Law Enforcement Open Carry Never Challenged

imported post

I was going to suggest that someone bring up a fact at the city council meeting; that all of the Birmingham police officers who are working security in bars are carrying a city-owned, city-issued firearm to a private job, in a place that serves alcohol.

Then I found out we don't have a law against that. Or open-carry where alcohol is served. Or concealed carry, with a concealed weapons permit.

Not that you'd want to carry in a bar, unless you're trained to be able to disarm anyone who would disarm you.

imported post

Kirbinator wrote:

Not that you'd want to carry in a bar, unless you're trained to be able to disarm anyone who would disarm you.

Click to expand...

This also further assumes that the bouncer understands law and asks you politely not to come in again.

imported post

Alabama Attorney General Opinion 2007-054 says:

[Government Officials, to wit.: Animal Control Officers] must Carry a Sidearm as would any other Citizen, that is, in compliance with Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-73.

Mr. Troy King, as Attorney General, and Ms. Brenda S. Smith, as Chief Legal Opinion Assistant

imported post

Cowboy,

I have been a Security Professional for over 23 years and have to say that I can't disagree with you more. A Security professional, or guard as you state, will only be in uniform only while on duty. While on duty, on the way to or from the place of duty is all fine and good. However, you will likely NEVER see a Security professional who is not on duty wearing a badge while in civilian clothes. The only time that I have done this was when I was actually working for a company and was in plain clothes and had my badge worn on my belt. Even then, I had to have a letter from my company stating that I was working plain clothes and that was my only protection from any law suit that I was impersonating or trying to impersonate an LEO.

There have been several persons arrested just for wearing a badge and charges have been upheld for impersonating an LEO. My thoughts on this is to just not take the chance. And just for info sake, you don't have to act like an LEO to be accused of impersonating one.

Just my .02

Click to expand...

Bagent, My post stated that security guards or professionals as you state, are not duly sworn officers of the state. But yet they wear badges. There is no law in Alabama stating that you cannot wear a badge. Now what you are doing or the intent you have when wearing the badge could get you in trouble. It would be interesting to see the facts of those you say have been arrested for just wearing a badge. Post some facts. I am willing to bet your 2 cents that they were acting in a suspicious way when arrested for wearing a badge. Maybe the badge stated something to the effect of local leo or something to that effect and not lets say, concealed carry permit/law abiding OCer.

I was at the local grocery store the other day. There was a car there that I am willing to bet was a former police cruiser. It had ham radio plates though, but the antennas, spotlight, darkened windowsand low profile rims. The people inside were wearing tactical looking clothing. Maybe I should have called the LEO to have them checked out because they looked to me like they were impersonating an officer?

imported post

No. Take a few pictures and sendthem to the fine folks at Hamsexy.com and let embarrassment weed him out. And don't forget to take the pictures with a high-res camera so the callsign/license plate is visible.

As for possible impersonation... Just let it be. The cops will give that individual a hard enough time over time and he'll either change his ways, or he is a cop.

imported post

Oh, I know. I had no intentions of calling the PO PO. I just looked and laughed, just like if i were to see someone trying to prove their worth with a $20 badge.

imported post

There are some incredibly misguided individuals who, for one reason or another, got an amateur radio license and/or bought an old police car.

imported post

Kirbinator, I did not realize there was anything funnier than people of walmart until I googled hamsexy.com. I thought you were just making it up. LOL

I have my ham license. It was for military promotion points. I bought a 2 meter handy talky but after meeting some of the hammies, realized it wasn't for me. LOL, I usually run my radios not so legal anyway.

Thanks for guiding me to my new funny website!

imported post

Glad I could do my part.

On the other hand, feel free to make the call. If the police check the individual out and determine that Impersonating has occurred, that's a felony. Usually, someone else will actually impersonate an officer and commit a crime. This causes the individual who hasn't committed a crime to become "a person of interest." After enough times interacting with the police, the individual will determine that they DON'T want to be a person of interest, and take steps to that end.

Yes, welcome to HamSexy. You'll find new words in your lexicon that you didn't know existed, like "foamer," "sparky", "whacker," and "vollie."

imported post

I am a armed security guard and after work ill go to Walmart or a gas station still in uniform and armed and no problem, when I'm in street clothes AND OC that's when I get stared at And questioned

imported post

Excellent point. I observed an individual doing the same the other day, except in the employ of an armored car service.

imported post

"If OC is dangerous for citizens, why isn't it dangerous for LEO's?"

Oh, don't you know? The 15 minutes or so of firearms 'training' they get that consists of 'point it over there and yank on the dangly bit' transforms them into supermen 'only ones.' They are like so totally trained and stuff!

Obviously that 15 minutes is way more powerful than the lifetime of almost daily self-imposed training that the average gun owner has...

Civilian Gun Owners are all stupid, drunken, toothless rednecks with an ego problem because of their small penises. The same could never be said of toothless Meth dealing Cops



who hate seeing citizens steal their thunder and make their penises look small by showing that it's no big deal and anyone can do it....

[/sarcasm]

The 'training' bit always comes up. It's brutally asinine and we all know it.

imported post

Aside from the fact that OC is apparently legal here in AL,
the majority of us also pay for a CC permit. I have a suggestion.
Why not give the state of AL the task of issuing a CC/OC permit.
They could perfom the background check and issue the permit
just as the sherrifs offices do. Let's say $30 per year, $15 to the state,
$15 to your county of residence. This way both entities
collect revenue and we as citizens get what we want. I may be wrong
but it just seemed to me that it would be a win win scenario.

imported post

Nota win win scenario....

1) Alabama is a "may issue" not a "shall issue" state. They can take your permit when they want and then all your rights would be gone if they "permitted OC".

2) I will not pay for a "permit" to open carry. CC is a privilege and OC is a right. Why do you want to make both a privilege?

3) That's a terrible idea....


4) I pay $7.50 for my CC permit. Why would I want to pay $30 for something I get for free? OC is a right. I won't pay $22.50 extra for a right. That's makes no sense

imported post

Hollowpoint38 wrote:

2) I will not pay for a "permit" to open carry. CC is a privilege and OC is a right. Why do you want to make both a privilege?

I'm sorry, Hollowpoint, but I consider "ownership and carry" to be my right. How I do it, OC or CC, should be left up to me depending upon the criteria of my agenda and the weather. There should be no reason for us to pay $5-$20 for doing concealed what we can already do open and in public. It's the concept of freedom, liberty and rights that needs to be reasserted in the public forum. Concealed carry was initially seen as "evil" and only certain people needed to be "excused" from the evil practice. Today, CC is more the norm and OC is seen to be "evil or unwarranted". We are trying to re-educate the American public to see guns as "normal" and we need to be able to OP or CC as we deem necessary in the situations we find ourselves in. Just my opinion.[/color]

imported post

I do not see laws against concealing weapons as restricting the right to carry. I think the AL SC nailed it when they said that the State could not ban both OC and CC and they they tended toward OC.

So, while some might say that OC is the right and CC is the State-licensed privilege, they probably could more accurately say that carrying is the right and concealing is the state-licensed privilege.

Either way one says it, a license to OC would be infringing on the RKBA, turning it into a privilege.

imported post

NO!!
Better to remove the vehicle carry code, and eliminate the need for permits at all.
Then those interstate travelers can beg permission to travel outside of America.
And the rest of us can remove ourselves from the federal hit list completely.

imported post

I believe that the requirement for a permit to carry in a car to be a violation of the RKBA because, in today's world, one cannot practically OC without being able to OC in a car.

However, I continue to maintain that licensing CC is reasonable. Such does not infringe on the right to carry. It simply categorizes hiding a weapon from public view while one is in public as a privilege.

As a matter of fact, if the law emphasized that the license was not to carry the weapon, but to conceal it, it would make the legality of OC clearer.