View Poll Results: Is a Muzzle loader considered a Firearm

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    10 90.91%
  • No

    1 9.09%
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Would a NON-CPL Holder be able to carry a Muzzle loading Pistol W/O a Primer Inserted

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    692

    Post imported post

    I am currently a NON-CPL Holder, And Crime is staring to get a little worked up around my area. I have now considered looking into buying a Muzzle Loading Pistol, And just having the Powder Charged/Bullet Seated, But not have a Primer Inserted, while I am in a Vehicle But having readily access to the Primer. Is this Lawful to do as a NON-CPL Holder?, Or is this another "GREY AREA"?

    I am hoping that this idea is Lawful for a NON-CPL Holder, I really hate Gun Laws. And I am starting to get a little concerned with the direction Jackson is heading, And I would feel VERY COMFORTABLE having a CPL, W/ 2 45`s hanging off of my Hip, Rather then depending on a Muzzle loader.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    ? why ?

    Whats your point, I mean why not carry a semi auto?

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southwest Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    151

    Post imported post

    Would a NON-CPL Holder be able to carry a Muzzle loading Pistol W/O a Primer Inserted
    Why would you want to?


    And I would feel VERY COMFORTABLE having a CPL, W/ 2 45`s hanging off of my Hip, Rather then depending on a Muzzle loader.
    Ok, so Open Carry the 45s w/o a CPL.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    north mason county, Washington, USA
    Posts
    4,381

    Post imported post

    maybe im confused!! cant you OC in michigan at age 18??
    and to answer the black powder gun is going to be a firearm whether it is primed or not!
    many states have an exemption for antique and or reproduction guns..
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Southwest Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    151

    Post imported post

    Yes, you can OC at age 18.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Post imported post

    You can OC anything without a CPL, subject to the normal limitations.

    You MAY NOT CONCEAL IT, as it's still considered a FIREARM in Michigan. If it's under 30", it's also considered a PISTOL in MI, at least for 750.227's purposes (CCW).

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    I agree with Ziggy, the muzzle loading pistol is still subject to conceal carry laws in Michigan. The only difference now is that the pistol is no longer subject to License To Purchase or a CPL to purchase the pistol. Therefore, no registration is required (Janet Kukuk Act).

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    Yooperlady and I were just discussing my buying a western gunbelt with double holsters... and my carrying my brace of Colt Navy black powder replica pistols .. one on each hip... with cylinders, except the ones under the hammers, fully loaded.

    Why? Well........ aside from it being perfectly legal to do.....

    Since I always dress in black shirt and black jeans all I'd need is black cowboy boots and a black hat............ and I could sorta look like Pallidin!!!! Maybe I could even print up some business cards that said "Have gun, Will carry"....

    Wooooo Hoooo!!! :celebrate:celebrate

    But if I ever do decide to do that I'd also carry my Glock 26 concealed just to have at least one truly reliable gun on me.

    Hmmmmmmmmmm.... time to delve into the budget and try to squeeze out enough money........


    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    692

    Post imported post

    stainless1911 wrote:
    ? why ?

    Whats your point, I mean why not carry a semi auto?
    I am a NON-CPL Holder, So I am not able to carry my 45`s in a vehicle.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    wally1120 wrote:
    stainless1911 wrote:
    ? why ?

    Whats your point, I mean why not carry a semi auto?
    I am a NON-CPL Holder, So I am not able to carry my 45`s in a vehicle.
    Wally, you can not carry a loaded, muzzle loading pistol in your vehicle either. All conceal carry laws apply to the pistol regardless.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    692

    Post imported post

    Savage.Detroit wrote:
    Would a NON-CPL Holder be able to carry a Muzzle loading Pistol W/O a Primer Inserted
    Why would you want to?

    I want to carry a Muzzleloading Pistol W/ Me because crime in my area is starting to pick up, And I don`t have a CPL to carry my 45`s that I would prefer to carry.


    And I would feel VERY COMFORTABLE having a CPL, W/ 2 45`s hanging off of my Hip, Rather then depending on a Muzzle loader.
    Ok, so Open Carry the 45s w/o a CPL.

    I do OC the 45`s where I am capable of going with them, But I am looking for something that I can LEGALLY carry in a Vehicle.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    Edited post............

    I see my tongue in cheek post above about looking like Pallidin went over like a lead balloon so I'll get serious...

    From:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...me=mcl-750-227


    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
    Sec. 227.
    (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.
    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00.

    From:

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...e=mcl-750-231a


    THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE (EXCERPT)
    Act 328 of 1931

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.Sec. 231a.
    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.


    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (2) As used in this section:


    (a) "Antique firearm" means either of the following:


    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.


    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


    (b) "Lawful purpose" includes the following:


    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.


    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.


    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.


    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.


    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.


    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.


    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.



    Therefore it certainly seems to me a cap and ball black powder pistol still must be unloaded during transport... and the presence of powder and ball in the cylinder/chamber would certainly satisfy the definition of "loaded" then it would be illegal to transport a cap and ball pistol with loaded cylinder/chamber even though the percussion cap was not also "loaded".

    I apologize for the earlier example of my weak grasshopper "google fu".........
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    Hey brother...God bless you! You can absolutely carry any pistol (registered) at age 18 without a ccw permit. I do not have a ccw permit and I walk right into city hall with my iron for all to see. Not even the police chief had anything to say about it.
    Thomas Matos,
    Candidate for Lt. Governor of Michigan
    Campaign to elect Stacey mathia for Governor of Michigan
    Michigan Tax Payers Party


  14. #14
    Regular Member kyleplusitunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Lennon Michigan, ,
    Posts
    533

    Post imported post

    just out of curiousity op, why don't you have a cpl?

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Jackson, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    692

    Post imported post

    kyleplusitunes wrote:
    just out of curiousity op, why don't you have a cpl?
    Im only 20

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Alpena, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    148

    Post imported post

    The mere act of lawfully Open Carrying a handgun without a CPL proves that the CPL requirement is completely unnecessary to begin with. Your handgun is already registered. You already had a background check. All a CPL does is create another bureaucracy that allows those with the money to have the priviledge to exercize what is already a right. Last time I checked, poor people were not exempt from exercizing their right to bear arms.
    Thomas Matos,
    Candidate, LT.Governor of Michigan

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •