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Dang, I got throwed out of the Bristol VA Mall for OC

kennys

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I have a hard time with the signage, no signage issue. First off there is a lesser of two evils, permit carry only which I do not agree with but at least it’s not a complete ban. Than the total ban, the total ban is of course the worst of the two evils. My question is, and I do not mean to stir the pot and I may grab at a nerve with this, but for some, it often seems that they can justify carrying concealed in a questionable rules location such as many mall locations and the outcome would be no difference between a pro-gun anti gun establishment. Why should these places have the luxury of not taking a true stance either way, but yet have no problem confronting a gun owner and making them look like a fool just because they are not posted? I would consider this to them playing the fence. As I do have a CHP a general rule of thumb for me is if I can’t openly carry there, I wouldn’t conceal there. Granted there are those time to be prudent, but as well to be choosy of where and when to exercise my prudence. If the laws were different I may think differently but I don’t. To me a criminal, especially a known one probably would not CC because that would be a better chance for them to be noticed for illegal position, I have nothing to hide, and do not see where I should have to. I do not mind going out of my way by either going a little farther, or going to more than one store if I have to and give my patronage to a store that is more deserving any way. I understand there are those times we may have to go into an non gun venue, but saying that that should be a manner of personal preference and circumstance rather than just convenience. I really don't see how not making these places pick which side of the fence they are on actually helps gun owners as a whole, because it is anti gun places that actually subscribe and pay contributions to things like the Brady bunch and other screwed up organisations and not knowing there intentions we could be helping them do such.
 

Glock27Bill

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I see two sides to this.

One side is that clear posting mean that we are not placed in an embarrassing "gotcha" situation, and we clearly know who is not on our side.

The other side is that obscure posting may not be enforceable, or at least means that we can carry in such places since notification has been inconsistent (or non-existent at some points of entry).

And the lack of clear posting forces the owners to reject paying customers face to face. The can SEE the lost revenue, which may eventually sway their policies.

Malls are a unique beast.

Mall ownership may be anti-gun, while many tenant stores may not be.

So you're not doing business directly with the mall itself, although a portion of your spending with their tenants makes its way into their pockets and the causes they may support.

To me, it's like the recent Fuddrucker's issue, although this is contained within a single entity. Their no guns policy does not apply to franchisees (from what I've read), although a portion of your spending with franchisees makes its way into corporate's pockets and the causes they may support.

Our choices are not always clear cut.
 

NovaCop

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My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.
 

kennys

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NovaCop10 wrote:
My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.
Mabe it is pittely and everyone of course has their own opinions and ideas, but personaly even though what you say may be true, and I don't doubt it. I still would rather give them what they so wish. My 2.00 may not ammount to much in it's self, but that 2.00 they won't get.
 

Glock27Bill

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kennys wrote:
NovaCop10 wrote:
My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.
Mabe it is pittely and everyone of course has their own opinions and ideas, but personaly even though what you say may be true, and I don't doubt it. I still would rather give them what they so wish. My 2.00 may not ammount to much in it's self, but that 2.00 they won't get.
I gotta agree.

Why would I break their rules to give them money?

But honestly, I'm on the fence about malls where the tenants might not be anti-2A.
 

kennys

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Ruther Glen Va
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Glock27Bill wrote:
kennys wrote:
NovaCop10 wrote:
My opinion for lawful citizens such as yourself regarding this issue with signs and carrying a weapon: If they ban you from open carrying inside by word of mouth or signs, just conceal carry (with a permit of course). It is not illegal for you to ignore the "no guns" sign on private property. The worst thing that can happen is that they will ask you to leave and you leave without giving them your business, or they call the police and they will ask you to leave (no biggie). That's the biggest consequence (obviously not leaving might be grounds for trespassing). Personal safety vs being asked to leave..... the smarter decision is obvious. If you are conceal carrying, then the chance of them ever knowing is slim to none, unless you need to use your gun (which is slim to none as well).

On a side note, I wish the no gun policy malls have would apply to LEO's...then I would have an excuse not to have to waste hours at the mall with the girlfriend.
Maybe it is pittely and everyone of course has their own opinions and ideas, but personally even though what you say may be true, and I don't doubt it. I still would rather give them what they so wish. My 2.00 may not amount to much in it's self, but that 2.00 they won't get.
I gotta agree.

Why would I break their rules to give them money?

But honestly, I'm on the fence about malls where the tenants might not be anti-2A.
That is usually when I wright a letter to see how they stand. I may be incorrect but if they have their own separate entrance I believe tenants rights would trump that of the mall. I am not sure about this and would appreciate any comment as to someone who may know for sure.
 

Voice of Reason

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Most of you miss the point of what the mall is doing. They try to meet ALL customers halfway and the general perception of the public is that guns in a public mall is bad. People get shot in malls. I know. .. I know your answer...if a responsible gun owner had been there...yes, I know. The general perception (perception is reality whether we like it or not) is that gun owners are like the lady who took who kids to school and had her picture taken with her gun holstered. Gun owners are wackos.

Here is the point and I know. Most malls don't care if you CC. However, don't let the weapon be seen. Period. If it is you run the risks. Keep it concealed. There are no alarms at the front door. Just keep the weapon under wraps. If something does occur Security and management will be glad a responsible owner was there and maybe just maybe the media hype against gun owners in public places will change.

Just my 2 cents
 

peter nap

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Voice of Reason wrote:
Most of you miss the point of what the mall is doing. They try to meet ALL customers halfway and the general perception of the public is that guns in a public mall is bad. People get shot in malls. I know. .. I know your answer...if a responsible gun owner had been there...yes, I know. The general perception (perception is reality whether we like it or not) is that gun owners are like the lady who took who kids to school and had her picture taken with her gun holstered. Gun owners are wackos.

Here is the point and I know. Most malls don't care if you CC. However, don't let the weapon be seen. Period. If it is you run the risks. Keep it concealed. There are no alarms at the front door. Just keep the weapon under wraps. If something does occur Security and management will be glad a responsible owner was there and maybe just maybe the media hype against gun owners in public places will change.

Just my 2 cents
You're making a very incorrect assumption that everyone has a CHP. Or you suggesting those without, break the law?
 

t33j

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Dec 28, 2009
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peter nap wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:
Most of you miss the point of what the mall is doing. They try to meet ALL customers halfway and the general perception of the public is that guns in a public mall is bad. People get shot in malls. I know. .. I know your answer...if a responsible gun owner had been there...yes, I know. The general perception (perception is reality whether we like it or not) is that gun owners are like the lady who took who kids to school and had her picture taken with her gun holstered. Gun owners are wackos.

Here is the point and I know. Most malls don't care if you CC. However, don't let the weapon be seen. Period. If it is you run the risks. Keep it concealed. There are no alarms at the front door. Just keep the weapon under wraps. If something does occur Security and management will be glad a responsible owner was there and maybe  just maybe the media hype against gun owners in public places will change.

Just my 2 cents

 

 
You're making a very incorrect assumption that everyone has a CHP. Or you suggesting those without, break the law?
On top of that, it's my understanding that we're trying to change perceptions here.

P.S. .308th post :celebrate
 

kennys

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t33j wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Voice of Reason wrote:
Snip:If something does occur Security and management will be glad a responsible owner was there and maybe just maybe the media hype against gun owners in public places will change.

Just my 2 cents
You're making a very incorrect assumption that everyone has a CHP. Or you suggesting those without, break the law?
On top of that, it's my understanding that we're trying to change perceptions here.

P.S. .308th post :celebrate

That is a very speculative assumption, it could go either way. Even if an incident happened where a gun owner saved many, but something unfortunate did happen and an innocent got caught in the cross fire or something like that, do you think the mall would take the gun owners side? In all thinking they should, but saying that, the way people like to sue these days I would think themall would probably take the avenue, that the gun owner was in the wrong any way. I would rather know for certain they are on my side rather than be lulled by a false sense of speculation.

As Nap also said, some don't have permits. Permit does not make a better and experiencedperson. I haveknown many non permit holders that I would trust morethan some permit holders.

Also just like recent, in Richmond gun violence floods the media. This is all the public gets as perception of guns, If you openly carry and you have no issues, guess what, this gives a good perception. The more the public can see the more they get used to it. Not to mention why should we have to hide it or sneak around, we are not criminals? Criminals know if they go into a mall they are going to conceal.
 
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