked him what about revolvers, he wasnt real sure, but he said if the bullets are on you, its considered being armed. Is he just bullsh*tting me so i wont carry a gun. Whats going on? I was thinking about printing out all the laws and everything, and then having the chief of police initial it or something, and carry it whenever I have my gun.
    This officer is obviously confusing you with a criminal.

    If you have the intent to commit a felony, then under PC 12023 and 12001(i), you can't have a gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    If you are visiting the State Capitol grounds or the offices of the legislature, then under PC 171e you can't have the gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    If you are at a gun show, then under PC 12071.4you can't have the gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    These are about the only times when having a gun, and having ammunition for that gun on your person at the same time meets the legal definition of "a loaded gun".

    This can be easily overcome by carrying the gun, and having your wife/girlfriend/etc carry the ammo.

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    Regular Member PincheOgro1's Avatar
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    Decoligny wrote:
    derek_nuevo wrote:
    I was pulled over yesterday, and while talking with the cop about OC, he said you cannot have a loaded magazine on your person while carrying a gun. I asked him what about revolvers, he wasnt real sure, but he said if the bullets are on you, its considered being armed. Is he just bullsh*tting me so i wont carry a gun. Whats going on? I was thinking about printing out all the laws and everything, and then having the chief of police initial it or something, and carry it whenever I have my gun.
    This officer is obviously confusing you with a criminal.

    If you have the intent to commit a felony, then under PC 12023 and 12001(i), you can't have a gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    If you are visiting the State Capitol grounds or the offices of the legislature, then under PC 171e you can't have the gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    If you are at a gun show, then under PC 12071.4you can't have the gun, and the ammo for that gun in the immediate possession of the same person.

    These are about the only times when having a gun, and having ammunition for that gun on your person at the same time meets the legal definition of "a loaded gun".

    This can be easily overcome by carrying the gun, and having your wife/girlfriend/etc carry the ammo.
    This is what we (wife and I) did at the gun show we went to. I paid for 250 rounds and she carried it in a backpack all day.

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    Ca Patriot wrote:
    You can have ammo in a magazine on your persons. I have timed myself and I am draw and load in 2.1 seconds. That would be very useful is many situations.
    I think I'm pretty fast also, *however* I find it a little difficult in ejecting the mag in my G19. Is there a trick to getting the mag to eject easier and faster? I have to really put pressure on the eject button. Are all ejectors this hard? Can they be adjusted in any way to make them softer? I don't have huge hands, so that might be the problem. Plus I'm old as the hills! In any case, I take about 3.5 seconds.



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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    Ca Patriot wrote:
    You can have ammo in a magazine on your persons.** I have timed myself and I am draw and load in 2.1 seconds.** That would be very useful is many situations.*
    I think I'm pretty fast also, *however* I find it a little difficult in ejecting the mag in my G19.* Is there a trick to getting the mag to eject easier and faster?* I have to really put pressure on the eject button.* Are all ejectors this hard?* Can they be adjusted in any way to make them softer?* I don't have huge hands, so that might be the problem.* Plus I'm old as the hills!* In any case, I take about 3.5 seconds.

    *
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    Let's see here:
    You're walking along, minding your own business.
    A couple of rough looking guys walk up, demand your money or they'll shoot you.

    That means they are what is known as 'criminals', and criminals are exempt from the Unloaded Carry laws.
    Exempt because they don't give a about your silly laws.

    So, can you figure out how to draw and load your gun without them seeing or suspecting anything? That's your only choice, other than to just hand over your money, wife, and whatever else they decide they want.

    Because if they see you draw a gun, and they have one too, guess who gets the first chance to pull the trigger. The one with the loaded gun who already has his finger on the trigger, or you, with the not-yet-loaded gun?

    If they see you draw a gun, and they came with no gun, they can now get one. Yours. They don't even have to worry about getting shot, since yours is unloaded.

    Get yourself a t-shirt that says "Andy's Plumbing" on the back, and carry a length of lead pipe. Better than an unloaded gun.

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