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Thread: Ego and the lesson.

  1. #1
    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    I picked up my 8yr old son today at school and pulled out into the street to start our drive home. We came to a stop light where I was taking a right hand turn on red, and there was a good sized gap for me to turn right into traffic safely (even though I didn’t come to a complete stop).

    I have a fast car that has been upgraded with plenty of power and torque and I was goingabout 45 when I took my foot off the gas a ¼ block from the corner. There was a guy in a pickup (who ended up behind me in traffic after the turn) decided that he did not like me coming into traffic and decides to come up on my ass after this and starts to honk his horn – I ofcourse ignore him.

    We come to an intersection where we are at a red light (and I just so happen receive a phone call as I was slowing down– yes I do wear a headset). Once I am stopped, my SA is not the greatest since I am trying to pay attention to the call, when I get a loud couple of whacks on my driver side window. I turn startled and the driver of the truck decided to get out of his truck and wanted to have a conversation with me. It started with, “HEY *******, YOU CAN’T TAKE A FREE RIGHT HAND TURN……….”

    Well, I was glad I kept my wits about myself; I just turned away as the light turned green and drove off. Of course he was not happy with that and then decides to tail me for a couple of miles.

    My son asked me what he was doing and we talked about how this is a good example of how you “walk away” instead of meeting fire with fire. My son asked where the man was and I told him that the man was still behind us. My son turns around to see and the poor ‘ol bastard decides to flip my son off – we had a laugh over that.

    Now to the reflection of the incident: I was not packing and part of me wonders what I would have done if I was, and would I have acted differently if my son was not in the car. I also realized that even though I was wearing my headset, I was too focused on the call to take notice of this guy coming up in my rear view mirror – I received an easy lesson to stay on top of have good Situation Awareness.

    I was proud of how I did handle the situation; he was angry and wanted to make sure that I heard what he had to say. I did not engage him, flip him off or try to justify why I did what I did, I just drove off – the driving off actually felt good when I saw the look on his face of, “oh, he didn’t just drive off on me?!” -- I love justice served cold.

    It also made me think how lucky the guy could have been. If there was someone else, who may have been a couple beers short of a six-pack and was not as concerned or decided to meet his ego head as to how this situation may have turned out.

    Guess, my whole point is: be kind to each other, don’t be an idiot and decided that it is your civic duty to tell someone the rules of the road or how they are to act – leave that to the cops, that is their job. And if, for some reason you DO decide to do that, maybe decide to wait until you’re are off the road and maybe start the conversation, “Can I buy you a cup of coffee?” Or, “I would hate for you to get an overpriced ticket and wanted to let you know that…” in a CALM, inviting manner, instead of "HEY *******" -- not interested in what you have to say then.

    Hope you all have a great weekend and be safe!

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    Neat.

    Not sure what this has to do with OC.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I suppose what lies at the heart of this post is that he wonders if he would have acted different if he was armed. While hypotheticals are nice to run repeatedly in your mind do not distract yourself from the reality that you weren't armed and wondering how you would have reacted armed is at best a guess.

    I have heard it before, "if they weren't armed they would have never done that," "they were emboldened to respond because they were armed." Armchair quarterbacks have the luxury of looking into what is an abstract scenario to them but reality to you.

    Personally whether I am armed or not I have always not tolerated aggression and have always attempted to talk or walk myself out of a situation. That being said, sometimes the natural human response it to be defensive when someone targets you and focus their aggression on your and your family.

    Moral of the story--whether you are armed or not you should be the same person you have always been. I wear different pairs of shoes on occassionbut that does not change how I walk, run, etc. A handgun is nothing more than another article of clothing for myself--an article of clothing that happens to shoot lead out of it

    I don't personally look for trouble, I just happen to be a scummbag magnet.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    lol - yes Sylvia, i can agree with you there. Myself included, i never look to get into trouble, but for some reason it will find me on occasion. Unlike the OP here, i am always armed (except at work i cannot be), and I will always do my best to avoid a situation that mightforce me to use a firearm. I do not carry with ambition, i carry as a life insurance policy that is a last resort. I would hope the OP would have done exactly the same thing if he was armed, a firearm should never be what sways your decision or provides your courage.
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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    An issue on this incident is why did you not call 911 as the story leads up to believe it is a road rage incident and then considering what you would have done if armed, the same thing but call 911 and report.

    Your child is with you the best move in this incident is not to add to the incident and report it, armed or not.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    That is why for me, personally, I do not and will not OC because I am aware that I am an idiot magnet and the last thing I want is for people to see that I am armed.

    I know many OC'ers and think it is great that they excercise that right but I will leave that to them
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    All great thoughts and perspectives, thanks for sharing.

    There are many reasons why I posted this hear, was in part as some said, "armchair quarterback" as to how I would supposed I would have reacted if I had been armed; my hope is that I would have reacted the exact same way.

    I also posted because I wanted to get some feedback from the "well-seasoned" individuals on this blog. And I like the analogy, that my sidearm is just another article of clothing.

    I also appreciate the recommendation that I should have called the police. That is something I did NOT even think about as it was occurring and in reality, I didn't believe that this guy was even going to try anything else but to be try to intimidate me -- he didn't. But, in hindsight, I probably should have.

    I also posted as a reminder to all of us, to keep up a high Situational Awareness of what is going on around us. There was no reason that I shouldn't have seen this guy coming up on me -- he came up on my driver's side, left his door open as he came up and I had a complete view of it when I looked at in mirror as I drove off -- plane and simple I was not paying attention. If he had intended to do harm, I would have been F*CKED!

    Thanks to everyone sharing their thoughts!

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    As crappy as volatile situations are there is one big positive that comes from it and that is we experience a real life scenerio and if we are good firearm owners and carriers spend days, weeks and months that follow critiquing how we handled each situation--at least that is what I have done post-self-defense.

    The number one thing I have heard from others who have been forced to draw their sidearm is that they regret letting the person get as close as they did...that seems to be the running theme of self-critiques.

    I wonder sometimes what people are thinking when attacking a person who is with their children because I don't know about anyone else but I definately step up the self-defense response and get from yellow alert to drawing my sidearm much quicker. When SHTF it hits it quicker than even the books we read could ever describe--you have to experience how fast it goes down in real life, unfortunately.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    According to Washing State Patrol, it would have been fine to call 911 and report the incident.

    http://www.wsp.wa.gov/traveler/roadrage.htm

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Just to note that attitudes of "You Do Not; Scare Me; Intimidate Me, How Dare You, Do that to Me and so on will push one into a confrontation faster then one may really want.

    Having these Macho attitudes will not serve you well as if something did occur and when asked if you were scared and one replies back with "He doesn't scare me" can have negative repercussions for you.

    I believe a greater majority of those that carry or are armed for self defense really just want to be left alone and safe and truly do not want to harm another but will if forced into it.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    Just to note that attitudes of "You Do Not; Scare Me; Intimidate Me, How Dare You, Do that to Me and so on will push one into a confrontation faster then one may really want.
    All of these things are subjective and general. They are each perspective based and what the receiver of harrassement or violence sees and formulates their response is different from what onlookers and the attacker sees.

    Do you think a person is safer giving off the vibe that they are intimidated by the aggressor or that they are not intimidated? Remeber, those are the only two things you are going to give off. Is a person safer if they allow their aggressor to think that they are scared or not sccared? Remember, those are the only twothings you are going to give off.

    I am going to focus on malesbecause men committ the vast majority of violent crimes, including rape in the United States. is that a condemnation of all men, NO.I can only offer my perspective as a woman. If a man targets me it is because he views me as weak and an easy target to victimize. The question is if I am batter off letting the man think that I am scared and intimidated or not scared and not intimidated--it is a double edged sword IMO. Either way I will likely be attacked so I will respondrationally and hope for the best.

    I have been approach by men while I was pumping gas, while at an ATM, while at the grocery store shopping, while walking down the street to Starbucks. When a man focuses on me and approaches me I, in a friendly way, raise my hand and say "don't come any closer, what do you want." If that seems aggressive or intimidating or whatever, that is the approach I take.I realize that I have to establish some distance from people that I do not know who are approaching me. Most of the time the person isn't targeting me for anything but a question but I go with my gutt and make sure that the person is clear about what I expect from them.

    As a female I am skeptical of any arguement made that I would be safer if I just sit there and do and say nothing. I have heard some really bad advice over the years. Example: last week in my sociology course we were talking about "men and masculinity" in the United States and the female instructor said that encouraging women to defend themselves might make the attack worse. "Sometimes the best thing to do is just lay there and be victimized," yes, the instuctor said that.

    That type of attitude perpetuates victimization, especially against women. Personally I will not allow someone to take control or allow them to think that they have that opportunity to take control of me and victimize me. If a person targets me while I am alone or with my family they better be ready for a self-preservation, family-preservation response.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  12. #12
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Sylvia first lets get this into context the Title of the Thread is " Ego and the lesson" and in light of that, is how I responded in my post.

    You have only quoted one sentence of my post and left out an important one as it relays my position

    Big Dave wrote; I believe a greater majority of those that carry or are armed for self defense really just want to be left alone and safe and truly do not want to harm another but will if forced into it.
    "There are confrontations one can try to deescalate by apologizing or assuming fault even though you are not, it does not mean you are weak or vulnerable. This is not done by letting your guard down nor cowering but be prepared to defend yourself or others.

    Sylvia writes; All of these things are subjective and general. They are each perspective based and what the receiver of harassment or violence sees and formulates their response is different from what onlookers and the attacker sees.
    Agreed it is not likely any two incidents will be exactly the same and there will be variables.

    Sylvia writes; Do you think a person is safer giving off the vibe that they are intimidated by the aggressor or that they are not intimidated? Remember, those are the only two things you are going to give off. Is a person safer if they allow their aggressor to think that they are scared or not scarred? Remember, those are the only twothings you are going to give off.
    I feel a person is safer when they present themselves in a strong confident manner.

    If one can deescalate a conflict by appoligizing or assuming responsbility even though it is not your fault may allow you to walk away with out shooting someone or being harmed yourself.
    This does not mean not to defend yourself but do not do it in ego mind set.
    Is it not our goal to keep ourselves and those we care for safe so we can enjoy life?

    Sylvia writes; If a man targets me it is because he views me as weak and an easy target to victimize. The question is if I am batter off letting the man think that I am scared and intimidated or not scared and not intimidated--it is a double edged sword IMO. Either way I will likely be attacked so I will respondrationally and hope for the best.
    Sylvia again we all need to present ourselves in a confident and alert manner to not be seen as a easy mark.
    Letting someone see you as being weak, if you feel by apologizing or taken blame even though you were not wrong as being weak, this seems to be an ego issue instead of being seen as being weak.

    As you stated later that you would put your hand up and tell them to stay back is not an aggressive move but a defensive move when someone moves into your comfort zone as with ATM's Pumping Gas and a couple more places.
    Saying please stay back or Oh Sorry Just a Minute Please, in a clear concise voice with a strong posture, is that being weak? I do not think so.

    Sylvia writes; As a female I am skeptical of any argument made that I would be safer if I just sit there and do and say nothing. I have heard some really bad advice over the years. Example: last week in my sociology course we were talking about "men and masculinity" in the United States and the female instructor said that encouraging women to defend themselves might make the attack worse. "Sometimes the best thing to do is just lay there and be victimized," yes, the instructor said that.
    Sylvia I have never implied or subscribed to the concept of just letting someone to just set there and do nothing while being victimized.
    I would expect anyone being attacked to defend themselves with what ever means available.

    Again the subject has to do with EGO's and if one does not allow themselves to be drawn into this "one up manship" they can avoid a dangerous situation which goes along with the goal of keep you and yours safe and avoid the issue of possibly taken a life needlessly or dealing with the aftermath.

    If one is approached in a manner there is no alternative then it is game on and I am winning.









    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I agree. My post might have seemed like an attack, that was not my intent.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  14. #14
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    I agree. My post might have seemed like an attack, that was not my intent.
    Thank you and no offense taken, Dave
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member killchain's Avatar
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    BigDave wrote:
    Just to note that attitudes of "You Do Not; Scare Me; Intimidate Me, How Dare You, Do that to Me and so on will push one into a confrontation faster then one may really want.

    Having these Macho attitudes will not serve you well as if something did occur and when asked if you were scared and one replies back with "He doesn't scare me" can have negative repercussions for you.

    I believe a greater majority of those that carry or are armed for self defense really just want to be left alone and safe and truly do not want to harm another but will if forced into it.
    +1
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -John Stuart Mill

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    HeesBonafide wrote:
    ...even though I didn’t come to a complete stop.

    My son asked me what he was doing and we talked about how this is a good example of how you “walk away” instead of meeting fire with fire. My son asked where the man was and I told him that the man was still behind us. My son turns around to see and the poor ‘ol bastard decides to flip my son off – we had a laugh over that.

    I was proud of how I did handle the situation....
    So you showed your kid that it is acceptable to break the law? Both kids adults get hit and injured, killed, or maimed because so many drivers consider stop signs and red lights to be 'suggestions' instead of law.

    The lesson you might have tried to convey to your son:
    "Daddy messed up and ran that red light; the angry man might have lost a loved one when someone else did just that. I should apologize and try harder to obey the law."

  17. #17
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    So you showed your kid that it is acceptable to break the law? Both kids adults get hit and injured, killed, or maimed because so many drivers consider stop signs and red lights to be 'suggestions' instead of law.

    The lesson you might have tried to convey to your son:
    "Daddy messed up and ran that red light; the angry man might have lost a loved one when someone else did just that. I should apologize and try harder to obey the law."
    I really don't mean to be rude but GOOD GRIEF. I am sure an apology would have went over well with the enraged man that was following him for miles. I tell you what, next time you are being chased down by some POS who didn't like you pulling in front of them, take your car to the side of the road, get out of your car and talk it out with the irrational driver.

    I think that he conveyed a good lesson in explaining to his son that there are some people out there that blow things out of proportion and are a danger to themselves and society. I am sure things would go over much better if you were there to give the POS a hug on the side of the road to calm his road rage.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    So you showed your kid that it is acceptable to break the law? Both kids adults get hit and injured, killed, or maimed because so many drivers consider stop signs and red lights to be 'suggestions' instead of law.

    The lesson you might have tried to convey to your son:
    "Daddy messed up and ran that red light; the angry man might have lost a loved one when someone else did just that. I should apologize and try harder to obey the law."
    I really don't mean to be rude but GOOD GRIEF. I am sure an apology would have went over well with the enraged man that was following him for miles. I tell you what, next time you are being chased down by some POS who didn't like you pulling in front of them, take your car to the side of the road, get out of your car and talk it out with the irrational driver.

    I think that he conveyed a good lesson in explaining to his son that there are some people out there that blow things out of proportion and are a danger to themselves and society. I am sure things would go over much better if you were there to give the POS a hug on the side of the road to calm his road rage.
    LOl.....funny read and good points.

    But.....yes and no. I have made mistakes driving and pissed people off, but when I apologized it instantly changed the aggressors demeanor. But then of course there are those who are looking for the fight and no amount of apology will appease them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    So you showed your kid that it is acceptable to break the law? Both kids adults get hit and injured, killed, or maimed because so many drivers consider stop signs and red lights to be 'suggestions' instead of law.

    The lesson you might have tried to convey to your son:
    "Daddy messed up and ran that red light; the angry man might have lost a loved one when someone else did just that. I should apologize and try harder to obey the law."
    I really don't mean to be rude but GOOD GRIEF. I am sure an apology would have went over well with the enraged man that was following him for miles. I tell you what, next time you are being chased down by some POS who didn't like you pulling in front of them, take your car to the side of the road, get out of your car and talk it out with the irrational driver.

    I think that he conveyed a good lesson in explaining to his son that there are some people out there that blow things out of proportion and are a danger to themselves and society. I am sure things would go over much better if you were there to give the POS a hug on the side of the road to calm his road rage.
    The OP ran the red light. This angered someone who very clearly overreacted to it. Nonetheless, the fact remains that if the OP had simply obeyed the law there would have been no situation whatsoever. The OP would have been happy, the motorist who became angry would not have become angry, pedestrians wouldn’t have been endangered, and we wouldn’t be debating whether or not the OP put himself into a situation of his own doing.

    When I lived in Tacoma, I saw a lot of near misses and there were many cases of pedestrians get launched right off the crosswalk because of drivers who feel the law applies only to ‘other drivers’ and not to themselves. Looking left for traffic so you can turn right without stopping means anyone walking or riding to the right is unobservable. That isn’t my imagination, I’ve seen it. Is that a good lesson for a son?

    I’m not defending the angry motorist, after all, none of us including the OP know what kind of day he’d already had, but I’m also not going to defend the OP since he created a situation where one previously didn’t exist.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Mainsail wrote:
    The OP ran the red light. This angered someone who very clearly overreacted to it. Nonetheless, the fact remains that if the OP had simply obeyed the law there would have been no situation whatsoever. The OP would have been happy, the motorist who became angry would not have become angry, pedestrians wouldn’t have been endangered, and we wouldn’t be debating whether or not the OP put himself into a situation of his own doing.

    When I lived in Tacoma, I saw a lot of near misses and there were many cases of pedestrians get launched right off the crosswalk because of drivers who feel the law applies only to ‘other drivers’ and not to themselves. Looking left for traffic so you can turn right without stopping means anyone walking or riding to the right is unobservable. That isn’t my imagination, I’ve seen it. Is that a good lesson for a son?

    I’m not defending the angry motorist, after all, none of us including the OP know what kind of day he’d already had, but I’m also not going to defend the OP since he created a situation where one previously didn’t exist.
    Let's start with "pedestrians." Were there pedestrians around? If there are no pedestrians corssing the street at the time you can not have "endagered pedestrians."

    Let's say that the OP actually did stop fora couple ofseconds before turning, all of us on here would be assuming that the driver would not have gone ballistic. Should the OP have stopped for a second or two before turning, yes. I am not sure how many of us do more than a rolling stop when in the same situation from time to time.

    I am not sure how old his son is but his son is likely not understanding the subtleties of driving other than some POS tailgating them while enraged. I have stopped to make a right turn plenty of times where I pull out and the person already driving down the road speeds up or goes out of their way to let me know they are pissed that I am in front of them. There have been times that I judged the speed of the traffic wrong and pulled out when I didn't have neough time to get up to speed but who hasn't. I almost always follow up my error witha a wve of hand. If I get some lunatic who is freaking out by driving erratically and swearing at me I just smile and continue driving.

    Your response is a perfect example of how perfectionistic American society has become when it comes to imperfect people making mistakes. It completely robs even reasonable people from realizing that crap happens, move on. Now people are forced to toil over a rolling stop as if that spawned the road rage incident. I am sure the POS following him had a chip on his shoulder way before the rolling stop.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  21. #21
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Sylvia Plath wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    The OP ran the red light. This angered someone who very clearly overreacted to it. Nonetheless, the fact remains that if the OP had simply obeyed the law there would have been no situation whatsoever. The OP would have been happy, the motorist who became angry would not have become angry, pedestrians wouldn’t have been endangered, and we wouldn’t be debating whether or not the OP put himself into a situation of his own doing.

    When I lived in Tacoma, I saw a lot of near misses and there were many cases of pedestrians get launched right off the crosswalk because of drivers who feel the law applies only to ‘other drivers’ and not to themselves. Looking left for traffic so you can turn right without stopping means anyone walking or riding to the right is unobservable. That isn’t my imagination, I’ve seen it. Is that a good lesson for a son?

    I’m not defending the angry motorist, after all, none of us including the OP know what kind of day he’d already had, but I’m also not going to defend the OP since he created a situation where one previously didn’t exist.
    Let's start with "pedestrians." Were there pedestrians around? If there are no pedestrians corssing the street at the time you can not have "endagered pedestrians."

    Let's say that the OP actually did stop fora couple ofseconds before turning, all of us on here would be assuming that the driver would not have gone ballistic. Should the OP have stopped for a second or two before turning, yes. I am not sure how many of us do more than a rolling stop when in the same situation from time to time.

    I am not sure how old his son is but his son is likely not understanding the subtleties of driving other than some POS tailgating them while enraged. I have stopped to make a right turn plenty of times where I pull out and the person already driving down the road speeds up or goes out of their way to let me know they are pissed that I am in front of them. There have been times that I judged the speed of the traffic wrong and pulled out when I didn't have neough time to get up to speed but who hasn't. I almost always follow up my error witha a wve of hand. If I get some lunatic who is freaking out by driving erratically and swearing at me I just smile and continue driving.

    Your response is a perfect example of how perfectionistic American society has become when it comes to imperfect people making mistakes. It completely robs even reasonable people from realizing that crap happens, move on. Now people are forced to toil over a rolling stop as if that spawned the road rage incident. I am sure the POS following him had a chip on his shoulder way before the rolling stop.
    It has nothing to do with perfectionism. The law says stop, not slow, stop. When I was driving that Crown Vic I got a laugh out of how people would start to run a red light or stop sign, then slam on the brakes when they saw what they thought was a police car. That means it isn’t about perfection- because their reaction proved they knew full well that they were breaking the law.

    Your response is a perfect example of how perfectionistic American society has become when it comes to imperfect people making mistakes.
    The OP didn’t make a mistake! He willfully and intentionally broke the law. We’re all imperfect; I agree wholeheartedly, but running a red light, regardless of the justification, is not an unintentional error.

    I also find it amusing that you refer to me as a perfectionist and refer to the angry driver as a POS. You have declared him unworthy of humanity, a judgment which is only reasonable after you have achieved perfection yourself.

    The fact remains; the OP created the situation. Blaming others for your mistakes is a sign of immaturity.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Let me try to help clarify. Both of you are correct. (Mainsail and Sylvia)

    In court, in life we would look at one additional fact.

    Did the OP act with malice?

    It is unlikely that the OP set out that morning, afternoon... with the intent to run the stop sign. While he did clearly break the law, and he stated so in his post, he did not do so with malice. Therefore, it is important to note what Mainsail has stated, the entire event could of been averted had the OP followed the law.

    However, since there was no malice, it is important to discuss what occured after the stop sign was ilegally run.....
    Live Free or Die!

  23. #23
    Regular Member HeesBonafide's Avatar
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    I guess, "not coming to a complete stop" and "running a red light" are two different scenarios in my mind.

    Did THIS event CAUSE THE event? I don't know since I didn't sit and listen to the enraged driver. Could it have? Certainly. For all I know, he was upset that my audi was much faster than his ford and he was feeling inadequate at that moment.

    Where there pedestrians around? no.

    If you want to get "technical" about it, yes, I broke the law because I didn't come to a "complete" stop. Was this person "right" or "justified" in their reaction or behavior -- absolutely not (unless he was a cop).

    Oh, and no malice was intended, inferred or even comtemplated --I would have gotten out of the car then.


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