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Thread: School Gun Free Zone Question

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    I have a quick question about the school zone issue. The scenario is if I were to go to a new town or area in Wisconsin and I decide to open carry. What would happen if I was to accidentally go into a school zone without knowing? The wording in 2a says that a person has to have a reasonable cause to believe it was a school zone in order to be breaking the law. 1000' is a long way and there are several schools here in Menomonie that when you are even 500' away you would have no idea that a school was around. Just wondering what everyone else is thinking. I guess the one thing that I am really worried about is unknowingly walk into a school zone and getting caught up in a big mess.


    948.605 Gun−free school zones.
    (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
    (a) “Encased” has the meaning given in s. 167.31 (1) (b).
    (ac) “Firearm” does not include any beebee or pellet−firing
    gun that expels a projectile through the force of air pressure or any
    starter pistol.
    (am) “Motor vehicle” has the meaning given in s. 340.01 (35).
    (b) “School” has the meaning given in s. 948.61 (1) (b).
    (c) “School zone” means any of the following:
    1. In or on the grounds of a school.
    2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.
    (2) POSSESSION OF FIREARM IN SCHOOL ZONE.
    (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone is
    guilty of a Class I felony.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    If you walk into a school zone, you WILL be caught in a big mess. That's why we filed the lawsuit.

    Having said that, I don't look at maps so I have the "didn't know that" defense.

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    I guess that is the same way I look at it. I really hope it never happens.

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    The way the statute is written, your knowledge of the school zone is an element of the crime. That means the DA would have to prove your knowledge of it at your trial. By rights, his failure to do so should result in a dismissal when the state closes its case, meaning you would not have to put on a defense.

    Of course, you would have a spent a lot of sleepless nights and spent a lot of money on attorney's fees before you got to that point, and you would have been sorely tempted to take the deal they offered you to avoid a felony conviction, so you'd have to have some real brass ones to get that far.

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    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury. School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue, and suggest that any legally armed and law abiding citizen had cause to discover the nearby school zones. Of course I-ANAL and a coward.

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    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury. School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue,
    And I can just attest that I know for a fact that hundreds of pages from this forum have indeed been entered into the record in cases here in Wisconsin.

    It always bears repeating/reminding that law enforcement does indeed watch this site. How much and how often I don't know. It hopefully goes without saying this is a public forum, but always be mindful we are being watched.
    www.wisconsincarry.org Wisconsin Carry, Inc. is not affiliated with opencarry.org or these web forums. Questions about discussion forum policy or forum moderation should be directed to the owners of opencarry.org not Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Here is a good question for those that like to prod, poke and wonder:

    I own my house in a neighborhood that had no schools within 2 miles. House has belonged to my family for 4 or 5 years and then....you guessed it! The state, county, whatever government entity you wish to insert proclaims "Eminent Domain" and TAKES our community park in our deed restricted community and builds a school there. Now our tennis courts are still there next to the school and now my house is right on the edge of the 1000 foot unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone". So I look at the Kenosha county zone maps or whatever they are called that Doug linked a few weeks back and voila'. According to the platt record the tennis courts are ALSO SCHOOL PROPERTY now. Just amazing. Anyway, so when I walk out my front door carrying I have to turn left and walk to the next block over so I don't cross the "imaginary" line into the "Gun Free School Zone".

    I am certainly not happy about it and if I lived any closer I would be incensed by this. This 1000 foot school zone law is totally unconstitutional!
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Here is a good question for those that like to prod, poke and wonder:

    I own my house in a neighborhood that had no schools within 2 miles. House has belonged to my family for 4 or 5 years and then....you guessed it! The state, county, whatever government entity you wish to insert proclaims "Eminent Domain" and TAKES our community park in our deed restricted community and builds a school there. Now our tennis courts are still there next to the school and now my house is right on the edge of the 1000 foot unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone". So I look at the Kenosha county zone maps or whatever they are called that Doug linked a few weeks back and voila'. According to the platt record the tennis courts are ALSO SCHOOL PROPERTY now. Just amazing. Anyway, so when I walk out my front door carrying I have to turn left and walk to the next block over so I don't cross the "imaginary" line into the "Gun Free School Zone".

    I am certainly not happy about it and if I lived any closer I would be incensed by this. This 1000 foot school zone law is totally unconstitutional!
    I think this bears some further investigation. By the taking of the land and the building of the school, you and your neighbors are now "damaged" by an infringementr of your constitutional rights. You recieved no compensation from the state for this infringement.

    I wonder if there is a case to be had in this instance?



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    Now do I have this correct:

    If you own a house that is within 1000ft of a school zone,you can still carry on your property legally because it is your private property?

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury.* School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue, and suggest that any legally armed and law abiding citizen had cause to discover the nearby school zones.* Of course I-ANAL and a coward.
    Doug has a very good point here. The cached (sp?) files regarding school zones and who has viewed them are a matter of public record and can be retrieved by anyone. That being said any prosecutor worth his or her salt would retrieve such information and use it against a plaintiff who wandered into a "school zone" armed and may not have known they had done so.

    This law must be changed. Until it is.... score one for criminals and thugs. Score zero for dads, moms, and our children.
    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Here is a good question for those that like to prod, poke and wonder:

    I own my house in a neighborhood that had no schools within 2 miles. House has belonged to my family for 4 or 5 years and then....you guessed it! The state, county, whatever government entity you wish to insert proclaims "Eminent Domain" and TAKES our community park in our deed restricted community and builds a school there. Now our tennis courts are still there next to the school and now my house is right on the edge of the 1000 foot unconstitutional "Gun Free School Zone". So I look at the Kenosha county zone maps or whatever they are called that Doug linked a few weeks back and voila'. According to the platt record the tennis courts are ALSO SCHOOL PROPERTY now. Just amazing. Anyway, so when I walk out my front door carrying I have to turn left and walk to the next block over so I don't cross the "imaginary" line into the "Gun Free School Zone".

    I am certainly not happy about it and if I lived any closer I would be incensed by this. This 1000 foot school zone law is totally unconstitutional!
    I think this bears some further investigation. By the taking of the land and the building of the school, you and your neighbors are now "damaged" by an infringementr of your constitutional rights. You recieved no compensation from the state for this infringement.

    I wonder if there is a case to be had in this instance?

    Oh yeah, they "compensated" us homeowners with a small tax break (I think it is only a few hundred a year but I would have to ask my wife, she has all the information on this). Every time I drive to the school during school hours I am so glad I don't own a house that "now" occupies the land directly across the street from the school. It is crazy around the entire block the school occupies during school hours. The houses around the school are within spitting distance. Remember this WAS a community park. So imagine walking out your front door and across the street and now you are on school property. No buffer, no distance between the school and the houses except for the community street. People drive their cars and trucks en-mass around this school in the morning and afternoon to drop off and pick up kids. The people that live around the school cannot even get into or out of their driveways due to the high traffic. Talk about lowering the value of our homes. This has done it. I would NEVER buy a house around a school. That's my rant.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    Compensation is the worm in the rotten apple of eminent domain. Somewhere 'market value' is mentioned and then ignored. If the seller sets the market value then he should be happy. If the state tries to set market value then you've been Obamanated!

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Compensation is the worm in the rotten apple of eminent domain. Somewhere 'market value' is mentioned and then ignored. If the seller sets the market value then he should be happy. If the state tries to set market value then you've been Obamanated!
    We were certainly "Obamanated". I would venture a guess that not one person who lives next to the school has any idea that they have lost a constitutional right due to an unconstitutional law. I am fairly certain that there are at least 20 or more hunters in the area that are unaware of the school zone law. It would be a travesty if one or more of these guys were "caught" by the local PD walking their firearm to their storage box on their vehicles for hunting and stepped into the "School Zone". Sounds like something from "Night Gallery" with Rod Serling except instead of Rod Serling you see Herb Kohl pointing at you and laughing.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Compensation is the worm in the rotten apple of eminent domain. Somewhere 'market value' is mentioned and then ignored. If the seller sets the market value then he should be happy. If the state tries to set market value then you've been Obamanated!
    We were certainly "Obamanated". I would venture a guess that not one person who lives next to the school has any idea that they have lost a constitutional right due to an unconstitutional law. I am fairly certain that there are at least 20 or more hunters in the area that are unaware of the school zone law. It would be a travesty if one or more of these guys were "caught" by the local PD walking their firearm to their storage box on their vehicles for hunting and stepped into the "School Zone". Sounds like something from "Night Gallery" with Rod Serling except instead of Rod Serling you see Herb Kohl pointing at you and laughing.
    Phil, Sounds like you have some neighbors to visit... Bring some fliers with you :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

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    revolverrandy wrote:
    Now do I have this correct:

    If you own a house that is within 1000ft of a school zone,you can still carry on your property legally because it is your private property?
    Yes, you may carry on your own property or any other private property with in a school zone.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    hunter9mm wrote:
    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Compensation is the worm in the rotten apple of eminent domain. Somewhere 'market value' is mentioned and then ignored. If the seller sets the market value then he should be happy. If the state tries to set market value then you've been Obamanated!
    We were certainly "Obamanated". I would venture a guess that not one person who lives next to the school has any idea that they have lost a constitutional right due to an unconstitutional law. I am fairly certain that there are at least 20 or more hunters in the area that are unaware of the school zone law. It would be a travesty if one or more of these guys were "caught" by the local PD walking their firearm to their storage box on their vehicles for hunting and stepped into the "School Zone". Sounds like something from "Night Gallery" with Rod Serling except instead of Rod Serling you see Herb Kohl pointing at you and laughing.
    Phil, Sounds like you have some neighbors to visit... Bring some fliers with you :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate
    Jim, if I thought it would do any good I would go door to door to every house around that school. I don't think a single person would lift a finger to fight for their rights. I know I sound pessimistic but I have been involved in community events and most people just hide in their houses and cower. The people of this era going back about thirty or more years have been "brain washed"....err...I mean "educated" that they have to bow down to the government and whatever rights they have are provided by the government because the "government knows what is best for everyone". Heck, even my 77 year old M.I.L. believes that B.S. I have talked to her for hours and it is like talking to my dog. No comprehension of anything I am explaining. So sad.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    About the eminent domain, there are no rights left to fight for, it's a done deal, the school is built and what compensation is due has been paid.

    There is more to civic politics than guns and cars. Without property rights they don't matter much, do they?

    The first political snitstorm that I walked into here was about our community airport - 2P2 - and eminent domain. I don't believe that a public entity should compete with a private entity, so the airport should be private. That ain't going to happen here!

    Then the state decides that it's a good thing to realign one of the runways for safety/insurance purposes. Which means moving two approach slopes, which means cutting trees to below the slope, which means eminent domain condemnation of neighbors air space. So they got paid for their air space. Then they want to rezone for economic rehabilitation - not a purpose of zoning. PHUI, a disgusting situation from start to finish.

    Now the state wants to pave the main runway, again for safety/insurance purposes. And the neighbors will whine about increased traffic. I'd liefer close it and plow it under and remove the DHSFEMA-USCG's excuse for being here armed, the fear that druggies use the airport.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    About the eminent domain, there are no rights left to fight for, it's a done deal, the school is built and what compensation is due has been paid.

    There is more to civic politics than guns and cars. Without property rights they don't matter much, do they?

    The first political snitstorm that I walked into here was about our community airport - 2P2 - and eminent domain. I don't believe that a public entity should compete with a private entity, so the airport should be private. That ain't going to happen here!

    Then the state decides that it's a good thing to realign one of the runways for safety/insurance purposes. Which means moving two approach slopes, which means cutting trees to below the slope, which means eminent domain condemnation of neighbors air space. So they got paid for their air space. Then they want to rezone for economic rehabilitation - not a purpose of zoning. PHUI, a disgusting situation from start to finish.

    Now the state wants to pave the main runway, again for safety/insurance purposes. And the neighbors will whine about increased traffic. I'd liefer close it and plow it under and remove the DHSFEMA-USCG's excuse for being here armed, the fear that druggies use the airport.
    Stated accurately and right on. Eminent Domain is the state's legal terminology for "theft".

    Another reason to move to the middle of nowhere.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    I tried, 750 people in 20 square miles separated from the world by ten-ish miles of pure water, and I live smack in the middle, but still G-LOC and his sockpuppets and their puppeteer think themselves welcome.

    On the boat(s) the unwelcome kept to the diesel room, in the world they strut their rights.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    I tried, 750 people in 20 square miles separated from the world by ten-ish miles of pure water, and I live smack in the middle, but still G-LOC and his sockpuppets and their puppeteer think themselves welcome.

    On the boat(s) the unwelcome kept to the diesel room, in the world they strut their rights.
    Yep but we are still in Wisconsin. "Land of Liberals, The Spreader's of Our Wealth" err...I mean THIEVES.

    When I said "Move to the middle of nowhere" I meant somewhere like Alaska. I so want to move there but the wife doesn't. I may end up there anyway with the way things are going in this country.

    LOL about the diesel room. You WERE on old boats! Never heard it called that except on diesel subs.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury. School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue, and suggest that any legally armed and law abiding citizen had cause to discover the nearby school zones. Of course I-ANAL and a coward.
    While I do agree that this forum is watched. I also have to say that unless everyone here is a Savant with a photographic memory, there is no way you could know every school zone in this state or even in the larger cities. There are many people out there that could read something or look at a map and forget what they saw or read 15 minutes later. It is human nature.

    To say that just because someone looked at a map they knew they were in the GFSZ would be ridiculous and very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Just because a person is a memeber of this forum does not mean they read every post or look at every map that is posted.

    It would seem to me that if the state or local government ws that intent on enforcing the laws then they would mark the curbs withing the GFSZ.

    They mark them for no parking areas! Why not the GFSZ?

    I would think that would bring a valid argument into the court. Sonds like entrapment to me.

  22. #22
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury. School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue, and suggest that any legally armed and law abiding citizen had cause to discover the nearby school zones. Of course I-ANAL and a coward.
    While I do agree that this forum is watched. I also have to say that unless everyone here is a Savant with a photographic memory, there is no way you could know every school zone in this state or even in the larger cities. There are many people out there that could read something or look at a map and forget what they saw or read 15 minutes later. It is human nature.

    To say that just because someone looked at a map they knew they were in the GFSZ would be ridiculous and very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Just because a person is a memeber of this forum does not mean they read every post or look at every map that is posted.

    It would seem to me that if the state or local government ws that intent on enforcing the laws then they would mark the curbs withing the GFSZ.

    They mark them for no parking areas! Why not the GFSZ?

    I would think that would bring a valid argument into the court.
    It is very difficult to watch every place my feet take me so I don't wander into a school zone. It is absolutely incredulous that any sane person would even think of this idea of a school zone to prohibit firearms within 1000 ft or even 1 ft of school property. There are so many things wrong with this thought process of our liberal politicians.

    If I lived across the street from the school here in my neighborhood I would sit in a lawn chair in my front yard with my gun on during the morning and afternoon when the kids are being dropped off and picked up. Why? Because this insane law does nothing to protect anyone. I still have my gun and kids are all around me and safe as can be. My gun won't jump out of it's holster and shoot anyone. And my tax dollars are at work prohibiting me from exercising a right protected by the constitutions of Wisconsin and the U.S. Wow. Incredible.

    Does this "School Zone" law of 1000 ft mean that the entire circle around the school is a "school zone"? I haven't looked at that yet. If so, then I think the police should park on EVERY road leading into or out of the "School Zone" and write speeding tickets. The speed limit is 15 mph (not posted at all by the school in my neighborhood) in a "school zone" when children are present and believe me they ARE present in the morning and afternoon on school days. How long would it take before the average person got fed up with speeding tickets by their homes on a daily basis when the school is a thousand feet away?

    The more I think about this GFSZ B.S. the angrier I get.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    rcawdor57 wrote:
    J.Gleason wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    If I were the prosecuting attorney then I would certainly copy a bunch of pages from this Wisconsin forum for the jury. School zone maps and discussions of school zones and the common awareness of the issue, and suggest that any legally armed and law abiding citizen had cause to discover the nearby school zones. Of course I-ANAL and a coward.
    While I do agree that this forum is watched. I also have to say that unless everyone here is a Savant with a photographic memory, there is no way you could know every school zone in this state or even in the larger cities. There are many people out there that could read something or look at a map and forget what they saw or read 15 minutes later. It is human nature.

    To say that just because someone looked at a map they knew they were in the GFSZ would be ridiculous and very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Just because a person is a memeber of this forum does not mean they read every post or look at every map that is posted.

    It would seem to me that if the state or local government ws that intent on enforcing the laws then they would mark the curbs withing the GFSZ.

    They mark them for no parking areas! Why not the GFSZ?

    I would think that would bring a valid argument into the court.
    It is very difficult to watch every place my feet take me so I don't wander into a school zone. It is absolutely incredulous that any sane person would even think of this idea of a school zone to prohibit firearms within 1000 ft or even 1 ft of school property. There are so many things wrong with this thought process of our liberal politicians.

    If I lived across the street from the school here in my neighborhood I would sit in a lawn chair in my front yard with my gun on during the morning and afternoon when the kids are being dropped off and picked up. Why? Because this insane law does nothing to protect anyone. I still have my gun and kids are all around me and safe as can be. My gun won't jump out of it's holster and shoot anyone. And my tax dollars are at work prohibiting me from exercising a right protected by the constitutions of Wisconsin and the U.S. Wow. Incredible.

    Does this "School Zone" law of 1000 ft mean that the entire circle around the school is a "school zone"? I haven't looked at that yet. If so, then I think the police should park on EVERY road leading into or out of the "School Zone" and write speeding tickets. The speed limit is 15 mph (not posted at all by the school in my neighborhood) in a "school zone" when children are present and believe me they ARE present in the morning and afternoon on school days. How long would it take before the average person got fed up with speeding tickets by their homes on a daily basis when the school is a thousand feet away?

    The more I think about this GFSZ B.S. the angrier I get.
    Excellent Point RC,

    There should be a law that the 15 MPH limit should be enforced throughout the SZ. That way it will start inconveniencing the anti gunners as well. Let them see how it feels to be infringed.

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    What would be infringed by a 15 mph speed limit? Driving a car on public roads is not a right.

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    Your time.

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