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Thread: Dang, I got throwed out of the Bristol VA Mall for OC

  1. #1
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    So I had been at the Bristol Mall in Bristol, VA for about an hour, the final stop was at Belks. Was standing beside the wife looking at clothing when I noticed an older security guard making a bee line for me. He approached and told me guns were not allowed in the mall and I needed to take it to the car.

    I said no problem, but I didn't see any signs. he told me all doors were posted so I ask him to escort me to the door, we get outside and guess what? NO SIGNS I looked at him with a questioning look and he said the main door is posted. I told him I use several doors and never seen a sign. Told him sorry and that I wouldn't be back. I took a walk around to the one main door and there is a small sign way off to the side of the Mall entrance that has several "rules" one being no guns.

    At one point he did ask if I was a cop and I just told him that I could not discuss who I was with him but I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs. I have been here multiple times with no problems until today.

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    People, please don't ask for places to be posted. Just leave and talk to management about allowing firearms. Asking places to be posted really screws over people that HAVE to go somewhere and just CC to places such as this.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Second GULCer.

    The lack of posted signs is something one uses IF one is charged with a crime or misdemeanor for carrying in a place and needs to defend oneself. I would expect that to be VERY rare in Virginia. That is, you might be asked to leave a place, but I seriously doubt a police officer would actually charge you with a crime if you left when asked. Mall security certainly isn't going to write you a summons.

    Asking that signs be posted to make it "easier" for law-abiding gun owners is asking for all doors to be prominently posted. That is not a result we want.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Have them post this sign:



  5. #5
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    GULCer wrote:
    People, please don't ask for places to be posted.
    +1
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Resqu2 wrote:
    I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs.
    no,no,no


    Carry On.

    Ed

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    ed wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs.
    no,no,no


    The way I see it, is if they are anti gun then I want to know it soI can spend my money at a place that isn't. I don't like looking like I'm breaking their rules on purpose, I look for signs and will leave if a place is posted. Too many choices of other places to spend my money at.


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    Don't you get it? Sure, YOU might not care if you can't CC into a location after they post it but EVERYONE else does care. It is being selfish to only care about what YOU want with regards to these issues.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    GULCer wrote:


    Don't you get it? Sure, YOU might not care if you can't CC into a location after they post it but EVERYONE else does care. It is being selfish to only care about what YOU want with regards to these issues.
    Wellllllll......Not exactly everyone.

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    peter nap wrote:
    Wellllllll......Not exactly everyone.
    OK, everyone that has a permit (or is going to be getting a permit after July 1 because they no longer have the excuse they've been using all these years)...

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    Resqu2 wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs.
    no,no,no


    The way I see it, is if they are anti gun then I want to know it soI can spend my money at a place that isn't. I don't like looking like I'm breaking their rules on purpose, I look for signs and will leave if a place is posted. Too many choices of other places to spend my money at.
    But you already know about this place.

    Do you need a sign to remind you again? What purpose could it possibly serve now?

  12. #12
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    GULCer wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Wellllllll......Not exactly everyone.
    OK, everyone that has a permit (or is going to be getting a permit after July 1 because they no longer have the excuse they've been using all these years)...
    That's a little better.
    The "Don't push the sign" is reasonable and I generally follow it, but it is really only for the benefit for CC'ers.

    I fully understand what Resqu2 is saying. I'd rather know where I'm unwelcome before I go there.

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    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs.
    no,no,no


    The way I see it, is if they are anti gun then I want to know it soI can spend my money at a place that isn't. I don't like looking like I'm breaking their rules on purpose, I look for signs and will leave if a place is posted. Too many choices of other places to spend my money at.
    But you already know about this place.

    Do you need a sign to remind you again? What purpose could it possibly serve now?
    I'm not contacting anyone and I'm not going back. but I stand by my commet about not knowing where we are not wanted. It also doesn't look good on gun owners when it looks like we are ignoring the wishes of property owners.

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    Resqu2 wrote:
    Glock27Bill wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    ed wrote:
    Resqu2 wrote:
    I would be speaking with Mgmt about better signs.
    no,no,no


    The way I see it, is if they are anti gun then I want to know it soI can spend my money at a place that isn't. I don't like looking like I'm breaking their rules on purpose, I look for signs and will leave if a place is posted. Too many choices of other places to spend my money at.
    But you already know about this place.

    Do you need a sign to remind you again? What purpose could it possibly serve now?
    I'm not contacting anyone and I'm not going back. but I stand by my commet about not knowing where we are not wanted. It also doesn't look good on gun owners when it looks like we are ignoring the wishes of property owners.
    I hear ya.

    It can be embarrassing, and we are all law-abiding folks who do not need to be called out in public.

    The flip side is that some like to cc, and if places are not well-marked, then that facilitates things for us.

    And once we've been called out, adding signs ain't gonna help us. We just don't go back (as you've decided).

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Another point is this..

    First.. it is my opinion that every gun owner in Virginia should be a paying member ($25.00) per yer of the VCDL (Virginia Citizen's Defense League). You can even join online at VCDL.ORG and you can recoup your $25.00 annual fee if you use these discounts: http://www.vcdl.org/static/discounts.html

    Many reasons that the gun laws we have (and DON'T have) is because of the organization and planning of the VCDL. I don't maybe agree with them 100% of the time.. but I do about 95% and many here do too.

    This is from their web page: http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html

    - - -

    We have a "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL POLICY." NEVER ask if it is OK or for permission to carry anywhere. Don't make an issue of the fact you are carrying. Don't cause problems for future patrons, or even for yourself. The point is, you want to have your defensive tool with you. No one needs to know. Don't make a big deal out of it. Try to be low key.

    KNOW THE LAW IF YOU ARE GOING TO CARRY OPENLY. PLEASE, don't cause problems that you will then expect others, or us to correct. Download and carry the following letters so you can backup your position that open carry is legal, and open carry is the only way to legally carry in a restaurant or club with a license to sell alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/VASP_OPEN.pdf

    Finally, if some restaurant employee still wants you to put your gun in your car after getting the letters, VERY POLITELY explain that it is unsafe to leave the gun unattended in the car, especially since a criminal could now see you putting it into your car and steal it. Explain that you don't feel comfortable doing that, so they are FORCING you to leave. If that is the case, give your server a few dollars tip, unless they are the person telling you to leave. If they decide to allow you to finish your meal, be sure to tip handsomely.

    In other words; please don't give your hard earned money to a restaurant that is going to disarm you!




    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    Another point is this..

    First.. it is my opinion that every gun owner in Virginia should be a paying member ($25.00) per yer of the VCDL (Virginia Citizen's Defense League). You can even join online at VCDL.ORG and you can recoup your $25.00 annual fee if you use these discounts: http://www.vcdl.org/static/discounts.html

    Many reasons that the gun laws we have (and DON'T have) is because of the organization and planning of the VCDL. I don't maybe agree with them 100% of the time.. but I do about 95% and many here do too.

    This is from their web page: http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html

    - - -

    We have a "DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL POLICY." NEVER ask if it is OK or for permission to carry anywhere. Don't make an issue of the fact you are carrying. Don't cause problems for future patrons, or even for yourself. The point is, you want to have your defensive tool with you. No one needs to know. Don't make a big deal out of it. Try to be low key.

    KNOW THE LAW IF YOU ARE GOING TO CARRY OPENLY. PLEASE, don't cause problems that you will then expect others, or us to correct. Download and carry the following letters so you can backup your position that open carry is legal, and open carry is the only way to legally carry in a restaurant or club with a license to sell alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/ABC_Letter.pdf

    http://www.vcdl.org/letters/VASP_OPEN.pdf

    Finally, if some restaurant employee still wants you to put your gun in your car after getting the letters, VERY POLITELY explain that it is unsafe to leave the gun unattended in the car, especially since a criminal could now see you putting it into your car and steal it. Explain that you don't feel comfortable doing that, so they are FORCING you to leave. If that is the case, give your server a few dollars tip, unless they are the person telling you to leave. If they decide to allow you to finish your meal, be sure to tip handsomely.

    In other words; please don't give your hard earned money to a restaurant that is going to disarm you!



    Ed has a good point.
    Depending on the year, I may agree to 95%, this year it's only ticking about 65%...but it's still the best organization out there.

    The caveat VCDL put up really pertains to courtesy for fellow gunowners. That line gets strained at times but hopefully most of us will continue to respect the needs of ALL gun owners and not one particular niche or style of carry.

    In other words, bend a little.


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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Anyone EVER see a mall that's OC friendly?




    Nah, me neither.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Anyone EVER see a mall that's OC friendly?




    Nah, me neither.
    Good Point!

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Anyone EVER see a mall that's OC friendly?




    Nah, me neither.
    The last I knew, Spotsylvania Town Center's sign and policy was "no illegal guns". Reports are that they will ask you to leave if you are seen OC, but the sign would seem to legally permit CC if you are permitted.

    That's one of the best I've seen, other than no policy at all.

    TFred

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    I prefer not going to malls any way. Over priced, and many over crowded, the only thing worse than road rage is mall rage.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    Anyone EVER see a mall that's OC friendly?




    Nah, me neither.
    I've OC'd at Regency Square Mall many times, and as recently as last weekend with any problem.


    James Reynolds

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    I have a hard time with the signage, no signage issue. First off there is a lesser of two evils, permit carry only which I do not agree with but at least it’s not a complete ban. Than the total ban, the total ban is of course the worst of the two evils. My question is, and I do not mean to stir the pot and I may grab at a nerve with this, but for some, it often seems that they can justify carrying concealed in a questionable rules location such as many mall locations and the outcome would be no difference between a pro-gun anti gun establishment. Why should these places have the luxury of not taking a true stance either way, but yet have no problem confronting a gun owner and making them look like a fool just because they are not posted? I would consider this to them playing the fence. As I do have a CHP a general rule of thumb for me is if I can’t openly carry there, I wouldn’t conceal there. Granted there are those time to be prudent, but as well to be choosy of where and when to exercise my prudence. If the laws were different I may think differently but I don’t. To me a criminal, especially a known one probably would not CC because that would be a better chance for them to be noticed for illegal position, I have nothing to hide, and do not see where I should have to. I do not mind going out of my way by either going a little farther, or going to more than one store if I have to and give my patronage to a store that is more deserving any way. I understand there are those times we may have to go into an non gun venue, but saying that that should be a manner of personal preference and circumstance rather than just convenience. I really don't see how not making these places pick which side of the fence they are on actually helps gun owners as a whole, because it is anti gun places that actually subscribe and pay contributions to things like the Brady bunch and other screwed up organisations and not knowing there intentions we could be helping them do such.

  23. #23
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    I see two sides to this.

    One side is that clear posting mean that we are not placed in an embarrassing "gotcha" situation, and we clearly know who is not on our side.

    The other side is that obscure posting may not be enforceable, or at least means that we can carry in such places since notification has been inconsistent (or non-existent at some points of entry).

    And the lack of clear posting forces the owners to reject paying customers face to face. The can SEE the lost revenue, which may eventually sway their policies.

    Malls are a unique beast.

    Mall ownership may be anti-gun, while many tenant stores may not be.

    So you're not doing business directly with the mall itself, although a portion of your spending with their tenants makes its way into their pockets and the causes they may support.

    To me, it's like the recent Fuddrucker's issue, although this is contained within a single entity. Their no guns policy does not apply to franchisees (from what I've read), although a portion of your spending with franchisees makes its way into corporate's pockets and the causes they may support.

    Our choices are not always clear cut.

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    My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

    On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.

  25. #25
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    NovaCop10 wrote:
    My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

    On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.
    Mabe it is pittely and everyone of course has their own opinions and ideas, but personaly even though what you say may be true, and I don't doubt it. I still would rather give them what they so wish. My 2.00 may not ammount to much in it's self, but that 2.00 they won't get.

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