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Thread: NY cop in AZ just pissed me off

  1. #1
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    Ok i'm at a MetLife function here in your great state, i love it here!
    OCed for the first time today for breakfast, no issues, then i went to a meeting thing ans some guy gets a little frazzeled over my gun. Asks me why i feel i need it, and makes me cover it. My father spoke with him, turns out he is a retired detective from NY. Tells me i camt carry at all because the companie has a no weapons policy. What is AZ law on this? What can i do? This guy couldn't even figure out how i got it here on a jet. But what truly pissed me off is when he told me i had to put it in the safe, and proceeds to instruct me that i absolutly must stoor the ammo in a seperate place yada yada yada. Any advice would be great.

    And again, I am in love with AZ

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    Lest the place was posted no firearms you can carry. I for one would have told that NY Dick to go back home. Once you covered unless you had a CCW you would have been illegal

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    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Arizona is pretty clear on these things. OC is perfectly legal, with the usual restrictions, i.e. no schools, gub'mint buildings, and businesses with 'No Firearms' signs cleary posted. However, for the sake of propriety, if this is a business function, you might be better served by leaving your sidearm in your hotel, or wherever it is you're staying. Just for job security that is.

    And the 'leave the gun in a safe with the ammo separate' thing is total BS. Tell Mr. NY to research AZ law if he's gonna tell people what they can and cannot do.

    AZ sure as hell aint NY.

    BTW, I think I just finished watching a Youtube of you getting hassled by MI police on your bike for OC with a CCW... what a load of crap. They had no legal right to hold you.


    Edit: And yes, Arizona is great. I'm (hopefully) moving there within the next couple of weeks. I love Arizona, I love the freedoms you guys have, and I love your governor! I'm from California by way of Colorado and you guys have a hell of a state!

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    lostone1413 wrote:
    Lest the place was posted no firearms you can carry. I for one would have told that NY Dick to go back home. Once you covered unless you had a CCW you would have been illegal
    This.

    A) just because someone says they are a retired peace officer doesn't mean they ARE.

    B) Was this "MetLife function" in a hotel, or at a MetLife corporate branch and in a MetLife owned building? If it was a hotel, I can pretty much guarantee you they were not posted as a hotel room counts as your home and is covered under the Castle Doctrine language.

    C) Concealing in public without a permit is a crime; keep this in mind. Now if you have a permit from another state that is recognized in AZ you are good to go.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    lostone1413 wrote:
    Lest the place was posted no firearms you can carry. I for one would have told that NY Dick to go back home. Once you covered unless you had a CCW you would have been illegal
    This.

    A) just because someone says they are a retired peace officer doesn't mean they ARE.

    B) Was this "MetLife function" in a hotel, or at a MetLife corporate branch and in a MetLife owned building? If it was a hotel, I can pretty much guarantee you they were not posted as a hotel room counts as your home and is covered under the Castle Doctrine language.

    C) Concealing in public without a permit is a crime; keep this in mind. Now if you have a permit from another state that is recognized in AZ you are good to go.
    What he said, in fact I think hotels are even exempt from the no carry where alcohol is served for consumption on premises, though I have to double check if it extends outside of your hotel room. Carry on and tell the NY Dick to take a long walk off a short pier.

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    Dahwg wrote:
    mFonz77 wrote:
    lostone1413 wrote:
    Lest the place was posted no firearms you can carry. I for one would have told that NY Dick to go back home. Once you covered unless you had a CCW you would have been illegal
    This.

    A) just because someone says they are a retired peace officer doesn't mean they ARE.

    B) Was this "MetLife function" in a hotel, or at a MetLife corporate branch and in a MetLife owned building? If it was a hotel, I can pretty much guarantee you they were not posted as a hotel room counts as your home and is covered under the Castle Doctrine language.

    C) Concealing in public without a permit is a crime; keep this in mind. Now if you have a permit from another state that is recognized in AZ you are good to go.
    What he said, in fact I think hotels are even exempt from the no carry where alcohol is served for consumption on premises, though I have to double check if it extends outside of your hotel room. Carry on and tell the NY Dick to take a long walk off a short pier.
    I should like to know if that extends throughout the entire resort I am staying at. while there is drinking, I am drinking and I do not carry then. the rest of the time, I would like to know there is no issue. I am here with some one else, they do not know that I work here.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    The relevant sections of the Arizona Revised Statues are going to be in Title 13, Chapter 31 (google it). I can find nothing. I know hotels are not on the "NO" list. As long as you are not drinking while carrying (criminal), then you should be good to go.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Regular Member Alamo Jack's Avatar
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    Lets say, for instance, you have a CCW from your home state. I believe AZ recognizes most other states, if not all. CC is allowed in an establishment that serves alcohol, provided you have a CCW, and are not drinking.

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    Yes, AZ recognizes all other licenses/permits, incl. non-resident ones. And CCW in restaurants bars is legal provided they are not posted both a) at the entrance and b) next to the liquor license with AZ DPS-approved signs.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    The relevant sections of the Arizona Revised Statues are going to be in Title 13, Chapter 31 (google it). I can find nothing. I know hotels are not on the "NO" list. As long as you are not drinking while carrying (criminal), then you should be good to go.
    Nope. That's the criminal code, the liquor license code will contain the relevant sections when it comes to carry in establishments that serve liquor.

    ARS 4-229. Licenses; handguns; posting of notice
    A. A person with a permit issued pursuant to section 13-3112 or who meets the criteria specified in section 13-3102, subsection D, paragraph 1 or 2 may carry a concealed handgun on the premises of a licensee who is an on-sale retailer unless the licensee posts a sign that clearly prohibits the possession of weapons on the licensed premises. The sign shall conform to the following requirements:
    1. Be posted in a conspicuous location accessible to the general public and immediately adjacent to the liquor license posted on the licensed premises.
    2. Contain a pictogram that shows a firearm within a red circle and a diagonal red line across the firearm.
    3. Contain the words, "no firearms allowed pursuant to A.R.S. section 4-229".
    B. A person shall not carry a firearm on the licensed premises of an on-sale retailer if the licensee has posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section.
    C. It is an affirmative defense to a violation of subsection B of this section if:
    1. The person was not informed of the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section prior to the violation.
    2. Any one or more of the following applies:
    (a) At the time of the violation the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section had fallen down.
    (b) At the time of the violation the person was not a resident of this state.
    (c) The licensee had posted the notice prescribed in subsection A of this section not more than thirty days prior to the violation.
    D. The department of liquor licenses and control shall prepare the signs required by this section and make them available at no cost to licensees.
    E. The signs required by this section shall be composed of block, capital letters printed in black on white laminated paper at a minimum weight of one hundred ten pound index. The lettering and pictogram shall consume a space at least six inches by nine inches. The letters comprising the words "no firearms allowed" shall be at least three-fourths of a vertical inch and all other letters shall be at least one-half of a vertical inch.
    F. This section does not prohibit a person who possesses a handgun from entering the licensed premises for a limited time for the specific purpose of either:
    1. Seeking emergency aid.
    2. Determining whether a sign has been posted pursuant to subsection A of this section.

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    Wow that is some great information. Thanks guys!

    Today the wife and i went to the desert rifge mall. We were ine for about an hour untill a mall cop came up to me and told me that it was private property and unless i was a cop i could not have my fire arm on me.
    I informed him that i did not drive there and that i was waiting for a ride. I also told him that i am military. But mor importantly i had no means of travel. He asked me if i could conceal, and being that i do have a CPL i abliged him, he said that since i am military, asng as i cover it i am good. So far kinda dissapointed in my oc experences here. Still wan to move here though. Going to start checking out property in the area.

    Let me know your thoughts. I would appreciate it. Oh, and i couldn't find.a sign to save my life.

    Also if i am reading that correctly, because i am not a resident of the state, does that mean i can't be charged?

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    Kimberguy, here is the deal on malls: I don't know which ones or how many, but a LOT, especially in the valley, are owned by WestCor and they are very anti-gun. Next time you go in one (I personally don't spend my money in malls and let retailers know why), look INSIDE the sliding doors and you should see a very, very tiny sign with a bunch of regulations, etc... incl. "no firearms." Big crock IMO, and definitely does not carry the weight of law as it is not a legal sign. However, do not inform the mall of this or they will fix it. Better to just conceal if you have to go in there.

    Anyway, glad you worked it out; anyone can be charged, regardless of residence. Osama bin Laden could come in OCing and be charged (example only - I think something else would happen . Anyway, glad you have a reciprocal CWP/CCW, and other than malls and a few anti- businesses, you should be good to go most places. Especially in southern AZ - we know how dangerous life near the border can be.
    Carry on!
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    Wow that is some great information. Thanks guys!

    Today the wife and i went to the desert rifge mall. We were ine for about an hour untill a mall cop came up to me and told me that it was private property and unless i was a cop i could not have my fire arm on me.
    I informed him that i did not drive there and that i was waiting for a ride. I also told him that i am military. But mor importantly i had no means of travel. He asked me if i could conceal, and being that i do have a CPL i abliged him, he said that since i am military, asng as i cover it i am good. So far kinda dissapointed in my oc experences here. Still wan to move here though. Going to start checking out property in the area.

    Let me know your thoughts. I would appreciate it. Oh, and i couldn't find.a sign to save my life.

    Also if i am reading that correctly, because i am not a resident of the state, does that mean i can't be charged?
    Correct. You can't be charged under the premise that you didn't know, but you can be trespassed out.

    While AZ is generally OC friendly it is pretty well known by locals that most Malls are not. It's all good, mostly just avoid the malls.

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    Dahwg wrote:
    Correct. You can't be charged under the premise that you didn't know, but you can be trespassed out.
    Can you explain what you mean here? If, say, Iowa has a state law saying you cannot walk a dog on the sidewalk, and you go there and do it (ignorant of the law), you could still get charged. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    Dahwg wrote:
    Correct. You can't be charged under the premise that you didn't know, but you can be trespassed out.
    Can you explain what you mean here? If, say, Iowa has a state law saying you cannot walk a dog on the sidewalk, and you go there and do it (ignorant of the law), you could still get charged. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    Private property is just that. If the owners/managers/caretakers prohibit firearms... you can be trespassed off the property if you're carrying.

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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    mFonz77 wrote:
    Dahwg wrote:
    Correct. You can't be charged under the premise that you didn't know, but you can be trespassed out.
    Can you explain what you mean here? If, say, Iowa has a state law saying you cannot walk a dog on the sidewalk, and you go there and do it (ignorant of the law), you could still get charged. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    Private property is just that. If the owners/managers/caretakers prohibit firearms... you can be trespassed off the property if you're carrying.
    Ah understood. Semantic issue.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    One major problem in Arizona is most large indoor Malls are owned/operated by a concern located outside Arizona, usually in Kommyforyna or in that gang infested no gun zone schitt hole alongside Lake Michigan, where dead persons have voting rights.

    These out of state brain dead anti's feel what's good for their region should extend into Arizona, so at key Mall entrances signs are posted describing a "Code Of Conduct" list to remind children and adults of all ages what is expected of them.

    Far down the list is posted "No Weapons" however this does not extend to weapons such as FEET or HANDS or CUTLERY WARE being sold inside.

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    Asks me why i feel i need it, and makes me cover

    Well it is interesting that you would OC at a meeting... was this a business meeting? If so, it was very unprofessional of you to OC.

    On the surface it seems like you were OC'ing because you could... sometimes you have to ask yourself if you should.

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    1FASTC4 wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    *Asks me why i feel i need it, and makes me cover
    *

    Well it is interesting that you would OC at a meeting... was this a business meeting? If so, it was very unprofessional of you to OC.

    On the surface it seems like you were OC'ing because you could... sometimes you have to ask yourself if you should.
    I oc when ever i am not in a suit, i had not planned on attending any meetings, it was last minute happening to be in the area when my father decided we should check it out.

    I oc, nothing else

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    While not a violation of Az State Law, if you are at a company function, on company time and they have a strict weapons policy, you may have violated company policy. If so, your company could take action against you, regardless of state law

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    As with many urban areas, many people in Phoenix moved there from somewhere else, where open carry was not legal or common. We have been working for decades to keep open carry socially legitimized in Arizona. We are doing much better than most states, but it is an ongoing battle.

    I applaud your open carrying, but it is worth while paying attention to the many cautions that other posters have made. When you are on private property, the owner of the property gets to set the rules. If you cannot exclude people from your property it is no longer private.

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    mFonz77 wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    mFonz77 wrote:
    Dahwg wrote:
    Correct. You can't be charged under the premise that you didn't know, but you can be trespassed out.
    Can you explain what you mean here? If, say, Iowa has a state law saying you cannot walk a dog on the sidewalk, and you go there and do it (ignorant of the law), you could still get charged. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    Private property is just that.* If the owners/managers/caretakers prohibit firearms... you can be trespassed off the property if you're carrying.
    Ah understood. Semantic issue.
    Well kind of a semantic issue. The exemption for carry in an establishment that serves liquor is actually codified. It basically says if you're from out of state you get one free warning, we natives don't get that (unless of course the sign has just recently been posted or we're going in to see if the sign is legally posted).

    As amended it's about the dumbest law on the books- for that you can thank the NRA. Sometimes they just need to stay out of the sausage making. For local concerns AZCDL does a much better job.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    Was the NY Cop an official in control of the meeting or just another attendee?

    There is a big difference.
    If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance.

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    TOF wrote:
    Was the NY Cop an official in control of the meeting or just another attendee?

    There is a big difference.
    honestly couldn't tell you, not sure.

    I just got home a few minutes ago.... definalty going to be trying to convince the wife to move out there soon.

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    Business that are open to the public CAN NOT tell you to take your gun off.
    Freedom isn't free, but this is America! We will find a way to outsource it and save some money - Jeremy

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