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Would a NON-CPL Holder be able to carry a Muzzle loading Pistol W/O a Primer Inserted

Is a Muzzle loader considered a Firearm

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

wally1120

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
693
Location
Jackson, Michigan, USA
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I am currently a NON-CPL Holder, And Crime is staring to get a little worked up around my area. I have now considered looking into buying a Muzzle Loading Pistol, And just having the Powder Charged/Bullet Seated, But not have a Primer Inserted, while I am in a Vehicle But having readily access to the Primer. Is this Lawful to do as a NON-CPL Holder?, Or is this another "GREY AREA"?

I am hoping that this idea is Lawful for a NON-CPL Holder, I really hate Gun Laws. And I am starting to get a little concerned with the direction Jackson is heading, And I would feel VERY COMFORTABLE having a CPL, W/ 2 45`s hanging off of my Hip, Rather then depending on a Muzzle loader.
 

1245A Defender

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
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4,365
Location
north mason county, Washington, USA
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maybe im confused!! cant you OC in michigan at age 18??
and to answer the black powder gun is going to be a firearm whether it is primed or not!
many states have an exemption for antique and or reproduction guns..
 

zigziggityzoo

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
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1,543
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
imported post

You can OC anything without a CPL, subject to the normal limitations.

You MAY NOT CONCEAL IT, as it's still considered a FIREARM in Michigan. If it's under 30", it's also considered a PISTOL in MI, at least for 750.227's purposes (CCW).
 

SpringerXDacp

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May 12, 2006
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Burton, Michigan
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I agree with Ziggy, the muzzle loading pistol is still subject to conceal carry laws in Michigan. The only difference now is that the pistol is no longer subject to License To Purchase or a CPL to purchase the pistol. Therefore, no registration is required (Janet Kukuk Act).
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
imported post

Yooperlady and I were just discussing my buying a western gunbelt with double holsters... and my carrying my brace of Colt Navy black powder replica pistols .. one on each hip... with cylinders, except the ones under the hammers, fully loaded.

Why? Well........ aside from it being perfectly legal to do.....

Since I always dress in black shirt and black jeans all I'd need is black cowboy boots and a black hat............ and I could sorta look like Pallidin!!!! Maybe I could even print up some business cards that said "Have gun, Will carry"....

Wooooo Hoooo!!! :D:celebrate:celebrate:D

But if I ever do decide to do that I'd also carry my Glock 26 concealed just to have at least one truly reliable gun on me.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... time to delve into the budget and try to squeeze out enough money........
 

SpringerXDacp

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May 12, 2006
Messages
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Burton, Michigan
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wally1120 wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
? why ?

Whats your point, I mean why not carry a semi auto?
I am a NON-CPL Holder, So I am not able to carry my 45`s in a vehicle.
Wally, you can not carry a loaded, muzzle loading pistol in your vehicle either. All conceal carry laws apply to the pistol regardless.
 

wally1120

Regular Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
693
Location
Jackson, Michigan, USA
imported post

Savage.Detroit wrote:
Would a NON-CPL Holder be able to carry a Muzzle loading Pistol W/O a Primer Inserted

Why would you want to?

I want to carry a Muzzleloading Pistol W/ Me because crime in my area is starting to pick up, And I don`t have a CPL to carry my 45`s that I would prefer to carry.


And I would feel VERY COMFORTABLE having a CPL, W/ 2 45`s hanging off of my Hip, Rather then depending on a Muzzle loader.

Ok, so Open Carry the 45s w/o a CPL.

I do OC the 45`s where I am capable of going with them, But I am looking for something that I can LEGALLY carry in a Vehicle.
 
B

Bikenut

Guest
imported post

Edited post............

I see my tongue in cheek post above about looking like Pallidin went over like a lead balloon so I'll get serious...:(

From:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28tncbot45cpgx0cinwovszx3r%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-227


THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
Sec. 227.
(1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.

From:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28bzevzgf02y3apa2sl0yjhd3x%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-231a


THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 328 of 1931

750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.Sec. 231a.
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.


(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section:


(a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:


(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.


(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


(b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:


(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.


(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.


(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.


(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.


(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.


(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.


(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.



Therefore it certainly seems to me a cap and ball black powder pistol still must be unloaded during transport... and the presence of powder and ball in the cylinder/chamber would certainly satisfy the definition of "loaded" then it would be illegal to transport a cap and ball pistol with loaded cylinder/chamber even though the percussion cap was not also "loaded".

I apologize for the earlier example of my weak grasshopper "google fu".........
 

American Sheepdog

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
148
Location
Alpena, Michigan, USA
imported post

Hey brother...God bless you! You can absolutely carry any pistol (registered) at age 18 without a ccw permit. I do not have a ccw permit and I walk right into city hall with my iron for all to see. Not even the police chief had anything to say about it.
Thomas Matos,
Candidate for Lt. Governor of Michigan
Campaign to elect Stacey mathia for Governor of Michigan
Michigan Tax Payers Party
 

American Sheepdog

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
148
Location
Alpena, Michigan, USA
imported post

The mere act of lawfully Open Carrying a handgun without a CPL proves that the CPL requirement is completely unnecessary to begin with. Your handgun is already registered. You already had a background check. All a CPL does is create another bureaucracy that allows those with the money to have the priviledge to exercize what is already a right. Last time I checked, poor people were not exempt from exercizing their right to bear arms.
Thomas Matos,
Candidate, LT.Governor of Michigan
 
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