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Thread: Carrying at work.

  1. #1
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    I was just curious if anyone open carries while at work? What kind of work is it? What your boss/other employees/customers think of you carrying? I know my company has a very srict no weapon policy and I am not sure if I would want to bring a gun with me there. I'm just wondering.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Have temp job in MN. Have MN carry permit. Have permission from boss to CC.


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    junkie wrote:
    I was just curious if anyone open carries while at work?
    I work in a government building. So the answer is 'no way in H E double hockey sticks'.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Company policy I cannot even have it in my vehicle if I park on company property.

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    mine stays with me while at work , in my tool box loaded :P I'm a mechanic for a major chain my boss don't care and 2 other guys bring me there guns to borrow or clean for them lol most of the time there riffles or shotguns and stay in there lockers

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    Being self-employed sure is nice when it comes to being able to follow company policy, My policy is to be armed at all times unless otherwise prohibited by law.

  7. #7
    McX
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    i carry, and we allow open carry besides. customer don't seem to care, criminals don't seem to like it though. not unusual to see an open carrier or two around the shop.


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    akito wrote:
    mine stays with me while at work , in my tool box loaded :P I'm a mechanic for a major chain my boss don't care....
    akito,
    If
    you are in Wisconsin and anybody but your boss finds out about it you will find yourself in a sh*tstorm, because you are keeping a concealed weapon. Since this forum is read by lots of people, including law enforcement, I'd unload, encase, and get it the h*ll out of there!

    Dave

    Dave
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    Aw, now, Dave, you're trying to sound lawyerly. But that's OK, we got it.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    County Prosecutor wrote:
    Aw, now, Dave, you're trying to sound lawyerly. But that's OK, we got it.
    Since you just joined up yesterday I will cut you some slack; it's called "Watching each other's backs".... Do you have a name?

    Dave
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  11. #11
    McX
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    dave, that point is true, but still, from all the way back from 'the day' to present, just about every mechanic i have known, or know has a special drawer on his tool box for the defensive tool of his trade. when i was in auto school, even the instructors spoke of their shop encounters, and how they had to go to that drawer for a defensive situation. i'm not saying it's right or wrong, all i am doing is saying.

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    Welcome Mr. Prosecutor. A touch of authority is well needed here.

    Dave, do you ask everyone's name? That doesn't seem very welcoming.

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    davegran wrote:
    akito wrote:
    mine stays with me while at work , in my tool box loaded :P I'm a mechanic for a major chain my boss don't care....
    akito,
    If
    you are in Wisconsin and anybody but your boss finds out about it you will find yourself in a sh*tstorm, because you are keeping a concealed weapon. Since this forum is read by lots of people, including law enforcement, I'd unload, encase, and get it the h*ll out of there!

    Dave
    Dave,

    He is not carrying concealed, it is in his tool box. Second in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

  14. #14
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,

    He is not carrying concealed, it is in his tool box....
    I didn't say he was carrying concealed, I said he was keeping a concealed weapon.

    941.23Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except
    a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
    weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    History....
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).


    Just my uneducated opinion.

    Dave

    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Another thought, Dave, is that the County Prosecutor may just be another of the legion of sockpuppet gentlemen now signing up, the good captain and his alter ego, my Rhinoceros...just sayin', ya' know, like...

    We know of 'members' from Green Bay that would like the respect an attorney without the commitment of education and responsibility.

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    davegran wrote:
    akito wrote:
    mine stays with me while at work , in my tool box loaded :P I'm a mechanic* for a major chain my boss don't care....
    akito,
    If
    you are in Wisconsin and anybody but your boss finds out about it you will find yourself in a sh*tstorm, because you are keeping a concealed weapon. Since this forum is read by lots of people, including law enforcement, I'd unload, encase, and get it the h*ll out of there!

    Dave
    Dave,

    He is not carrying concealed, it is in his tool box.* Second in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.)* I can carry concealed on my property, and unless*someone can prove* otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    +100

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    davegran wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,

    He is not carrying concealed, it is in his tool box....
    I didn't say he was carrying concealed, I said he was keeping a concealed weapon.

    941.23Carrying concealed weapon. Any person except
    a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous
    weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    History....
    To “go armed” does not require going anywhere. The elements for a violation of
    s. 941.23 are: 1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant’s person or within reach;
    2) the defendant is aware of the weapon’s presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.
    State v. Keith, 175 Wis. 2d 75, 498 N.W.2d 865 (Ct. App. 1993).


    Just my uneducated opinion.

    Dave
    Where is that exception for vehicle transportation, right next to the private property exception? Oh, I forgot

    +10100

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    McX wrote:
    dave, that point is true, but still, from all the way back from 'the day' to present, just about every mechanic i have known, or know has a special drawer on his tool box for the defensive tool of his trade. when i was in auto school, even the instructors spoke of their shop encounters, and how they had to go to that drawer for a defensive situation. i'm not saying it's right or wrong, all i am doing is saying.
    +1

    sometimes we just need to err on the side of caution and self preservation.....even if it means going against what some of man's laws deem innapropriate. If i am working in a very bad area, I'd rather know I can protect myself and ask for forgiveness later than end up dead and not be able to ask for anythig again. As is said, "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission."

  19. #19
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,
    ....in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    Would you please cite the appropriate statute and case law that makes this possible?

    Thanks,
    Dave

    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  20. #20
    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    davegran wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,
    ....in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    Would you please cite the appropriate statute and case law that makes this possible?

    Thanks,
    Dave

    Article I, § 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution, adopted in 1998, states: “[t]he people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.”

    In State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328 (2003), the Supreme Court of Wisconsin rejected an Art. I, § 25 challenge to Wis. Stat. § 941.23, which prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons. Although the court found that the state right to "bear arms" is a fundamental, individual right under Art. I, § 25, the court held that it is subject to reasonable restriction. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, ¶ 26, 264 Wis. 2d 520, ¶ 26, 665 N.W.2d 328, ¶ 26. Finding that section 941.23 is "a reasonable regulation on the time, place, and manner in which the right to bear arms may be exercised," the court upheld the statute. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, ¶ 28, 264 Wis. 2d 520, ¶ 28, 665 N.W.2d 328, ¶ 28.

    In a companion case to Cole, State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785 (2003), the supreme court carved out an exception to the prohibition on carrying concealed weapons under section 941.23. In Hamdan, defendant owned a convenience store in a high crime area and kept a handgun for protection. Law enforcement officers performing a routine investigation of defendant’s business license discovered the concealed firearm, confiscated it, and prosecuted defendant for violating section 941.23. Defendant argued that the ban on carrying concealed weapons was unconstitutional as applied to him because it interfered with his "right to bear arms" under Art. I, § 25.

    At the outset, the court emphasized that section 941.23 is constitutional and that the state may regulate firearms under its police power. State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 46, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 46, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 46. Furthermore, the court noted that "only if the public benefit in . . . exercise of the police power [to regulate firearms] is substantially outweighed by an individual’s need to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an otherwise valid restriction on that right be unconstitutional as applied." Id.

    Following an extensive review of statutory and case law from other jurisdictions pertaining to both the carrying of concealed weapons and the right to "bear arms," the court found that defendant had a constitutional right under Art. I, § 25 to "keep and bear arms for the lawful purpose of security at the time he carried his concealed weapon . . . ." and reversed the conviction. State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 84, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 84, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 84.

    The court noted that "[i]f the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for security is to mean anything, it must, as a general matter, permit a person to possess, carry, and sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of his private residence or privately operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within these premises." State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 68, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 68, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 68.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    davegran wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,
    ....in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    Would you please cite the appropriate statute and case law that makes this possible?

    Thanks,
    Dave
    I believe the case law you would be interested in is "Vegas", where it was determined if the persons need for self-defense outweighs the states need for prohibition of the manner of carry.
    Tough to prove unless you are involved in a defensive situation IMO

    In understandable English, you are prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon, unless a situation comes up where you are forced to use it in a defensive situation.
    It is the mother of all catch-22's!!



  22. #22
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    See also State
    v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328, 01−0350.
    A challenge on constitutional grounds of a prosecution for carrying a concealed
    weapon requires affirmative answers to the following before the defendant may raise
    the constitutional defense:

    1) under the circumstances, did the defendant’s interest in
    concealing the weapon to facilitate exercise of his or her right to keep and bear arms
    substantially outweigh the state’s interest in enforcing the concealed weapons stat-
    ute? and

    2) did the defendant conceal his or her weapon because concealment was the
    only reasonable means under the circumstances to exercise his or her right to bear
    arms? State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785, 01−0056.

    I don't see where it mentions anything about giving permission to somebody to CC on your property, nor does it say you can CC just because you feel like it. If you can answer the above two questions with a "Yes", then go for it.

    Dave

    Dave
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    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

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    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  23. #23
    McX
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    well, there is a 3rd alternative; if your uncomfortable with 'drawer carry', then mount your case on the side of your tool box, in plain view, and that should be ok, everyone in agreement on this suggestion? or then again, as our beloved governor said: Wear it on your hip

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,

    He is not carrying concealed, it is in his tool box. Second in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    This is the second time I have seen a post regarding a permission exception to the concealed prohibition. Please cite relevant statute or case law supporting this claim. To my knowledge carrying of a concealed firearm is strictly prohibited. The courts carved out some exceptions, but I can find no reference to a permission exception.

    Without citation, you are misleading the forum members.

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    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    davegran wrote:
    bigdaddy1 wrote:
    Dave,
    ....in Wisconsin concealed carry is legal on private property (assuming the owner/manager authorizes.) I can carry concealed on my property, and unlesssomeone can prove otherwise others can conceal carry on my property if/when given my express permission.
    Would you please cite the appropriate statute and case law that makes this possible?

    Thanks,
    Dave

    Article I, § 25 of the Wisconsin Constitution, adopted in 1998, states: “[t]he people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.”

    In State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, 264 Wis. 2d 520, 665 N.W.2d 328 (2003), the Supreme Court of Wisconsin rejected an Art. I, § 25 challenge to Wis. Stat. § 941.23, which prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons. Although the court found that the state right to "bear arms" is a fundamental, individual right under Art. I, § 25, the court held that it is subject to reasonable restriction. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, ¶ 26, 264 Wis. 2d 520, ¶ 26, 665 N.W.2d 328, ¶ 26. Finding that section 941.23 is "a reasonable regulation on the time, place, and manner in which the right to bear arms may be exercised," the court upheld the statute. State v. Cole, 2003 WI 112, ¶ 28, 264 Wis. 2d 520, ¶ 28, 665 N.W.2d 328, ¶ 28.

    In a companion case to Cole, State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, 264 Wis. 2d 433, 665 N.W.2d 785 (2003), the supreme court carved out an exception to the prohibition on carrying concealed weapons under section 941.23. In Hamdan, defendant owned a convenience store in a high crime area and kept a handgun for protection. Law enforcement officers performing a routine investigation of defendant’s business license discovered the concealed firearm, confiscated it, and prosecuted defendant for violating section 941.23. Defendant argued that the ban on carrying concealed weapons was unconstitutional as applied to him because it interfered with his "right to bear arms" under Art. I, § 25.

    At the outset, the court emphasized that section 941.23 is constitutional and that the state may regulate firearms under its police power. State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 46, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 46, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 46. Furthermore, the court noted that "only if the public benefit in . . . exercise of the police power [to regulate firearms] is substantially outweighed by an individual’s need to conceal a weapon in the exercise of the right to bear arms will an otherwise valid restriction on that right be unconstitutional as applied." Id.

    Following an extensive review of statutory and case law from other jurisdictions pertaining to both the carrying of concealed weapons and the right to "bear arms," the court found that defendant had a constitutional right under Art. I, § 25 to "keep and bear arms for the lawful purpose of security at the time he carried his concealed weapon . . . ." and reversed the conviction. State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 84, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 84, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 84.

    The court noted that "f the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for security is to mean anything, it must, as a general matter, permit a person to possess, carry, and sometimes conceal arms to maintain the security of his private residence or privately operated business, and to safely move and store weapons within these premises." State v. Hamdan, 2003 WI 113, ¶ 68, 264 Wis. 2d 433, ¶ 68, 665 N.W.2d 785, ¶ 68.
    You miss the point, counselor. The authority to extend the privilege of concealment to another is not within the privileges of the proprietor.

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