Law Enforcement Open Carry Never Challenged

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It's not hard to imagine the "anti-OC" group complaining about the OC of Alabama citizens as being "dangerous", but they have no problem with the OC of LEO's throughout the state.

Anyone can go to YouTube and see the actions of LEO's where accidental discharges (AD) happens in the performance of their duties. Why is it that a well-trained, armed citizen is more of a risk to the public than a "supposedly well-trained LEO"?

Most of us take our firearms, safety and shooting, seriously. Some of us have even been trained in the military. We are just as much a help to prevent crime, as a LEO. In fact, at my last reading, any Alabama citizen has the right to effect an arrest on someone committing a felony (citizens arrest). You can't do this on a misdeamor, so you better know the difference.

Maybe it would help if we had badges we could put next to our weapons that would ease the conscience of the average citizen. Maybe a golden or silver badge with the words, Open Carry Citizen, would calm their fears.

What do you think?

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I'm more concerned with the 'on-purpose' discharges I've seen on YouTube. For instance, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tuAhoTPXEk ) Unless you want to claim an officer drawing a gun and shooting a man on the ground in handcuffs was accidental. Negligent, maybe, but definitely not accidental.

Honestly, though? I think a badge is a horrible idea because 1) It reinforces the stereotype of gun owners as vigilantes, and 2) I would imagine that even LEO that are okay with (or at least not vocal against) OC would be put off by us running around with fake badges on.

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Thanks for the reply. I can certainly see your point.

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AL Ranger wrote:

Maybe it would help if we had badges we could put next to our weapons that would ease the conscience of the average citizen. Maybe a golden or silver badge with the words, Open Carry Citizen, would calm their fears.

What do you think?

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I think that is not a good idea. While it might cause the public to be "less alarmed" it comes dangerously close to Impersonating A Peace Officer (13A-10-11), a felony.

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Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.

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Kind of corny, but what about if you pinned your pistol permit in the same fashion as a badge? Sure it would have your personal info on it, but then again maybe it would work the same way? I don't know.

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AL Ranger wrote:

Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.

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And if you think LEOs are unfriendly because you have a gun, start walking around with a badge and you're going to find you need a friend behind you with a video camera for the confrontation. Your civil rights will be violated in a most egregious manner and if there isn't a camera rolling....

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Kirbinator wrote:

AL Ranger wrote:

Yeah, I thought about that. Animal Control are also authorized by the state to carry firearms. I wonder if they have badges for their jobs. I don't think they would classify Animal Control as Peace Officers but I know what you mean. Even though you don't claim to be one, wearing a badge would send that image.

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And if you think LEOs are unfriendly because you have a gun, start walking around with a badge and you're going to find you need a friend behind you with a video camera for the confrontation. Your civil rights will be violated in a most egregious manner and if there isn't a camera rolling....

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Don't carry a police badge. That will always be a bad idea. Why not Open Carry with the badge below? It's legal. It's like $20 on a website I found. LOL

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That's what I was thinking about. I was in a Huntsville Wal-Mart yesterday and saw an Alabama A&M University security officer, uniform, gun, handcuffsand gun belt, etc. either shopping or walking around. He was talking to people, friends I guess. He's campus security, not a state peace officer.

Most people are scared to see a gun without a badge. That is what causes the people to call the cops, run off to management in stores and restaurants, etc. The A&M cop had no authority outside the University campus, just as a Park Ranger has no authority outside the Park or an animal control officer has outside the performance of his job.

According to Alabama state law, every citizen has the right to effect a citizens arrest upon seeing or having knowledge of a felony, not misdeamors. We have legal powers of arrest and in the wording of the Alabama Constitution (article 1 secton 26, "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state" we are de facto peace officers.

A badge would set aside fears and if it is legal to wear a badge to properly identify yourself as a legal OC citizen, then why not do it. An animal control officer probably has a badge and no one checks to see just what king of "policeman" he happens to be. When they ask him he just says I work for the state and its legal. We can do the same thing. If the get close, see the "Law-Abiding Citizen" badge and ask about it, according to the law, its legal.It may upset the police, if they want to consider themselves "special citizens" but they have to obey the laws wheteher they like it or not.

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There is a permit carry holder you can place around you neck and wear under your shirt as the police do with their ID's. I think the best way to do that is to create an Open Carry ID with your name, address, pertinent info and a photo. That way you have a picture ID ready and simply place your CWP, if you have one, behind it. If the cops approach you, or see you get out of your car with a weapon, you can have some ID handy with your picture on it.

The weather is getting warmer, the idea of open carry is better than trying to hide a bulky firearm and extra ammo. The easier we can make this for ourselves, the police and the Alabama population, the better it is!

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AL Ranger wrote:

That's what I was thinking about. I was in a Huntsville Wal-Mart yesterday and saw an Alabama A&M University security officer, uniform, gun, handcuffsand gun belt, etc. either shopping or walking around. He was talking to people, friends I guess. He's campus security, not a state peace officer.

Most people are scared to see a gun without a badge. That is what causes the people to call the cops, run off to management in stores and restaurants, etc. The A&M cop had no authority outside the University campus, just as a Park Ranger has no authority outside the Park or an animal control officer has outside the performance of his job.

According to Alabama state law, every citizen has the right to effect a citizens arrest upon seeing or having knowledge of a felony, not misdeamors. We have legal powers of arrest and in the wording of the Alabama Constitution (article 1 secton 26, "That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state" we are de facto peace officers.

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Double check that before you consider testing his authority. In Alabama, a peace officer anywhere in the state may arrest you for breaking the law, but the charges have to be filed in the jurisdiction that the deviation was committed in. UAH, UAB, UA, etc. receive their charter from the legislature as well, which grants them State of Alabama license plates. If you require further justification, consider that UAB has no fixed campus. And that a state trooper also has State of Alabama license plates.

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I don't plan on testing anybody's authority. I wouldn't do that. I was just making the point about how most people understand law enforcement types and guns. I have no problem with state and local LEO's or armed security (universities, Wells Fargo, etc.) The more involved in law enforcement, the better. The large criminal presence in most of our large cities is because law enforcement tried to do the job by themselves and found out that doesn't work.

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Here's another thought I got from someone else when I bounced it off of them. If you sense that people are getting agitated by your presence, or you find out the police have been called, grab your cellphone and call 911 and inform them that you're the one that the report has been made about and that you're legally armed.

The first person who calls is generally trusted.

"Be the first one to call 911 tell them the guy with the gun is the good guy - make them tell it to the cops."

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AL Ranger wrote:

The large criminal presence in most of our large cities is because law enforcement tried to do the job by themselves and found out that doesn't work.

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And due to the requirements of the job, Birmingham was forced to lower the bar. Hence, we have armed thugs driving around in police cars. But don't expect the off-duty cop in uniform doing security work to respond to any crime committed in his presence.

I should get off my soap box. It's a difficult job to do, and unfortunately, we're more likely to wind up in contact with LEOs due to the exercise our rights.

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The only problem with OC or CC is that many people do it to be different or stand out in a crowd. They don't take their responsibilities seriously. As you stated, we have many new officers because the bar was lowered which makes this dangerous for the cities and the citizens. Many of us have been trained, either through years of shooting and/or the military or have police backgrounds. The armed citizen, the Neighborhood Watch programs, armed security forces and the LEO's can really work together. But, we have those among us who see their guns as an excuse to show off or prove that they are special or more important. Those are the ones that cast a bad shadow across the rest of us. Even police officers have to beware of the rogue cop going "postal" and it getting caught on camera.

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Badges are pretty much always a bad idea IMO. I've seen many an old thread in other states talk about OC badges and they're pretty convincing that it's just not the best way to divert negative attention. Dressin' up a bit, being confident and cool-headed, these are the ways of the jedi.

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Apparently OC with assault rifles doesn't raise an eyebrow in this town.

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AL Ranger wrote:

The only problem with OC or CC is that many people do it to be different or stand out in a crowd. They don't take their responsibilities seriously. As you stated, we have many new officers because the bar was lowered which makes this dangerous for the cities and the citizens. Many of us have been trained, either through years of shooting and/or the military or have police backgrounds. The armed citizen, the Neighborhood Watch programs, armed security forces and the LEO's can really work together. But, we have those among us who see their guns as an excuse to show off or prove that they are special or more important. Those are the ones that cast a bad shadow across the rest of us. Even police officers have to beware of the rogue cop going "postal" and it getting caught on camera.

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You just hit the nail on the head. There are those people out there trying to "show off" or "be cool" because they have a gun. That type of "showboating" hurts everyone else. When I was a little kid I thought it would be "cool" to have a gun and OC like cops, but once I grew up, matured, and took on more responsibility, I decided to carry for the protection of myself, my family, and my community. I OC, not just because it's my right to do so, but because it gets so hot in the summer and I don't feel comfortable leaving my protection at home just so I can wear summer clothes.

You made made a good point. Thanx for the input!

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Jonathon Norris wrote:

Badges are pretty much always a bad idea IMO. I've seen many an old thread in other states talk about OC badges and they're pretty convincing that it's just not the best way to divert negative attention. Dressin' up a bit, being confident and cool-headed, these are the ways of the jedi.

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I agree. The point is that we are ordinary citizens, going about our daily business, exercising a right as routine as speaking our minds. Badges would make us look like attention-seekers. I hope none of us are that.

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...and yes, tank tops and martian antennae ARE "dressing up a bit" for me. LOL