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Thread: Texan to visit Wyoming needs help.

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    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    I am taking a vacation in June and I'm bringing my "Sidearm". My wife too!
    2 Questions:
    1. Can you OC in the Yellowstone Park? I have a CCW from Texas and I can do it that way too.
    2. If I CCW and want to go to a restaurant that serves alcohol as well as food, do I leave the firearm in the car? I know you don't go to a bar carrying. Is having a wine with your meal Vorboten?

    Would love to carry there, just want to do it right. Any links would be helpful.

    GaryAdrian
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    GaryAdrian wrote:
    I am taking a vacation in June and I'm bringing my "Sidearm". My wife too!
    2 Questions:
    1. Can you OC in the Yellowstone Park? I have a CCW from Texas and I can do it that way too.
    2. If I CCW and want to go to a restaurant that serves alcohol as well as food, do I leave the firearm in the car? I know you don't go to a bar carrying. Is having a wine with your meal Vorboten?

    Would love to carry there, just want to do it right. Any links would be helpful.

    GaryAdrian
    It is always best to research the laws personally; however, generally:

    1) New NPS rules effective 2/22/10 - carry legal in accordance with the laws of the state in which the park is located.
    http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/rules.htm

    2) Montana recognizes Texas CHL
    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis...eciprocity.htm

    3) I don't know the present status of potential changes effecting this - on going now.
    Someone else will need to update you.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    Your reading is in error - the link provided states:

    Carry In State Parks/State & National Forests/WMA/Road Side Rest Areas

    Carry Allowed in these Areas:

    State Parks: YES CRS 18-12-214.

    State/National Forests: YES CRS 18-12-214.

    WMA’s: YES CRS 18-12-214.

    Road Side Rest Areas: YES

    [line]
    FIREARMS IN PARKS
    As ofFebruary 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

    The Credit Card Accountability Responsibility and Disclosure Act of 2009, was enacted May 22, 2009 and will become effective February 22, 2010. Section 512 of this law; Protecting Americans from Violent Crimes, supersedes the uniform treatment of firearm possession in the national park system outside Alaska under the regulations found at 36 C.F.R. 2.4.

    It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. Yellowstone encompasses parts of Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. Each state has different regulations and these are listed below.

    Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park (such as visitor centers, government offices, etc.); those places are marked with signs at all public entrances. Hunting and discharge of firearms remain prohibited in Yellowstone National Park.

    Firearmsshould not be considered a wildlife protection strategy. Bear spray and other safety precautions are the proven methods for preventing bear and other wildlife interactions.

    http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/rules.htm

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    GaryAdrian wrote:
    2. If I CCW and want to go to a restaurant that serves alcohol as well as food, do I leave the firearm in the car? I know you don't go to a bar carrying. Is having a wine with your meal Vorboten?
    You may not conceal in the portion of an establishment that is primarily devoted to the sale of alcohol for consumption on premises. Consider an Applebees. You may not conceal in the bar area. You may conceal everywhere else in the restaurant.

    There are no laws prohibiting drinking while carrying. WY CHP holders can lose their permit if they are convicted of an alcohol related offense, e.g., DUI, while carrying.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    Grapeshot is correct. Open Carry is definitely allowed in Yellowstone.

    http://www.nps.gov/yell/parkmgmt/lawsandpolicies.htm:

    WYOMING:

    Open Carry Allowed
    Handgun = Yes
    Rifle = Yes
    In Vehicle = Yes
    Age Requirement = None

    ConcealedCarry Allowed -Permit Required
    Person = Yes
    Vehicle = Yes
    State Reciprocity = 23 states
    Age Requirement = 21 years of age

    MONTANA:
    Open Carry Allowed
    Handgun= Yes
    Rifle = Yes
    In Vehicle = Yes
    Age Requirement = 14

    Concealed Carry Allowed - Permit Required
    Person = Yes
    Vehicle = Yes
    State Reciprocity = 40 States
    Age Requirement = 18

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    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    Thanks Guys.
    I had a nice phone chat with the Asst Atty. General last Friday on Montana Laws.
    It's the same as Wyoming. No carry in a eatery that serves alcohol.

    Thanks for the advice.
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    GaryAdrian wrote:
    It's the same as Wyoming. No carry in a eatery that serves alcohol.
    Montana laws are different from Wyoming.

    As you pointed out, in MT it is illegal to carry concealed anywhere in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Doing so is not illegal in WY. It is only illegal to carry concealed in the bar portion of a restaurant.

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    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    I just got an Email from Mark Spungin, President Wyoming State Shooting Association.
    He says, :

    "Gary, Primarily devoted means responsible for more than 50% of sales. If you are CCW, not drinking and are seated in the restaurant section of the establishment you are ok. Actually, there are no restrictions on open carry in bars even if you choose to have a drink. Every state seems to interpret this a little differently. In Nebraska you are not supposed to enter (while CCW) a convenience store that just sells beer for off-purpose consumption. Enjoy your trip to Wyoming. Yours in Liberty, Mark"

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    GaryAdrian wrote:
    I just got an Email from Mark Spungin, President Wyoming State Shooting Association.
    He says, :

    "Gary, Primarily devoted means responsible for more than 50% of sales. If you are CCW, not drinking and are seated in the restaurant section of the establishment you are ok.
    Okay, I stand corrected... sort of... I guess... or not? I know Mark and will ask him about this, he should know as he helped craft the original legislation. I'm also curious to hear what my CC instructor has to say, because he contributed to my misunderstanding. Ultimately I guess what matters is what our AG has to say.

    Still, after re-reading the relevant section of the WY State Code, I have come to the conclusion that this is confusing as all get out.

    Does this mean that you are not allowed to carry in any restaurant that has a bar? This is how the code reads: "Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic liquor and malt beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;"

    Or are you not allowed to carry in a restaurant that derives 50%+ of it's sales from alcohol? First I've heard of this in WY... this is how Texas works. And nothing along these lines is mentioned in the statue. Furthermore, this is exactly why in Texas they have to put up those red 51% signs. Otherwise, how are you supposed to know how much alcohol a place sells.

    Then again, Mark's statement regarding sitting in the restaurant section being ok leads me to believe that he also interprets the law similar to how I have.

    This is still different then MT where you can't carry if the restaurant serves any alcohol. Sucks, but at least it's clear what the rules are.

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    Regular Member AB's Avatar
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    As always, if one is going to state anything as law on this forum, even from the AG, it should include the Statute.

    In this case there is no statute on OC.

    It's obvious if one decides to go into a bar to get tanked it will bring objections, but there is no law on open-carrying in bar, Period.

    Wyoming Gun Laws
    http://wyominggunowners.org/wyoming-gun-laws/

    WyGO - Wyoming Gun Owners
    Wyoming's Only No-Compromise Gun Rights Organization
    http://wyominggunowners.org/




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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    AB wrote:
    As always, if one is going to state anything as law on this forum, even from the AG, it should include the Statute.

    In this case there is no statute on OC.

    It's obvious if one decides to go into a bar to get tanked it will bring objections, but there is no law on open-carrying in bar, Period.

    Wyoming Gun Laws
    http://wyominggunowners.org/wyoming-gun-laws/

    WyGO - Wyoming Gun Owners
    Wyoming's Only No-Compromise Gun Rights Organization
    http://wyominggunowners.org/
    OT a bit, but worth noting - similar in Va.

    No statute making OC illegal; therefore it is legal - and you can drink while OCing - not considered good form, but you may do so.

    This will be UNCHANGED by a new law that will go into effect 7/1/10 and will permit CC in places that serve alcohol, but you cannot legally drink.

    So OC = alcohol OK; CC = alcohol illegal unless you are one of the elite LEOs or Commonwealth Attorneys then you have multiple choice and can indulge.

    Hope this makes more sense to somebody else than it does me.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    I guess then by your statement the Park Rangerof the Ozark National Scenic Riverways in MO was in error when he stated in an email that effective Feb 22, 2010 open carry would be legal in that National Park but since it is unusual expect that someone would complain about it and expect a visit from a Ranger just as a precaution.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    I guess I was lucky not to be arrested 2 weeks ago at the Grand Canyon and Zion NP.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Orphan wrote:
    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    I guess I was lucky not to be arrested 2 weeks ago at the Grand Canyon and Zion NP.
    Correct, you were lucky the Park Rangers did not know the law, or nobody reported a "man with a gun" and a ranger who knows the laws responded.

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    9026543 wrote:
    Mjolnir wrote:
    No open carry in Yellowstone or any NP.

    Check out http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    I guess then by your statement the Park Rangerof the Ozark National Scenic Riverways in MO was in error when he stated in an email that effective Feb 22, 2010 open carry would be legal in that National Park but since it is unusual expect that someone would complain about it and expect a visit from a Ranger just as a precaution.
    Again correct, the Park Ranger was not aware of what is legal and what is not legal. Look into the law and how it is written yourself and see what you read & do not take the word of a LEO as always 100% correct.

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    Mjolnir wrote:
    Again correct, the Park Ranger was not aware of what is legal and what is not legal. Look into the law and how it is written yourself and see what you read & do not take the word of a LEO as always 100% correct.
    The OLD rule put in place by GW that was struck down required a permit and to conceal. The current LAW simply defers to the laws of the state.


    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:6:./temp/~c111NZGkMO:e87019:


    SEC. 512. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.
    • (b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--
      • (1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
      • (2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

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    Thanks Kingfish, it helpswhen you have done your research before before you type.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    I just wanted to thank everybody here for their help and let you know I have just became a member of the Wyoming State Shooting Association.
    I also got a membership for Montana as well.
    I am going to enjoy my beautiful vacation in Wyoming and Montana.

    Yellowstone here we come.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    GaryAdrian wrote:
    I just wanted to thank everybody here for their help and let you know I have just became a member of the Wyoming State Shooting Association.
    I also got a membership for Montana as well.
    I am going to enjoy my beautiful vacation in Wyoming and Montana.

    Yellowstone here we come.
    Enjoy and pictures please.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    GaryAdrian wrote:
    I just wanted to thank everybody here for their help and let you know I have just became a member of the Wyoming State Shooting Association.
    I also got a membership for Montana as well.
    I am going to enjoy my beautiful vacation in Wyoming and Montana.

    Yellowstone here we come.
    Enjoy and pictures please.

    Yata hey
    Thank you.
    I intend to Be still and let the earth speak to me.
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    Your going to the wrong place then, Iceland is where Earth is currentlyspeaking, LOL
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Gary;

    When in June will you be in Wyoming and what part?

    There are some activities planned around open carrying for Independence day in Jackson and the parks north of there. I will be there late June and early July and if our paths cross, perhaps we could at least say howdy.

    Burtonsville Bob

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    Regular Member GaryAdrian's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'd like that...but.
    I will be in Montana and Wyoming in the last of May. Hoping for good weather.
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    One more thing about Montana:

    1. Montana allows Local Firearm Bans in some Public Places, which is allowed under State Preemption Law, as indicated:

    45-8-351. Restriction on local government regulation of firearms. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), no county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit may prohibit, register, tax, license, or regulate the purchase, sale or other transfer (including delay in purchase, sale, or other transfer), ownership, possession, transportation, use, or unconcealed carrying of any weapon, including a rifle, shotgun, handgun, or concealed handgun.
    (2) (a) For public safety purposes, a city or town may regulate the discharge of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. A county, city, town, consolidated local government, or other local government unit has power to prevent and suppress the carrying of concealed or unconcealed weapons to a public assembly, publicly owned building, park under its jurisdiction, or school, and the possession of firearms by convicted felons, adjudicated mental incompetents, illegal aliens, and minors.
    (b) Nothing contained herein shall allow any government to prohibit the legitimate display of firearms at shows or other public occasions by collectors and others, nor shall anything contained herein prohibit the legitimate transportation of firearms through any jurisdiction, whether in airports or otherwise.

    History: En. Sec. 1, Ch. 589, L. 1985; amd. Sec. 11, Ch. 759, L. 1991.

    Wyoming, however, does not allow this.

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