• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Certified Idiot

TOF

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
443
Location
Happy Jack, Arizona, USA
imported post

slowfiveoh wrote:
PT111,

I think the majority of us feel that if he had not handled the gun, there would have been absolutely no reason to harass him.

The act that would have me watching him at a minimum, is the constant obsession with fiddling with it.

Removing the magazine, then racking the slide? I mean really?

We aren't talkin about an AD while the gun was solidly holstered. The guy was messing with it.

I think the majority of us would be in agreement that you do the "manipulation" prior to entering society. Then you only "mess with it" if you intend to use it.
For those that didn't see the video on TV. This jerk was pulling the gun out of the holster off and on and waving it around as he wandered through the store. His actions were bizarre whether he had a gun or not. He had previously been in training to become a prison guard but for some reason flunked or was booted out. (you think) His shirt had a Prison patch on one shoulder. He had to know what he was doing was wrong and would draw attention from law enforcement. This was not simply fiddling with the gun it was big time brandishing.

His actions would have caused me to exit the store immediately fully prepared to draw mine while watching his every move.
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

Sounds pretty heavy. Can you give me a link to the video?

Sounds like that guy was definitely outside of his head.
 

GWbiker

Guest
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
958
Location
USA
imported post

Phoenix media is getting lot's of mileage from this incident. Probably will have effect on Governor's decision to sign Constitutional carry bill.

That S.O.B. in Wallmart might undo everything AZCDL members worked hard for past year....:cuss:
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

That guy,...wow,....what an absolute moron.

--Tried to break into the video games case.
--Went behind the electronics desk, to the employee side and was clearly doing something suspicious behind it.
--Pulled his pistol for what reason?
--Pressed the magazine release for what reason?


This guy is a grade A moron.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

slowfiveoh wrote:
That guy,...wow,....what an absolute moron.

--Tried to break into the video games case.
--Went behind the electronics desk, to the employee side and was clearly doing something suspicious behind it.
--Pulled his pistol for what reason?
--Pressed the magazine release for what reason?


This guy is a grade A moron.

On drugs?

History of mental problems?

His behavior is too far out there. Something else is going on.
 

slowfiveoh

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,415
Location
Richmond, VA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
On drugs?

History of mental problems?

His behavior is too far out there. Something else is going on.
Absolutely agreed.

The only other thing I can think of, is that he cowered out of his genuinely criminal intent.

Perhaps he was intent to get what he wanted, when he wanted it, and when he couldn't (Get the case open + find the keys behind the counter), he decided to draw. Then he accidentally drops the magazine and in replacing it, discharges the weapon, and decides "Oh crap this isn't for me, I can't do this!".

Tons of supposition in there, and I could be way off and admit that freely.

Still, speculation about this guys intent is sure to abound for a long time.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

slowfiveoh wrote:
Citizen wrote:
On drugs?

History of mental problems?

His behavior is too far out there. Something else is going on.
Absolutely agreed.

The only other thing I can think of, is that he cowered out of his genuinely criminal intent.
I recall an NRA instructor who told me that he bounced from his CCW permit classes any student who showed a dangerous attitude. He gave the example of onestudent, an adult male, who actually fondled and stroked the gun provided bythe instructor for students to practice safe handling techniques. The instructor mimicked the weirdo's fondling and his expression--it was pretty creepy. So, I guess fear (like the anti-s)and a sense of security are not the only emotional responses that can be derived from a gun.

Or maybe it was a sense of security. Maybe handling his gun was his security blanket in the moments of embarrassment at being caught behind the counter.

It would be really interesting to see what his student record from the Dept of Corrections academy says about him not graduating from the academy.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

Anybody want to bet this guy works for the Bradys?

I've got $100 that says this is a False Flag event. Even the supposition doesn't add up.

This guy is an act. It's the only shoe that fits.

I'll even go so far as to say, this is a deliberate and orchestrated attempt to garner the Governor's Veto of 1108.

Being drunk or on drugs doesn't make one engage in clearly deliberate, organized behaviors.

He's the perfect patsy. Some douche who wanted to be a LEO for all the wrong reasons, didn't get his dream, and now he wants to mess up other people's dreams. Brady's give him a call, he's more than happy to oblige...
 

protector84

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
624
Location
Arizona, U.S.
imported post

This guy could well be a plant to try to stop the governor from signing this bill. Everyone seemed to think I was being paranoid when I posted a thread many months (if not a year ago) about paying attention at OC events. All we would need is some Brady plant to come to a Golden Corral dinner with us and decide to point his gun at children in the restaurant as some sort of joke. The national media would arrive with their cameras rollingbefore we would even have time to throw his butt out.
 

gamestalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
190
Location
, ,
imported post

I've beenrelying on an expert regarding our gun laws/rights inArizona, one Mr. Doug Little, an attorney. Anyway,in the State of Arizona any handling of, placing your hand on, or removing of your weapon in public is can be considered a violation of lawand with consideration to the former, can be legallyconstrued as brandishing, rude or offensive display, and threatening with a deadly weapon, and I'm sure some other terminologies would apply depending on the LEO s interpretation of the incident based onobserved accounts. If you have an area that seems grey to you regarding our gun laws/rights, I wouldask Mr Littleas this is his area of expertise. Although he will as well be honest with you if your question falls into one of those many areas that rely on LEO interpretation,which can vary from one officer to another he will advise you to simply use common sense to avoid unnecessary implications in a court of law that could have other wise been avoided bypracticing good gun conduct as we should all do our best to exploit when in the public eye..

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
 

gamestalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
190
Location
, ,
imported post

Without a doubt. I don't live all that far from where this incident happened and do travel often around the state and if I had encountered this blooming idiot I would have definitely thought him to bea perpetrator and would have used deadly force!

When seconds count, the police are only minutes a away!
 

mFonz77

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
265
Location
Sierra Vista, AZ
imported post

Whether this moron was a Brady plant or not, for my money, it was DEFINITELY related to the Constitutional Carry bill that is currently on Gov. Brewer's desk. The timing is simply too coincidental. However, for anyone who may use this event to their advantage, I would like to point out that this person was not CC'ing.

Personally I would have been in full Condition Orange the whole time...possibly not drawing down but certainly having my hand on the grip and ready for whatever this idiot might have been cooking up (aside: I would have to think he was possibly harboring some criminal intent and chickened out at the last minute).

I am currently emailing the AZCDL...I am not sure if it would do more harm than good to email the Governor personally as a RESPONSIBLE gun owner and make it known that I (and the rest of the OC/CC community) condemn this man's actions.
 

Notso

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
432
Location
Laveen, Arizona, USA
imported post

The timing is extremely odd, but I'm afraid he was just an idiot. If it ever came out that he was a plant, it would be the end of the Brady Bunch. I don't think they would ever chance that.
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

Notso wrote:
The timing is extremely odd, but I'm afraid he was just an idiot. If it ever came out that he was a plant, it would be the end of the Brady Bunch. I don't think they would ever chance that.
I disagree. The Brady's have made an entire political movement out of lying. What is one more denial but an extension of their long-established SOP?

It's what they do. At it's foundation, they never do anything else.
 

gamestalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
190
Location
, ,
imported post

You Sir are most definitely correct as to this presenting a condition orange. I as many others who have responded to this incident don't know if he was a Brady Bunch plant, a perpetrator who lost his nerve, or just a blooming idiot, but in any event, he would have gotten my attention to the extent I would have been on full alert, and ready for his intended actions. Further more, if I would have seen him fiddling with his weapon I would have with great caution, as in ready to defend myself, approached him, and with a strong sense of recommendation, suggested he put his weapon back in the holster where it belongs and keep his hands off of it entirely as our self defence law states. We are within the law to place our hand on our weapon, draw it, and even use it if it is our personal feeling that such actions are necessary to defend our self. But he was not actingwithin those standards of the self defense law and was in fact portraying himself as an imminent threat to the safety of others, be it by his AD that occurred after the fact, or the many other actions he was displaying that preempted that AD.

I recently had to draw my weapon on a young thug type( my apologies for the profiling)in a convenience store after he attempted to un-holster my weaponwhile trying to remove it from the holster.I finally managed to break his hold on my weapon long enough for me to unsnap it and draw it on him at which point he submitted and had been subdued by my actions. LE did get called and showed admiration for my constraint for not shooting him stating that I would have been perfectly within my legal rights to do so as his actions showed intent to do great bodily harm. My mistake was lack of awareness which will never happen again! I should have had my elbow touching my gun so as to been able to react quicker than I did or I could have had the holster pulled to the front of my body which would have kept it from his easy access. I now carry in that fashion so my weapon is always in my area of control and at my easy access not someone else.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
 

gamestalker

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
190
Location
, ,
imported post

It is still speculation at best to assume he was a Brady Bunch! To assume is what?

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
 

ixtow

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
5,038
Location
Suwannee County, FL
imported post

gamestalker wrote:
It is still speculation at best to assume he was a Brady Bunch! To assume is what?

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
I realize that it is enritely speculative, but speculation is the realm in which the question "What the hell was he thinking/doing?" resides. Any proposed answer is speculative, no matter what it is.

With the evidence available, it's the shoe that fits until a shoe is found which fits better. And I believe that a better fitting shoe will never be found.
 
Top