Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 58

Thread: Law Enforcement Open Carry Never Challenged

  1. #1
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    It's not hard to imagine the "anti-OC" group complaining about the OC of Alabama citizens as being "dangerous", but they have no problem with the OC of LEO's throughout the state.

    Anyone can go to YouTube and see the actions of LEO's where accidental discharges (AD) happens in the performance of their duties. Why is it that a well-trained, armed citizen is more of a risk to the public than a "supposedly well-trained LEO"?

    Most of us take our firearms, safety and shooting, seriously. Some of us have even been trained in the military. We are just as much a help to prevent crime, as a LEO. In fact, at my last reading, any Alabama citizen has the right to effect an arrest on someone committing a felony (citizens arrest). You can't do this on a misdeamor, so you better know the difference.

    Maybe it would help if we had badges we could put next to our weapons that would ease the conscience of the average citizen. Maybe a golden or silver badge with the words, Open Carry Citizen, would calm their fears.

    What do you think?
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  2. #2
    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Leeds, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    786

    Post imported post

    I'm more concerned with the 'on-purpose' discharges I've seen on YouTube. For instance, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tuAhoTPXEk ) Unless you want to claim an officer drawing a gun and shooting a man on the ground in handcuffs was accidental. Negligent, maybe, but definitely not accidental.

    Honestly, though? I think a badge is a horrible idea because 1) It reinforces the stereotype of gun owners as vigilantes, and 2) I would imagine that even LEO that are okay with (or at least not vocal against) OC would be put off by us running around with fake badges on.
    There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away, mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting. I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing. Doomed to crumble, unless we grow and strengthen our communication. -Tool, "Schism"

  3. #3
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the reply. I can certainly see your point.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    AL Ranger wrote:
    Maybe it would help if we had badges we could put next to our weapons that would ease the conscience of the average citizen. Maybe a golden or silver badge with the words, Open Carry Citizen, would calm their fears.

    What do you think?
    I think that is not a good idea. While it might cause the public to be "less alarmed" it comes dangerously close to Impersonating A Peace Officer (13A-10-11), a felony.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  5. #5
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Eight Mile, , USA
    Posts
    234

    Post imported post

    Kind of corny, but what about if you pinned your pistol permit in the same fashion as a badge? Sure it would have your personal info on it, but then again maybe it would work the same way? I don't know.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    AL Ranger wrote:
    Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.
    And if you think LEOs are unfriendly because you have a gun, start walking around with a badge and you're going to find you need a friend behind you with a video camera for the confrontation. Your civil rights will be violated in a most egregious manner and if there isn't a camera rolling....
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    A sandwich made of knuckles, Hoover, Alabama
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    Kirbinator wrote:
    AL Ranger wrote:
    Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.
    And if you think LEOs are unfriendly because you have a gun, start walking around with a badge and you're going to find you need a friend behind you with a video camera for the confrontation. Your civil rights will be violated in a most egregious manner and if there isn't a camera rolling....
    Don't carry a police badge. That will always be a bad idea. Why not Open Carry with the badge below? It's legal. It's like $20 on a website I found. LOL

  9. #9
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    That's what I was thinking about. I was in a Huntsville Wal-Mart yesterday and saw an Alabama A&M University security officer, uniform, gun, handcuffsand gun belt, etc. either shopping or walking around. He was talking to people, friends I guess. He's campus security, not a state peace officer.

    Most people are scared to see a gun without a badge. That is what causes the people to call the cops, run off to management in stores and restaurants, etc. The A&M cop had no authority outside the University campus, just as a Park Ranger has no authority outside the Park or an animal control officer has outside the performance of his job.

    According to Alabama state law, every citizen has the right to effect a citizens arrest upon seeing or having knowledge of a felony, not misdeamors. We have legal powers of arrest and in the wording of the Alabama Constitution (article 1 secton 26, "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state" we are de facto peace officers.

    A badge would set aside fears and if it is legal to wear a badge to properly identify yourself as a legal OC citizen, then why not do it. An animal control officer probably has a badge and no one checks to see just what king of "policeman" he happens to be. When they ask him he just says I work for the state and its legal. We can do the same thing. If the get close, see the "Law-Abiding Citizen" badge and ask about it, according to the law, its legal.It may upset the police, if they want to consider themselves "special citizens" but they have to obey the laws wheteher they like it or not.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  10. #10
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    There is a permit carry holder you can place around you neck and wear under your shirt as the police do with their ID's. I think the best way to do that is to create an Open Carry ID with your name, address, pertinent info and a photo. That way you have a picture ID ready and simply place your CWP, if you have one, behind it. If the cops approach you, or see you get out of your car with a weapon, you can have some ID handy with your picture on it.

    The weather is getting warmer, the idea of open carry is better than trying to hide a bulky firearm and extra ammo. The easier we can make this for ourselves, the police and the Alabama population, the better it is!
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    AL Ranger wrote:
    That's what I was thinking about. I was in a Huntsville Wal-Mart yesterday and saw an Alabama A&M University security officer, uniform, gun, handcuffsand gun belt, etc. either shopping or walking around. He was talking to people, friends I guess. He's campus security, not a state peace officer.

    Most people are scared to see a gun without a badge. That is what causes the people to call the cops, run off to management in stores and restaurants, etc. The A&M cop had no authority outside the University campus, just as a Park Ranger has no authority outside the Park or an animal control officer has outside the performance of his job.

    According to Alabama state law, every citizen has the right to effect a citizens arrest upon seeing or having knowledge of a felony, not misdeamors. We have legal powers of arrest and in the wording of the Alabama Constitution (article 1 secton 26, "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state" we are de facto peace officers.
    Double check that before you consider testing his authority. In Alabama, a peace officer anywhere in the state may arrest you for breaking the law, but the charges have to be filed in the jurisdiction that the deviation was committed in. UAH, UAB, UA, etc. receive their charter from the legislature as well, which grants them State of Alabama license plates. If you require further justification, consider that UAB has no fixed campus. And that a state trooper also has State of Alabama license plates.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  12. #12
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    I don't plan on testing anybody's authority. I wouldn't do that. I was just making the point about how most people understand law enforcement types and guns. I have no problem with state and local LEO's or armed security (universities, Wells Fargo, etc.) The more involved in law enforcement, the better. The large criminal presence in most of our large cities is because law enforcement tried to do the job by themselves and found out that doesn't work.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    Here's another thought I got from someone else when I bounced it off of them. If you sense that people are getting agitated by your presence, or you find out the police have been called, grab your cellphone and call 911 and inform them that you're the one that the report has been made about and that you're legally armed.

    The first person who calls is generally trusted.

    "Be the first one to call 911 tell them the guy with the gun is the good guy - make them tell it to the cops."
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    AL Ranger wrote:
    The large criminal presence in most of our large cities is because law enforcement tried to do the job by themselves and found out that doesn't work.
    And due to the requirements of the job, Birmingham was forced to lower the bar. Hence, we have armed thugs driving around in police cars. But don't expect the off-duty cop in uniform doing security work to respond to any crime committed in his presence.

    I should get off my soap box. It's a difficult job to do, and unfortunately, we're more likely to wind up in contact with LEOs due to the exercise our rights.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  15. #15
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    The only problem with OC or CC is that many people do it to be different or stand out in a crowd. They don't take their responsibilities seriously. As you stated, we have many new officers because the bar was lowered which makes this dangerous for the cities and the citizens. Many of us have been trained, either through years of shooting and/or the military or have police backgrounds. The armed citizen, the Neighborhood Watch programs, armed security forces and the LEO's can really work together. But, we have those among us who see their guns as an excuse to show off or prove that they are special or more important. Those are the ones that cast a bad shadow across the rest of us. Even police officers have to beware of the rogue cop going "postal" and it getting caught on camera.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  16. #16
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    196

    Post imported post

    Badges are pretty much always a bad idea IMO. I've seen many an old thread in other states talk about OC badges and they're pretty convincing that it's just not the best way to divert negative attention. Dressin' up a bit, being confident and cool-headed, these are the ways of the jedi.

    :P
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Urban Skeet City, Alabama
    Posts
    897

    Post imported post

    Apparently OC with assault rifles doesn't raise an eyebrow in this town.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Hollowpoint38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    A sandwich made of knuckles, Hoover, Alabama
    Posts
    387

    Post imported post

    AL Ranger wrote:
    The only problem with OC or CC is that many people do it to be different or stand out in a crowd. They don't take their responsibilities seriously. As you stated, we have many new officers because the bar was lowered which makes this dangerous for the cities and the citizens. Many of us have been trained, either through years of shooting and/or the military or have police backgrounds. The armed citizen, the Neighborhood Watch programs, armed security forces and the LEO's can really work together. But, we have those among us who see their guns as an excuse to show off or prove that they are special or more important. Those are the ones that cast a bad shadow across the rest of us. Even police officers have to beware of the rogue cop going "postal" and it getting caught on camera.
    You just hit the nail on the head. There are those people out there trying to "show off" or "be cool" because they have a gun. That type of "showboating" hurts everyone else. When I was a little kid I thought it would be "cool" to have a gun and OC like cops, but once I grew up, matured, and took on more responsibility, I decided to carry for the protection of myself, my family, and my community. I OC, not just because it's my right to do so, but because it gets so hot in the summer and I don't feel comfortable leaving my protection at home just so I can wear summer clothes.

    You made made a good point. Thanx for the input!

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063

    Post imported post

    Jonathon Norris wrote:
    Badges are pretty much always a bad idea IMO. I've seen many an old thread in other states talk about OC badges and they're pretty convincing that it's just not the best way to divert negative attention. Dressin' up a bit, being confident and cool-headed, these are the ways of the jedi.

    :P
    I agree. The point is that we are ordinary citizens, going about our daily business, exercising a right as routine as speaking our minds. Badges would make us look like attention-seekers. I hope none of us are that.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Jonathon Norris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    196

    Post imported post

    ...and yes, tank tops and martian antennae ARE "dressing up a bit" for me. LOL
    A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
    But have his weapons to hand:
    He knows not when he may need a spear,
    Or what menace meet on the road.

    - Odin
    The Havamal

  21. #21
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    First, as responsible gun owners supporting our God-given rights guaranteed by the US and Alabama stateConstitutions, we should get our terminology right. It come down to one or more of us being interviewed for the nightly news. We need to know guns and our rights.

    Second,our rights are God-given, Constitutionally-guaranteed. I stress this for a legal reason. If you say your rights are "constitutional rights", to take them away all they have to do is change the Constitution. If they are God-given, constitutionally guaranteed, then changing the Constitutioncan't not take away your rights since they come from God.

    Third, assault weapons are full-automatic. Semi-auto weapons are not assault weapons. The phrase was created to scare the uninformed public. Unfortunately, even so-called professional newscasters don't know the differences either. We need to know what we are talking about if we are going to inform the public.

    If there are any other points you think need to be added to this list, please do so!
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  22. #22
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    The citizens I've seen in the You Tube videos against OC already think we are "stupid, showboating rednecks". If you walk around with greasy hair, a dirty John Deere hat and "wife-beater" T-shirt with a gun on your hip, it isn't going to help the cause any.
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  23. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063

    Post imported post

    To your first post, we are the choir.

    To your second, wearing handguns an going on the news IS is helping. More and more people are seeing it happen. More and more people are choosing to do it.

    The main reason people don't is a fear of being perceived a wacko. All the more reason for us to seem as normal as possible, just exercising a right just as routinely as we speak freely.

  24. #24
    Regular Member AL Ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    238

    Post imported post

    So true! Appear normal, friendly and intelligent (hopefully).
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    Worst part of a Badge, is the fact it would make people think the training the
    state gave them to get the badge makes them a safe responsible gun owner.
    Lets face it, government panders to the lowest filth, not the highest ideals.

    Now I wouldn't mind the option of having a federal carry anywhere anytime
    anyhow badge myself. Would even join BHO's civilian army for it.

    So we don't need badges, we need trained officers to respect the law.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •