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Thread: Carrying on Motorcycle

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    Hi guys, I used to be on here quite regularly until about six months ago when some things came up and haven’t been back since.

    My question is about the legality of carrying a gun, either long gun or pistol, on a motorcycle that doesn’t have racks or saddle bags (and I have no intention of putting either on it). If I had a pistol in a case in a backpack would that technically be illegal, what about if I had an unloaded gun in a holster on my belt that completely enclosed the gun. I am thinking with either of these two ways it would be possible for me to be charged with having a concealed weapon.

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    Vehicle carry is controlled by §167.31. There is case law arguing that a weapon must also be "out of reach" in addition to the elements of §167.31.

    §941.23 concealed carry prohibition does not have an explicit exception to vehicle carry and its annotations make the elements for the crime include the facts of improper vehicle carry.

    I-ANAL and a coward.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Hillmann wrote:
    Hi guys, I used to be on here quite regularly until about six months ago when some things came up and haven’t been back since.

    My question is about the legality of carrying a gun, either long gun or pistol, on a motorcycle that doesn’t have racks or saddle bags (and I have no intention of putting either on it). If I had a pistol in a case in a backpack would that technically be illegal, what about if I had an unloaded gun in a holster on my belt that completely enclosed the gun. I am thinking with either of these two ways it would be possible for me to be charged with having a concealed weapon.

    As far as the law goes, I do not see any other way for you to transport a handgun on a bike. The backpack is about the only thing that would work (if you have no bags). I can tell you that if the "wrong" cop pulls you over, you might have an issue, but I would add that I would bet $100 that your case would be dropped in court, as the judge will not be able to come up with a better way of transport (on your bike). If it helps at all, I would not fear riding my bike with a back pack on. The back pack is your trunk (on your bike).

    The only thing I can ask, is that you just remember to use your turn signals. I just hate bikers that won't signal a lane change... Yea, I ride too...

    Keep the rubber side down, but ride it like you stole it!

    Aaron


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    Unfortunately I already knew that. I guess I was hoping that something had happened in the last six months or so to clarify that because there are many vehicles that can't have the gun out of reach. I plan to use the bike for off road riding in the blue hills and since I have came across "gardens" up there well trout fishing I don't really want to be up their unarmed. Although in a case in a backpack probably wouldn't do me much good if I needed it, nor would unloaded in a holster. Another example of Wisconsin law giving the criminal the upper hand.

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    AaronS wrote:
    The only thing I can ask, is that you just remember to use your turn signals. I just hate bikers that won't signal a lane change... Yea, I ride too...

    Keep the rubber side down, but ride it like you stole it!

    Aaron
    My bike has a 6 volt system so weather I use my signals or not it doesn't matter because they aren't bright enough to be seen.

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    It probably be best if you had it in a locked case, in your back pack. Although it better transported in an attached hard case/saddle bag that locks as well.
    There are, as I recall 3 ways a LEO can search you bag, 1. With consent 2. Search Incident to Arrest 3. Probable Cause.
    And as well if you were in a car/truck it could be searched if the Vehicle were to be Impounded (by Police/Sheriffs Dept) called a Vehicular Inventory, which kind of falls into Search Incident to Arrest.
    If LEO has no PC or RS and ask for your consent (to search) you have the RIGHT to say NO!
    As it goes, LEO are there to enforce the Laws, not to interpit them, that is for a Lawyer to argue with a Judge about, not a Road Side practice.
    Good luck and welcome back!

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    Regular Member bluehighways's Avatar
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    Hillmann wrote:
    **** * I plan to use the bike for off road riding in the blue hills and since I have came across "gardens" up there well trout fishing I don't really want to be up their unarmed.*

    I started exploring the Blue Hills area about 13 years ago and have also stumbled upon "growing operations" back in the sticks.

    :what:
    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

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    bluehighways wrote:
    Hillmann wrote:
    I plan to use the bike for off road riding in the blue hills and since I have came across "gardens" up there well trout fishing I don't really want to be up their unarmed.

    I started exploring the Blue Hills area about 13 years ago and have also stumbled upon "growing operations" back in the sticks.

    :what:
    Nothing was growing yet (at least as far as I know) but it was obvious that someone had cleared the undergrowth and were prepairing the soilto use it for something, and being 2 miles or so from the nearest road or open trail I can guess what they had planned it for. Although it is possible, but unlikely that they were illegally using it as a feed plot for deer. Since then I don't go trout fishing unprepaired.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    The inventory search is another "legal" way to circumvent the 4th amendment. Mount a safe in your trunk (bolt it down) and keep your valuables inside the safe. I saw a police officer "confiscate" a Mustang (the car of course) because the lady inside could not find her proof of insurance (Nevada). Of course the lady was left on foot and the police officer then "searched" err....I mean "inventoried" the contents of the vehicle for her safety.
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    .
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 04:46 PM.

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    How do you escape the elements of §941.23 that does not have an exception for transportation.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).

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    This topic is brought up it seems like every week. Say it with me everyone, SEARCH FUNCTION!!!!!

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    How do you escape the elements of §941.23 that does not have an exception for transportation.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Yep. The law(s) are ridiculous. These laws are DESIGNED so we cannot exercise the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. No doubt about it and we all know it.

    True about the search function! This is an old question that comes up quite a bit.

    Carry on.....
    The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms. -- Samuel Adams

    Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.

    John F. Kennedy

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    btw, no where in the statute does it say anything resembling that it must be out of reach.

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    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    How do you escape the elements of §941.23 that does not have an exception for transportation.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Yep. The law(s) are ridiculous. These laws are DESIGNED so we cannot exercise the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. No doubt about it and we all know it.

    True about the search function! This is an old question that comes up quite a bit.

    Carry on.....
    The search function is useless if you don't read what it produces.

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    Regular Member opusd2's Avatar
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    And here I've always wanted a leather scabbard for the front forks to carry my long gun...

    Anyway, I carry mine in one of the saddle bags, towards the bottom, in a locked case. The ammo in the other side. To me that's been my definition of legal, and think I'm in the right.

    Of course, that's just my view.

    Now to get that nice leather scabbard! That would just look so cool. I suppose a locking one form an atv should suffice, but who knows.

    Anyone?
    I aim to misbehave

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    rcawdor57 wrote:
    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    How do you escape the elements of §941.23 that does not have an exception for transportation.

    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).
    Yep. The law(s) are ridiculous. These laws are DESIGNED so we cannot exercise the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. No doubt about it and we all know it.

    True about the search function! This is an old question that comes up quite a bit.

    Carry on.....
    The search function is useless if you don't read what it produces.
    Cased and locked is not within reach. Many many others agree on this, including law enforcement and lawyers.

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    Dustiniac wrote:
    Cased and locked is not within reach. Many many others agree on this, including law enforcement and lawyers.
    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. You're right, go rub a cops nose in it.

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    State v. Keith is one part of the equation. Also see State v. Walls where the court said a handgun on a car seat is not readily discernible to ordinary observation from certain vantage points outside the car, and therefore hidden, and therefore concealed.

    It is somewhat like saying a neighbor saw someone with a gun and called police, therefore there was a disturbance, therefore there is evidence of conduct that is disorderly, and the individual did have a gun, which facilitated the call to police, so therefore it is disorderly conduct while armed, which poses a threat of lethal force to the general public, which is a felony, so you are being arrested on Felony Disorderly Conduct While Armed.

    Brad Krause
    Instructor, Wisconsin Civil Rights Advocate, and someone who still plants trees armed
    Last edited by Brad_Krause; 08-21-2010 at 04:44 PM.

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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    Dustiniac wrote:
    Cased and locked is not within reach. Many many others agree on this, including law enforcement and lawyers.
    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense. You're right, go rub a cops nose in it.
    Doug, shove it. You can have your opinions, but who do you think you are getting off insulting everyone on here when they don't agree with what you say? Get off your high horse. You are a sad pathetic man.

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    Dustiniac:

    Search and read the case of State v. Fry. Fry was convicted for going armed with a concealed weapon because he had a handgun locked in the glove compartment of his automobile. The Court still considered it "within reach". Also read State v. Asfoor. The Court ruled that a firearm must be carried out of reach so as to avoid a conflict with 167.31. Doesn't much matter how a statute is technically worded it is the Court's interpretation that determineswhether or not you go to the slammer.

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    You're not agreeing with that pathetic old man, are you?

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    Rinoceros:

    By pathetic old man I presume you are talking about Doug. Or perhaps you were referring to me. I have seen 70 Winters so perhaps that makes me an old man. As for Doug, he has been a member of this forum since 2006. You have been a member for 12 days. How can you even believe that you know enough about the man to make an intelligent decision as to whether or not hhe is pathetic. Sometimes he may seem to talk in riddles and sometimes his messages may be cloaked but none of us "old timers" on this forum question his knowledge of state and case law and his ability to research. "Don't judge a man untill you walk a mile in his mocassins".

    Most of us older members of this forum have had differences of opinions with each other. That is what debate and discussion is all about. That does not mean we don't respect each others viewpoints.

    "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". Harry S.Truman.

    Now to answer your question. You damn right I am.





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    Brad_Krause wrote:
    It is somewhat like saying a neighbor saw someone with a gun and called police, therefore there was a disturbance, therefore there is evidence of conduct that is disorderly, and the individual did have a gun, which facilitated the call to police, so therefore it is disorderly conduct while armed, which poses a threat of lethal force to the general public, which is a felony, so you are being arrested on Felony Disorderly Conduct While Armed.

    Geez Brad, that almost sounds like you are speaking from experience!!!

    For the people who are not familiar with Brad, that is exactlyhow he got arrested and charged, what almost 2 years ago now? For simply having a pistol on his side, on his own property, while planting trees.
    Allegedly, a neighbor had simply called the police to ask ifit was legal for a person to have a pistol on their side while working in their yard, and the West Allis Police took it from there and created a huge mess for everyone involved.
    But at the same time, this incident got the Attorney General to finally make a statement!
    So how many police offices stormed your yard with their guns drawn, and screaming atyou in that incident?
    And how long did they have you standing with handcuffs on while they tried to find something to charge you with?
    So the story Brad outlined above is how they finally got Brad charged with that offense.

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    So Doug's wisdom is his ability to use the search function on Google. Wow, I'm impressed. Give him the Nobel.

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